US 1st Limit Banned For Mythic Helya Exploit

[Supercool]

Nor acknowledged? What does that even mean?

That communication with players is very poor with this dev team and has been since they took over. It's understandable if fixing a bug takes a little time, but they could at least tweet out that they're aware of it.

[Struggle]

That communication with players is very poor with this dev team and has been since they took over. It's understandable if fixing a bug takes a little time, but they could at least tweet out that they're aware of it.

That's a fair point, but again the logic of "well they didn't say anything" doesn't green light exploiting and cheating.

[Cracked]

For a mage? Yes it is, it doesn't even have the right stats

I can safely tell you that the blink chest is one of the best legendaries unless the only thing you care about is big dick deeps.

[Beace]

unless the only thing you care about is big dick deeps.

That's what any serious dps raider cares about.

[sasofrass]

The best part about both statements is that both guilds try to push the situation out of their direction. They both throw blame towards Blizzard showing previous possibly exploitative ways of handling abilities. They're both playing the blame game and trying to show the community what they did compared to what other guilds have done (and are still doing) is minor and they shouldn't have received penalties. It's pathetic how these top guilds, backed by huge community support, try to find any excuse possible to acclaim what they did didn't deserve the punishment received.

I disagree with both guilds. Knowing that killing your tank completely disables a major mechanic of the encounter is clear-as-day encounter breaking bug. Using deaths to avoid mechanics by having to waste your combat rez's is a completely different scenario than using a single death to deactivate the entire ability from the encounter. One is taking encounter mechanics and using them to your advantage which is requiring a more perfect play, one is just straight cheating.

I wish from such top rated guilds they would have had better statements. They're admired by the community and this is what they give us. Excuses, blame games, distractions. How about an apology to the communities and to the people who have supported you? Accepting you were in the wrong and owning it is much more respectable than the excuse pity-party we've received.

[Cracked]

That's what any serious dps raider cares about.

That is not what any serious raider cares about. Care about killing boss first, and for progression bosses, the chest is fucking amazing, speaking from personal experience on Helya Mythic.

[willemh]

ITT: People dont grasp the difference between exploits which skip an ability completely for the rest of the fight vs making an ability easier to handle.

Don't act there havn't been exploits that fully skipped mechanics on bosses before that Blizzard didnt ban anyone for.

Just for flavor I can add two more to the list:
- Stacking your raid on the mountain on Archimonde in TBC. The hellfire coudn't find a path up the mountain so you completely negated that mechanic. No exploit right?
- Chainstunning adds with holy wrath (that were getting diminishing returns from any other forms of stun), completely removing the hardest part of the figh (adds)

When you ask a few top-end guildleaders I'm certain they could come up with a list with about 100 exploits for 100 different bosses that were actively used and fully negated abilities that were not punished by blizzard. Good reads:
http://manaflask.com/articles/eoy-s-...crusade?page=4
http://manaflask.com/en/articles/eoy-s-exploits-vanilla

So acting like there has always been a clear line is seriously crap.

[Deleted]

Players got banned for doing something that they've been doing for years without getting punished.

Better late than never.

[Sastank]

https://twitter.com/maximumwow/statu...80339611631616


Officer in Limit posting they would of killed it regardless of exploit

Well then I guess they will after their ban is over. Kek

[Beace]

That is not what any serious raider cares about. Care about killing boss first, and for progression bosses, the chest is fucking amazing, speaking from personal experience on Helya Mythic.

Higher dps leads to a dead boss faster.

When guilds class stack to get a world first kill, they pick the classes that can put out the most damage, not the class that does good dmg and has high survivability. For the same reason you're never gonna pick a utility or defensive legendary ahead of a dps legendary, if you've got the choice.

[Insomlol]

It is slightly different. Source of Chaos will kill your tank unless the raid soaks the beam and kills the Source. Fair enough, some guilds just let the tank die and get a rez to save some DPS.

The method of dying on Helya though prevents the breath from being cast at all. No damage goes out, no adds spawn, no patches of goo fill the room. Clearly not a way that's intended, although I still think it could be filed under clever use of game mechanics, and it's easily within Blizz's ability to change how the cast works if they don't like guilds doing it that way.

I think the point theyre trying to say is, if Helya kept breathing after the tank had died (not the same cast) in the same way that Archimonde did with the wrought. Then this wouldnt be a problem?

Im agreeing with the fact that they shouldnt have used the bug. But i can understand how they found it (saccing a tank)

[BiggestNoob]

QA is shit. They don't need 2 years alpha/beta to fix bugs, they need it because they're overhauling the whole class/spec every xpac and they're really bad at that. If they stopped their overhaul bullshit and focused on fixing and actual testing, that would be a step in the right direction.

I don't know why whoever keeps deciding to do this has a job. It's unnecessary and wastes huge amounts of time.

If it aint broke, don't fix it.

Yeah, they ban those who exploit them before fixing them.
Seems good to me.

That WQ repeat bug happened on beta too. There were tons of people out at the drakes exploiting the shit out of it so we could get more traits and test out the more questionable golds. It got reported a lot.

Instead of fixing it generally (clearly they would've realized that this same conflict would probably at some point happen again), they decided not to.

That bug happened sometime around March or April.

[Supercool]

I think the point theyre trying to say is, if Helya kept breathing after the tank had died (not the same cast) in the same way that Archimonde did with the wrought. Then this wouldnt be a problem?

I think that's right, but Blizz is unlikely to come out and say so.

[The Emperor]

So basically guilds that used lock to dispel on mythic Xavius without penalty would be banned too? I'm worried, cuz it makes me liable =P
And I disagree with this decision. If they started the witch hunt, they should ban everyone, and me too. So, Come at me, blizz.

[Insomlol]

I think that's right, but Blizz is unlikely to come out and say so.

I can understand why guilds did it initially. If it makes it easier (ala Wrought Chaos on Archimonde) without removing the mechanic after the first breath, then i dont think it would've been the issue. The whole issue is the breath stopped being cast after the first death. IF Helya kept breathing after the first death (like wrought chaos) then it wouldnt be a problem.

[Craxus]

no its about integrity and not cheating. if you know its not supposed to work that way don't do it. cheaters got what was coming to them. they shoul dhave perma banned all their asses to prove a point.

[powerstuck]

Players got banned for doing something that they've been doing for years without getting punished. This is as much blizzard fudging up as it is their own fault for doing something banable.

I personally know people who have been using bots. Some of those people used them or are still using them without being banned, others have been banned more than once for the same offence.

Not getting caught/not being punished doesn't make it less OKAY.

[Supercool]

I personally know people who have been using bots. Some of those people used them or are still using them without being banned, others have been banned more than once for the same offence.

Not getting caught/not being punished doesn't make it less OKAY.

The situations Warriorsarri was describing/alluding to weren't cases where someone simply didn't get caught, they were cases of open and flagrant "clever use of game mechanics" that Blizzard simply didn't take action against. They knew guilds were doing it and the guilds made no secret of doing it.

- - - Updated - - -

no its about integrity and not cheating. if you know its not supposed to work that way don't do it. cheaters got what was coming to them. they shoul dhave perma banned all their asses to prove a point.

Apart from that being a terrible PR move, it's absurd to hand down a harsher punishment to something that only affects the meta-game, the race between guilds, vs. something like botting that can potentially trash an entire server's economy and ruin the game for thousands of people at a time.

[Dehooka]

Hell no, we were trying hard and enjoying the instance. That's just retrospective coping.



It was deleted very quickly for good reason

Out of curiosity, how does a guild of your caliber manage when players lack of accountability and professionalism gets in the way of the message the leadership projects. For example, your letter was well-written, thoroughly thought out, and overall the only redeeming factor of this whole mess, but it seems strange to someone like myself on the outside when your players, even as high as your officers, consistently demonstrate that they feel different about the matter. From everything that has come out, it just seems like a few players in the guild are genuinely apologetic and regret the decision, but others are taking it very lightly and even went as far as bad mouthing fellow top-end guilds regarding the matter.

[Shelly]

So basically guilds that used lock to dispel on mythic Xavius without penalty would be banned too? I'm worried, cuz it makes me liable =P
And I disagree with this decision. If they started the witch hunt, they should ban everyone, and me too. So, Come at me, blizz.

Actually that's a different deal.

There are places where using clever game mechanics or the tools you have to avoid damage - such as the lock dispel prior to the hotfix or monks on Blackhand - that Blizz is ok with. It's not really a bug, in the one case it was just an oversight and in the other it's basically how monks worked then and how they work now.

Completely negating a mechanic through intentional and reproducible means though is a big deal and will get you the ban. We saw this on LK with the saronite bombs and we are seeing it here with the helya breath combat rez. If all the rez did was allowed you to soak with one character and then rez them and be forced to rez them again as the mechanic continued throughout the fight then Blizz would have been fine with it.

It didn't do that though. It straight up turned off a mechanic that then downtuned the fight to a lower tier where that particular mechanic wouldn't otherwise be there.

Sorry, but you don't get mythic rewards for completing LFR level content with mythic HP on the mobs.