State of Beast Mastery

[Ninjeff]

What I dont understand is why Blizzard gave BM a second pet when Hunters have been complaining about pet AI, pet pathing, slow response, slow target switching, having to dismiss because of larger aggro radius in dungeons for years! And Hati is an even slower, worse performing AI than our main pet !! Feels like the hunter Devs are brand new for legion and they have no clue....

At least give us a glyph option to put Hait's power into our main pet or something. Hati is just horrible.

Also the 3 button rotation gets boring pretty fast. Add some depth to the general BM rotation and get rid of Hati and BM is fixed IMO.

[Deleted]

What I dont understand is why Blizzard gave BM a second pet when Hunters have been complaining about pet AI, pet pathing, slow response, slow target switching, having to dismiss because of larger aggro radius in dungeons for years! And Hati is an even slower, worse performing AI than our main pet !! Feels like the hunter Devs are brand new for legion and they have no clue....

At least give us a glyph option to put Hait's power into our main pet or something. Hati is just horrible.

Also the 3 button rotation gets boring pretty fast. Add some depth to the general BM rotation and get rid of Hati and BM is fixed IMO.

So your way of "fixing" BM is to make it MM but without Lone Wolf?

Two pets is great for a real best master feel they just need to fix pathing/ai. IMHO i'd rather have like 5 pets to truly be master of the beasts but as they failed with Hati's AI it would only be a shit show. BM's rotation is about as boring as everyone else these days so i'm not sure why it's the only one getting slated for being boring.

[Ninjeff]

So your way of "fixing" BM is to make it MM but without Lone Wolf?

Two pets is great for a real best master feel they just need to fix pathing/ai. IMHO i'd rather have like 5 pets to truly be master of the beasts but as they failed with Hati's AI it would only be a shit show. BM's rotation is about as boring as everyone else these days so i'm not sure why it's the only one getting slated for being boring.

You mean make BM a hunter that works? Im confused. BM is not that close to MM in play style overall right now. Hati is a very poorly performing pet AI and needs to be fixed or give us an option to get rid of a broken pet. 3 buttons in the standard rotation is like 2 less than the average class right now id say. Just off the top of my head though. There's just very little depth to the rotation and game play and id like to see some more.

[Deleted]

You mean make BM a hunter that works? Im confused. BM is not that close to MM in play style overall right now. Hati is a very poorly performing pet AI and needs to be fixed or give us an option to get rid of a broken pet. 3 buttons in the standard rotation is like 2 less than the average class right now id say. Just off the top of my head though. There's just very little depth to the rotation and game play and id like to see some more.

Being slightly over dramatic saying BM only has 3 buttons to use. All specs are boring and lacking in 12 button rotations. When you say making a BM hunter that works what you really mean is " I don't want to use lone wolf as MM " because that's literally all you're suggesting.

[Ninjeff]

Being slightly over dramatic saying BM only has 3 buttons to use. All specs are boring and lacking in 12 button rotations. When you say making a BM hunter that works what you really mean is " I don't want to use lone wolf as MM " because that's literally all you're suggesting.

Why are you so stuck on Lone Wolf as MM ?? First of all we are talking about BM here. Secondly, I play MM with lone wolf as well as BM. BM hunter is master of beasts, I understand this. Hati is straight broken and doesnt work. If you are a master of beast shouldnt Hati be just as well trained as your main pet if not better? I dont need 0 pets as a hunter, although im not against MM with lone wolf either. I want a pet that works and may be able to bring some utility to the table. Hati does neither of these and could be argued that Hati is straight bugged and broken as AI.

12 buttons? You are literally being what you called me, over dramatic. Im not trying to argue. Im just stating my opinions. Outside of DPS CD's and counting MoC and Titans Thunder as CD's as well seeing how they have 1 min long cool downs, BM has 3 buttons to press in its rotation. Kill Command, Dire Beast, and Cobra Shot. This is the state of the class.

[Deleted]

Why are you so stuck on Lone Wolf as MM ?? First of all we are talking about BM here. Secondly, I play MM with lone wolf as well as BM. BM hunter is master of beasts, I understand this. Hati is straight broken and doesnt work. If you are a master of beast shouldnt Hati be just as well trained as your main pet if not better? I dont need 0 pets as a hunter, although im not against MM with lone wolf either. I want a pet that works and may be able to bring some utility to the table. Hati does neither of these and could be argued that Hati is straight bugged and broken as AI.

12 buttons? You are literally being what you called me, over dramatic. Im not trying to argue. Im just stating my opinions. Outside of DPS CD's and counting MoC and Titans Thunder as CD's as well seeing how they have 1 min long cool downs, BM has 3 buttons to press in its rotation. Kill Command, Dire Beast, and Cobra Shot. This is the state of the class.

Hati isn't straight broken, it's not great but it's far from broken. They could improve him with a bit more damage + baked in blink strikes if they're being lazy or actually clone the main pets abilities/movement.

We do most of our damage in 15 second windows in which we have 8 buttons to press if you want to break it down that far. Yes we could stand to have something else to press but one of the main benefits for BM over MM is we can be totally mobile and not lose any DPS. I.E Nythendra

[jibberbox85]

You might be pleased/interested to hear that according to wowhead (http://www.wowhead.com/news=257860/p...-class-changes) Blizzard is testing a buff to Dire Frenzy, reducing the base cooldown from 15s to 12s.

I haven't had the leisure to test or sim it, but it seems to me like it would be a very, very strong buff to the skill. I'm playing a lot with Dire Frenzy on live already, there are interesting perks making it a better skill in some niche solo situations already, namely Higher & faster AOE/ST threat building for the pet tank, high instant focus gain instead of lower focus over time, more Leech, reliable burst with Titan's Thunder. If this 20% buff is as monstrous as I think it is and puts it it in line with Stomp as a pure dps talent, it might be a good gameplay/build alternative.

Now all we need is for Chimera Shot to get a similar buff. Make it proc Wild Hunt, maybe?

Have caution with wowhead.



http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20752227502

[SeagullMD]

My hunter is just my alt, hence playing BM once every week literally cause after the initial burst and popping everything whenever they are up again, properly you still end up sucking cause its damage its pathetic.

881 ilvl, 32 traits, i'm having no issues being competitive, BM has issues, damage isn't a big one.

The spec can be improved but it's current version is far from an unusable spec like people are saying on this forum.

[jibberbox85]

881 ilvl, 32 traits, i'm having no issues being competitive, BM has issues, damage isn't a big one.

The spec can be improved but it's current version is far from an unusable spec like people are saying on this forum.

Bm can do enough damage to be competitive, but it lacks certain things that other classes don't have to worry about. When comparing BM to other classes there's a reason why BM is at, and or close to the bottom for raid dps/damage. BM saving grace is more so being able to move while casting a focus attack, but the positive doesn't enough to outweigh the negatives.

[Deleted]

Im seriously starting to think that a majority of the people complaining about BM don't play it and are on the BM hate wagon, or are seriously bad players that they more or less are a part of the former group.

Cobra Shot, Kill Command, Dire Beast, Multi Shot, Crows VS Sidewinders, Aimed Shot, Marked Shot, Barrage, Wind Burst

Ignoring 1m cd's because that is apparently too high, and if you'll jump on and say that Crows is a 1min CD, then you make me happy.

I play both specs, can't say I prefer MM over BM but is it too much to ask that people don't lose grip on common sense.

[Tehalbino]

BM is very well designed and with the re-addition of traps should be in a decent spot for pvp.

The only complaint with the spec is the lack of talent choices. Only suggestion I have is making the tier2 baseline and making wild call always useful. (Just make it your next Dire Beast cast resets the cooldown instead of the rng headache it is now).

[sponge5307]

bm is completely broken and beyond any fixes this xpack imo. there are just too many things on a very basic level completely not functioning in a raiding environment.
Not to mention that the simplicity is absolutely embarassing. I mean how can you not play nearly perfect at this point... at least rotation-wise. It feels like it is a spec meant for retards. which surprisingly fits the description of a good number of bm players I met. 5- mans are a different topic, they are not real end game content to me though so I don't care. can just as well do those as mm

I maily do 5man now so mytthic + mainly. BM is much much better in 5man content than MM. The cleave damage our pets is very good and that's what you need mostly in m+ where AoE damage out weight ST. Also since MM hunter will pick Lone wolf for their own dps they don't have a pet. I usually use a moth in m+ due to the fact battle rez is very very very useful and usually is a life saver. If someone dies mid fight I can just rez them and possible save a wipe. MM hunter don't have that ability. Also as BM my burst damage is very good in AoE packs. Get pet in position, Pop BS, Aspect of the wile, Mulit Shoot, use Dire beast on CD, AoC on Main target, Kill command. I can do insane burst damage.

I have yet meet a MM hunter who can come close to burst damage of a BM. I mean sure MM can most likely beat us in ST and sustain damage output but the point on M+ is mostly on burst damage on packs and that's where BM shine. Is just MM is better in raids where sustain damage output is more important.

To be honest I been putting points into SV and see how that goes. I think after the next patch the best hunter spec would be SV. If setup correctly their burst damage is the best of all hunter spec and also they can do pretty decent in terms on ST and sustain damage if play right. I said right right since SV rotation is a lot less forgiving than both MM and BM. One mistake and your dps will drop.

[Deleted]

@sponge5307 I've saved M+ timed runs so many times with the ability to combat res it is indeed very very very useful to have. My relics are all for ST damage now and even so, on sustained cleave i can do as well as or beat MM hunters and then smash when it comes to ST.

BM is not broken.

@Tangman I agree with you there, those people just jumped on the MM hype train pre expansion and don't want to lose face by admitting that MM isn't the holy grail of hunter specs they had hoped for.

[jibberbox85]

Im seriously starting to think that a majority of the people complaining about BM don't play it and are on the BM hate wagon, or are seriously bad players that they more or less are a part of the former group.

Cobra Shot, Kill Command, Dire Beast, Multi Shot, Crows VS Sidewinders, Aimed Shot, Marked Shot, Barrage, Wind Burst

Ignoring 1m cd's because that is apparently too high, and if you'll jump on and say that Crows is a 1min CD, then you make me happy.

I play both specs, can't say I prefer MM over BM but is it too much to ask that people don't lose grip on common sense.

BM has great burst, but the longer the fight the more focus starved you get. While BM might do great to start, other classes will eventually surpass BM due to focus regen. Also, if you're on a fight that has adds that are more so spread out MM and some other classes will outshine BM by quite a bit. Don't assume you're the only one that knows anything about how BM plays, and people are bad because they don't agree with your viewpoint.


Just an fyi, I don't think people are saying BM is bad, it's just not comparable to some( if not most) other classes at the same level. Not even close.



Keep in mind that no other class (That i know of) requires 26 AP traits and maybe 2-3 good *specific* relics (IE jaws of thunder, pack leader (Weapon damage is the lowest stat for BM hunters) to be somewhat competitive.


edit: Oh, and I also left out the pathing/run to the adds/boss issue that both pets have and more so hati. Have you seen how slow those pets are? Try BM with the Odyn fight, and you'll see that they move like the granny NPC from the highmountain quest.


(This is talking about a raid environment, and not mythic + )

[zerocarbs]

How to fix BM

1. delete hati
2. delete artifact weapon
3. fix all talent rows to not be stupid
4. give back old play style
5. give back old utility

easy fix

[Deleted]

I had no issues as BM on Odyn, did 340k dps or so (still beat every MM hunter in the raid with similar gear), but didn't actually kill it cos 2hard when pugging. I'm not a main raider so I can't comment much on yuber progress raiding where every single ounce matters. This was before I got some real upgrades though, so can't tell.

Problem is people keep claiming 1 spec is vastly superior to another, and that is flat out not true. Only time I'll agree that MM is a clear victor is when you've got 3 Trueshot relics + Boots, because that is flat out insane. Not actually seen a BM with Lions&Apexis, so can't have any reference point.

From what I have done though, I seem to do just fine and even beat many MM hunters I play with, on some bosses they destroy me though and vice versa.

As far as assumptions go, you're making a pretty big one with me assuming Im the only one that knows how to play BM

What I said was Im getting the feeling people are idiots, cos BM is 2buttons and MM is this quantum physics complexity to play, its not. That is how people portray it, at the very least. MM takes skill and BM does not, which is a pretty big statement and making every single person who says it, pretty clueless.

[Deleted]

Oh, and I also left out the pathing/run to the adds/boss issue that both pets have and more so hati. Have you seen how slow those pets are? Try BM with the Odyn fight, and you'll see that they move like the granny NPC from the highmountain quest.

Their mobility problem is mainly their inability to attack on the move unlike other players and the slow passive/moveTo/attack reaction time (too slow to micro within their 3sec base attack timer, think stutter stepping "attack-move" like in Diablo or in Starcraft), so you can't fully manual their position around the boss to shorten the run to the next spot.

But yeah seriously, Hati is slllllllooooowwwwer than my old Spearazon's Impale. Sometimes you bestial wrath at the perfect time immediately cobra shot to reset the cooldown on kill command, and on the next GCD, only your pet is in range and gets to charge the add. Very annoying. It happens so often you even notice it when you solo.

[Deleted]

Hati is not only slow but sometimes she run back to me even if there is a target who i`m with combat
BM pets need serious work who i hope that will be done if not this atleast in next expansion
I also like the idea to have 2 pets instead only one so i really hope that when we get over with artifact weapons BM to be able to use 2 pets from their stables (that will be awesome for the class fantasy)
Atm Hati acts more like guardian than copy of your pet and that is what drawn the spec down

[Knifttar]

bm is completely broken and beyond any fixes this xpack imo. there are just too many things on a very basic level completely not functioning in a raiding environment.
Not to mention that the simplicity is absolutely embarassing. I mean how can you not play nearly perfect at this point... at least rotation-wise. It feels like it is a spec meant for retards. which surprisingly fits the description of a good number of bm players I met. 5- mans are a different topic, they are not real end game content to me though so I don't care. can just as well do those as mm

There is no way you have any friends if you talk to other people in this manner.

[Gsara]

Im not really seeing the focus issues some people seem to be having but I am using both Lions belt and apex claws. Hati could use some fixes and some dungeons are just annoying as BM with pet pathing and getting "stuck". Other than that I really like BM and have zero issues keeping up with damage against most specs.