US 1st Limit Banned For Mythic Helya Exploit

[durrtygoodz]

fragnance posted one?

People who pose statements as questions are the fucking worst

[cFortyfive]

MFW degenerates call people cucks.

Degenerates. world first exploits. How retarded do you need to be.

Blizzard sets the rules for WoW, and currently they want to enforce more strictness. Nobody forces the guys to play, as you said they play for no gain, then why abuse cheats? What's there to gain? This is not some tongue in cheek question.
If you don't like the rules then why play in a game that they're enforced in? Heck, from reading the post from Exorsus I'd say he doesn't really like the game overall in its current state. This is 100% fine, I myself don't (for exactly the reasons he listed). But in no way this is an excuse to circumvent the rules in a race for world first kill (technically not first, but yeah), it is a reason to take a break/quit/go casual though. It would also be a much more effective protest if all/most top guilds did that in the same tier. But that's not going to happen.

The rules in this game has been bent at any time. Most people still remember atrimedes and exorsus mentioned a couple very basic other "exploits". There is no reason for any excuse because nothing egregious happened - a bug was used to gain a competitive edge and that's about it. There is no formal agreement around for the guilds to not use any bugs. This time around it came with a penalty and that's fair enough but people going full retard over it is pathetic.

[Leberman]

People who pose statements as questions are the fucking worst

here buddy:

[Defaulty]

lol that's awesome. Tried sneaking one pass blizz, "im sry i ddnt kno it wasn't okay to use glitches!" Just as bad as the people who get banned for botting.

Get caught, play innocent.

[dadev]

This time around it came with a penalty and that's fair enough but people going full retard over it is pathetic.

Can easily agree with this. It's something between Blizzard and those guilds. They took the risk, got caught, got stripped of the kill, loot and title + week ban. Retry next reset. Case closed. No need for excuses and justifications from members, or more accusations and smearing on forums.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

its not an idea... its something that happens with any company in the world, and used to happen with wow. When you release new software you do have people monitoring to make sure everything is fine.

In this case we are talking about a massive mmo that has a massive dev team and GM team and customer support team that works around the clock.

You think nihilum and dnt took 1 day to clear KT... you know how many time he was hotfixed until? How many hours the devs were actively monitoring.

You just never worked a day in your life thats why you don't get my point.

kt in classic? when there was less machines then there are today less guilds then there are today? less things that can go wrong cause less tech? less players in general to take up gm/support time? when it takes more less time to fix problems cause the problems are less complex? sure blizzard has also grown but so has every thing else that would make it unreasonable to put a ton of resources to have around the clock dev's/gm's watching the world first race. its not like theirs only a few guilds trying for world first or that there isn't tons and tons of other people using gm support around the clock for many other reasons.

if you think wow is the same as it was back in classic then you have been out of the loop for while as things grow its harder and harder to put a ton of resources catering to one part of the game around the clock even if that part only last for a week or 2 as every other part of the game has also grown a massive amount and take up more dev/gm time as well you might think the world first race is super important and should have a ton of resources throw at it but at the same time theirs millions of other players who don't and also need some of those resources.

but nice baseless insult that really helps your argument and doesn't mean you just look immature at all.

[Jotaux]

Sigh, the point is that the breath is supposed to continued to work as well? The idea was to skip that specific breath? Ergo it be the same as the crystal? The crystal staying after the fact did nothing btw, it was just something you ignored completely.

No that crystal disappeared but he would still spawn crystals afterward. You can go watch kill videos if you did not get the chance to experience the content first hand. Its not the same as the crystal in he slightest.

[Deleted]

I think it's sometimes motivated by exhaustion, people just wanting it to be over.

No, I think people are greedy. They want the best possible rank that they can get and abuse the fight as much as possible in order to kill the boss as fast as they can.
They are probably hoping Blizzard will just consider it as an "unintended" way of killing it, like with Ra-Den.

[Nize]

"Other guilds were doing it too"

Why do some people think it's fine to cheat if someone else does it first/as well...

Okay fine, quote one thing I said out of context. That'll help your argument. Anyway, my point there was there have been many cases in the past where people have found workarounds that could have been looked at as exploits. Example, BM monks in blackhand. Yet no punishment, instead they were rewarded by being one of the first guilds to get the kill. So, are you gonna risk losing one of the top slots?

In all things competition, pushing the envelope of what's legal within the rules is very commonplace. This time, maybe it went too far. But seriously, you're asking for a permanent ban. For THIS? Talk about excessive. People are so quick to see harsh punishment done to others. Especially when it doesn't affect you in any sort of way. To me personally, that's far worse than a group feeling that they found a flaw everyone else was doing when prior cases saw no repercussions - reaction being much worse than the original action.

[Deleted]

You're about 9 pages too late with this pathetic troll attempt

I am not attempting to troll, but your assumption of that says a lot about you though. It is just how I feel, we are talking about a world first attempt, no matter in what subject you look when it comes being first you will do whatever it takes. Like the Dutch who invented a new type of Iceskate, so they can remain the fastests, athletes who use performance enhancers. It is all about the win, it is not the participants fault that they are able to manipulate the game for their advantage. You can not blame them for seeing a chance and then taking it.

You try to code something as massive as WoW and do it without bugs (Hint: It's impossible).

Code this massive and complex ALWAYS has bugs, there's no avoiding that. Pretending it doesn't is just dumb. Blizzard is doing a surprisingly good job at keeping the bugs at bay, but sometimes a few sneak through (Especially on encounters that aren't tested fully/properly), which leads to situations like this.

No one is pretending, I am just saying that the fault does not lie with the player but with the people who made the encounter. It never should have made it into the game, but punishing them for it is just wrong.

[SirBeef]

I disagree. Blizzard shouldn't release content that allows exploits. Or you simply fix it and move on. Banning people? What nonsense.

Hard to tell if there is an exploit if no one finds one while testing and/or no one reports it like the saronite bomb exploit on Heroic LK where guilds knew about it but said nothing until afterwards. And sometimes there is not enough testers to find an exploit until you have the numbers that Live will bring you. Then again only if it is brought to their attention will then know.

[Vereesa]

From Scratch statement: http://www.fromscratch.gg/2016/11/23...rial-of-valor/

With the information and motives of these guilds out there now, I would honestly put the blame on Blizzard here. The bug was documented and reported well in advance to give Blizzard enough time to either fix or at least communicate about their intent of fixing it. I know from personal experience that Blizzard QA and other relevant personnel are staffed 24/7 during progress races (as evidenced by getting instant email replies from Watcher at 4 AM California time) in at least some capacity, and there should be little reason for a complete lack of response to the bug on their end.

Furthermore, the now suspended guilds were in quite a bit of a sticky situation; they'd come up with a divergent way of dealing with a mechanic and planned on executing that strategy throughout the encounter, but found out a crucial bug occurred in the last phase. At that point they were to either repeat the tactic and hope for the best, or adapt to a new, more difficult strategy, diminishing their ingenuity in coming up with the clearly more efficient strategy in the first place. Either way they'd be on the losing end, due to no fault of their own.

With the above said, however, I'm not familiar with the mechanics of the encounter and it seems at least a bit dubious why the breath would even need a target to complete casting.

[Deleted]

You can not blame them for seeing a chance and then taking it.

No one is pretending, I am just saying that the fault does not lie with the player but with the people who made the encounter. It never should have made it into the game, but punishing them for it is just wrong.

Except that the moment when you've (everyone) clicked the "Accept" button they've Accepted the Terms of Service. It is within Blizzards right to do whatever they want with their accounts.
We're paying for access to their services, they own it all.

[Mellomania]

With the above said, however, I'm not familiar with the mechanics of the encounter and it seems at least a bit dubious why the breath would even need a target to complete casting.

It aims at the player so you can aim it.
But i guess it could just be cast where the tank died to fix it?

[Deleted]

From Scratch whining and making excuses once again? Say it ain't so!

They exploited the clearly unintended AP bug, got caught and banned, then rather than learn their lesson they once again try and get away with breaking the rules. And yet they still bitch and moan rather than admit their own fault.

There's an ENORMOUS difference between ignoring a single mechanic, once, on Archimonde in exchange for a battle res. And deliberately bugging the boss out to remove the mechanic from the entire fight. The fact that they're trying to play the victim is pathetic. Especially when two superior guilds already managed to do it fairly.

[Shampro]

Nooope no matter how much you ex-top raiders (eg the Paragon people posting here, etc) try to defend them, they knew what they were doing they know what looks like an exploit and what doesn't. The excuse that Blizzard is inconsitant is such bogus, not to mention the encounter was completed legit by two guilds before them.

I aboslutely LOVE how salty From Scratch and Exorsus sound in thier ''statements'' like they would do it again ''if things don't go our way or X isn't fixed''. At the very least Limit said ''shit boys we own it up we fucked up''. These other two are a bit amusing.

[Dehooka]

updated with from scratch statement

[Deleted]

Yeah, I have more respect for Limit for having the decency to own up and admit their fault here. Compared to the endless French whine of "WAAAH, IT'S ALL BLIZZARDS FAULT"

[Deleted]

It seems like the top guilds plan to raid continuously until they kill it. So once they have done 150 legit attempts, people just want to stop, and the idea of exploiting becomes more attractive because some people in the group just want to stop playing lol.

Well then the question becomes, why did Method not do it? Did they know about it? And if they did why didn't they use it? I recon Method and Serenity just understood the consequences of exploit and elected not to use it because they knew it wouldn't work.

[Zoldor]

here buddy:

All I can say is why is his health bar so huge? Just seems excessive. So he can freak out more? lol What a weird UI choice, everything else, I get, his own health bar is just....Trump HYUUUUGE.