Trial of Valor Mythic Race Progression

[Floopa]

Funny thing is, it's not an exploit according to blizzard but it's still going to get hotfixed, making the DPS check a lot harder, DT would have never made it with the intended way.

if they fix it it's rather hypocritical on their part.

you're right, DT wouldn't have killed the boss if not for their p1 tactic.

[Deleted]

What a circus, glad I quit raiding. Blizz are so incredibly inconsequential.

[Naibil]

US First, World 5th just claimed by Entropy on OC-Frostmourne

[Deleted]

One thing I think we all can agree on is that Helya's enrage timer is obviously overtuned aka too short.

All guilds that have killed here are 885+, the best itemlvl they can come up to before Nighthold is ~890, and they STILL have to either do an unintetional strategy or class stack shadow priests, hunters and mages like crazy.

From what I've seen in kill videos, the healing required doesn't seem overtuned, and even if they nerfed the enrage by 1 minute it would still need perfect execution of the mechanics to beat her.

[Desh]

Congrats to Entropy on their legit US first.

[Deleted]

People defending DT are so pathetic it's unbelievable.

[Deleted]

People defending DT are so pathetic it's unbelievable.

People like Ion Hazzikostas?

[Dangg]

People defending DT are so pathetic it's unbelievable.

Watcher's explanation is perfectly logical and consistent with what was bannable in the past.

[willemh]

Watcher's explanation is perfectly logical and consistent with what was bannable in the past.

Fact Blizzard doesnt ban for it doesnt mean its a legit kill tho. There have been at least a million exploits in this game that blizzard choose not to ban people for, doesnt mean it's not an exploit. You can write a book about the amount of mechanics that have been exploited on past bosses that blizzard didnt ban for, doesn't mean it's considered legit by the community to do so.

I mean, everyone and his mother is using the darkmoon seeshaw to walljump through an invisible wall and skip the opera event of Karazhan, Blizzard hasn't banned for this, but can anyone in his right mind argue that this is a legit method to do the nightbane run? Ofcourse not.

Blizzard didnt ban people that jumped ontop of an invisible wall to make the final boss in court unable to charge in M+15 (boss would have been unkillable otherwise). Obviously it's not legit.

Blizzard didnt ban guilds pulling atrimedes out of his room to avoid his balls. Thats why you dont see any world first kill videos of him anywhere. Obviously not legit.

And the list can go on and on and on.

[Floopa]

I mean, everyone and his mother is using the darkmoon seeshaw to walljump through an invisible wall and skip the opera event of Karazhan, Blizzard hasn't banned for this, but can anyone in his right mind argue that this is a legit method to do the nightbane run? Ofcourse not.

they recently fixed this. you can no longer do this. the crystal only becomes active once opera has been killed

[willemh]

they recently fixed this. you can no longer do this. the crystal only becomes active once opera has been killed

That's my whole point, it was obviously an exploit, but they didnt ban for it, doesnt make it any more legit tho.

Helya's breath will probably be fixed aswell. Which will further show that this was clearly an exploit.

[chronia]

if they fix it it's rather hypocritical on their part.

you're right, DT wouldn't have killed the boss if not for their p1 tactic.

Imho, if they fix this, this fix would be on par with lets say Mythic Il'Gynoth. As far as i remember Method was the only top 5 guild there killing that fight the intended way but none of the other guilds did really exploit the fight, still Blizz decided to change the fight so cheesing it in one Phase was no longer possible. And i could see Blizzard take the same stance here, the way DT did it is not intended but also, but it also does not feel like a exploit as they are not breaking any mechanics its more cheesing a mechanic rather than exploiting, but i can imagine Blizzard would might fix this so this does not turn into the "go to" tactic.

[Mellomania]

That's my whole point, it was obviously an exploit, but they didnt ban for it, doesnt make it any more legit tho.

Helya's breath will probably be fixed aswell. Which will further show that this was clearly an exploit.

The difference seems to be:
This is not supposed to work like this, so let's fix it (no ban)
This really breaks the encounter in some way(ban)

- - - Updated - - -

Can anyone think of someone getting banned for the first one?

[Deleted]

This really breaks the encounter in some way(ban)

So Ra-den permanently sitting in his Vita phase because of coding screw-up was fine? Does anyone even know what to do during Anima phase?

[Mellomania]

So Ra-den permanently sitting in his Vita phase because of coding screw-up was fine? Does anyone even know what to do during Anima phase?

I didn't raid ToT when it was current, so i'm don't really know how that boss works. I just zerged it during siege

[Deleted]

So Ra-den permanently sitting in his Vita phase because of coding screw-up was fine? Does anyone even know what to do during Anima phase?

Ok, lets get that out of the way before more bullshit comes through. There was no bug in the Ra-den encounter related to the phases.

Ra-den got pulled and (obviously) you want to put him in the Vita phase. After everyone in the raid has the debuff that 1 shots you if you absorb the lightning, you want to swap his phase. Every time Ra-den swaps from Vita-Anima or Anima-Vita, he also gains 10% dmg for the rest of the fight. Now here comes the catch.

Since the Anima phase was much harder than the Vita phase(the tank debuff was bugged and the dmg of the red phase was extremely high), it was much more efficient to take the boss to the red orb---> trigger the Anima Phase--> then take the boss to the blue orb and trigger back the Vita Phase. Ra-den gains 20% dmg doing that(opposed to 10%), which also makes p2 harder, but the boss is overall much easier.

Exploit would of been spinning the boss around and not taking either of the orbs until 40%.

[Dangg]

Fact Blizzard doesnt ban for it doesnt mean its a legit kill tho. There have been at least a million exploits in this game that blizzard choose not to ban people for, doesnt mean it's not an exploit. You can write a book about the amount of mechanics that have been exploited on past bosses that blizzard didnt ban for, doesn't mean it's considered legit by the community to do so.

I mean, everyone and his mother is using the darkmoon seeshaw to walljump through an invisible wall and skip the opera event of Karazhan, Blizzard hasn't banned for this, but can anyone in his right mind argue that this is a legit method to do the nightbane run? Ofcourse not.

Blizzard didnt ban people that jumped ontop of an invisible wall to make the final boss in court unable to charge in M+15 (boss would have been unkillable otherwise). Obviously it's not legit.

Blizzard didnt ban guilds pulling atrimedes out of his room to avoid his balls. Thats why you dont see any world first kill videos of him anywhere. Obviously not legit.

And the list can go on and on and on.

The difference here is that Blizz never gave a shit about dungeons. Maybe I'm missing some example, but I can't think of any.

Pulling bosses to unintended places to avoid mechanics never resulted in bans in the past IIRC (MC, BWL, Prince, Twin Valkyr...)

[Deleted]

The difference here is that Blizz never gave a shit about dungeons. Maybe I'm missing some example, but I can't think of any.

Pulling bosses to unintended places to avoid mechanics never resulted in bans in the past IIRC (MC, BWL, Prince, Twin Valkyr...)

nobody was banned for atramades

[Deleted]

There was no bug in the Ra-den encounter related to the phases.

Do you think it was really intended by encounter designers that you never needed to do Anima phase? And soaking two balls instead of choosing was for sure intended way to do it?
Ra-den is now remembered as joke boss, yet it wasn't killed instantly after Lei Shen. Your kill happened two resets after, but first reset you probably didn't even have time to pull the boss. Paragon should've been able to spend all 30 attempts.
Asians bugged him even more, but their kill got stripped iirc.

Cant' post any links, but you can search a thread with id 1299304 for Watcher interview.

Ra-Den didn't work out completely as envisioned. The sense of mystery associated with a boss that no one knows anything about is nice, making the content a bonus prize for defeating Lei Shen. It was hard to balance and test without the regular player testing, which resulted in clever use of game mechanics to defeat Ra-Den. Normally hotfixes would have been used to solve the problem, but limited attempts made it a more complicated situation.

So issue was lack of proper testing and limited attempts. Second thing probably won't happen anymore, but first issue will happen constantly with one hour of public testing before releasing any encounter. How it was different from Helya that breaks here and there?

With new killvid being released there are many more kills happening right now. Assuming 11 minute enrage timer being kept and clever blobs bug being fixed, do you think those guilds are going to be able to repeat their Helya kill next week?

[Deleted]

With new killvid being released there are many more kills happening right now. Assuming 11 minute enrage timer being kept and clever blobs bug being fixed, do you think those guilds are going to be able to repeat their Helya kill next week?

I think many of you dont understand that this DT tactic is NOT easy for every raidsetup. Look at their raid setup. Which classes are good at killing those blobs when theyre spread out? hunters, moonkins, DH for example.
DT has 5 mages which are bad at killing spread out blobs (and arent very good on the helya fight overall).
Now look at Serenitys setup for a second: 2 moonkins 2 hunters 2 mages. Now why would Serenity use DTs tactic if they only have 2 mages, making it harder for themselves without melees being able to attack blobs and the ranged dps who gets an orb not being able to attack it either?
Method had 1 mage, 3 hunters, 1 moonkin. Why would method use this strat? Hunters can pretty much do the same amount of dmg doesnt matter if stacked up or in a line, but with DTs strat a hunter who is kiting an orb can not attack the blobs, while they can still attack blobs with the "normal" strat. So DTs strat would also be worse than the normal strat for method.

DTs tactic is NOT making the p1 breath much easier overall, its making it easier for THEIR setup with 5 mages and not a lot of classes who can do efficient aoe on spread out targets. So im pretty certain that not a lot of other guilds will actually be using this DT strat unless they have a similar raid setup without efficient aoe for spread out targets.

If this DT strat gets fixed for some reason, then DT and guilds with a similar setup might not be able to kill the boss with this same setup. But switch 1 or 2 mages with hunters/DH/moonkin and they will be fine.