So another nerf in 7.1.5 is how blizzard is fixing warlocks bad class design??

[Jun]

Yeah yeah, progress guilds taken token warlocks and hardly ever affliction because they just don;t comprehend how we are in fact every bit as good as mages, hunters and shadowpriests

Demonology and affliction both have big problems because they have massive ramp in a game that is heavily biased towards burst damage. The devs themselves have highlighted that as a serious issue - several times over. It takes affliction and demo so long to actually hit the ground and start running everyone else has actually already done the job at hand anyway.

Destruction is the best spec because guess what, it is the one that works most like a mage. Only unlike a mage, destruction is almost totally centred around one single talent and being able to use it. And like all warlocks specs, it is pidgeonholed by the fact that it has to use talents to function, whereas most other classes use talents as quality of life or function enhancers, what for us is talents they have built into them as base abilities.

I main affliction, and I'm far from the bottom of the meter, and I've a good friend who mains demo that's averaging 530k minimum parses on Mythic Xavius.

We're in a good place as a class, if it's played well. Just gotta know what you're doing.

[Deleted]

When i look at the dps meters on world of logs for trial: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...0&difficulty=4 i think warlocks are in an "okayish" spot.

I have a feeling that you will be crying till you are pushed to no1. But honestly, every class is crying about damage. Hunters, Mages, rogues and and and. It is all the same

Warlocks are pulled up on ToV by Odyn. Both affliction and destruction have long -lived adds they can cleave/multidot for almost the whole fight. It shold be almost perfect for them. And yet guess what: they get edged by Shadown Priests. Yes folks, the ultimate dot wielder affliction gets out-dotted by a hybrid class.

Now look at Guarm. Destruction is dead last and affliction isn;t much better. Our pure single target spec is middl eof the pack. And yes Shadow Priests are doing good here too. So apparently you can "have it all". If you are certain classes. And look at the parse numbers to see how many warlocks are getting taken to that fight. Particularly affliction lol

So. Helya. Should be an affliction warlock's dream, right? Allthose tentacles to dot up, all that aoe, all those adds which mean that Soul Flame and Wrath of Consumption actually do something for a change?

But nope. Afflicton is middle of the pack because to do AOE in that fight you have to make your already low single target damage even more dismal, so you spend the entire time you are actually damaging Helya herself at absolutely rock bottom and only start to do anything because you can do massively cheesing AOE on all those adds that spawn.

So who is top here? Why good old Shadow Priest again, and MM hunters who can take Barrage to spam without fucking up their single target and look at poor old destruction and demonology there.

What ToV shows is that warlocks do great in one fight but to really keep up you have to play not merely three talent builds but three different specs. Or you can just play a shadow priest or enhanc shammy for all of them and probably noteven have to piss about with talents.

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I main affliction, and I'm far from the bottom of the meter, and I've a good friend who mains demo that's averaging 530k minimum parses on Mythic Xavius.

We're in a good place as a class, if it's played well. Just gotta know what you're doing.

What's that got to do with the problems I spoke about?

[Tramzh]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ty=4&boss=1962
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...metric=bossdps
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...853&dataset=95
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...876&dataset=95
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...metric=bossdps

Nothing wrong with destruction single target guys, just go play demonology! Farm BiS legendaries and 35 traits for both specs easy!

[Deleted]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ty=4&boss=1962
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...metric=bossdps
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...853&dataset=95
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...876&dataset=95
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...metric=bossdps

Nothing wrong with destruction single target guys, just go play demonology! Farm BiS legendaries and 35 traits for both specs easy!

And affliction gets pulled upon Renferal because you can have Absolute Corruption and Soul Effigy hitting when almost no-one else can. Which is probably just a quirk, I suspect AC was actually designed as a GCD saver and to help people out who would have trouble managing all dots particularly with SoulEffigy in the mix, more than it was a "dps the boss when we didn;t really intend anyone to be able to" talent.

[Deleted]

Affli should be god on cuncil fights, it is not. Destro should be god in cleave fight, it is not. Warlocks definitely arent in "okayish" spot.

[Deleted]

Situation is critical. Nothing significant was really done since Alpha to fix the gameplay and fun to play.
MOP warlock were not perfect but a ton more fun to play.
Seems like they don't take ANY class mechanics complaints seriously.

You mean that destro warlock was as much braindead to play as now but before it was borderline op so it was "fun"?

Yeah I know for most of you people having a 500% dps increase would make even a one button spec fun

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Affli should be god on cuncil fights, it is not. Destro should be god in cleave fight, it is not. Warlocks definitely arent in "okayish" spot.

It is great on cleave fight, maybe the problem is you? I've seen elemental shaman complaining about their AOE damage, turns out they played terribly bad but is easier to blame the spec rather than our skill

[Deleted]

Git Gud crybabies, demo will rule the meters - if you haven't started as demo you are all plebs

[Soulzar]

Warlocks are pulled up on ToV by Odyn. Both affliction and destruction have long -lived adds they can cleave/multidot for almost the whole fight. It shold be almost perfect for them. And yet guess what: they get edged by Shadown Priests. Yes folks, the ultimate dot wielder affliction gets out-dotted by a hybrid class.

Odyn is a good fight for all 3 of our specs. Oh no, the obvious outlier shadow priest beat us....

Now look at Guarm. Destruction is dead last and affliction isn;t much better. Our pure single target spec is middl eof the pack. And yes Shadow Priests are doing good here too. So apparently you can "have it all". If you are certain classes. And look at the parse numbers to see how many warlocks are getting taken to that fight. Particularly affliction lol

There are literally *9* more Spriest parses than Warlock parses.

So. Helya. Should be an affliction warlock's dream, right? All those tentacles to dot up, all that aoe, all those adds which mean that Soul Flame and Wrath of Consumption actually do something for a change?

But nope. Afflicton is middle of the pack because to do AOE in that fight you have to make your already low single target damage even more dismal, so you spend the entire time you are actually damaging Helya herself at absolutely rock bottom and only start to do anything because you can do massively cheesing AOE on all those adds that spawn.

Pretty sure its a bit early to be saying any of that. Heroic logs show a good split between our specs on this fight, and how each one performance depends largely on the strat used. The majority of us who get our kills long after WF guilds have been through, use different strats and raid layouts that tailor to specific strengths that people find. Just because the first guilds to kill used X or Y class/spec means pretty little.

So other classes can do more AoE than Affliction, that doesnt automatically make Affliction bad.. it is still a very strong spec for the fight. You don't HAVE to gimp your ST to take AoE talents either, that is a choice. You can toss one seed of corruption (untalented) and get just as much Soul Flame dmg as if you went full SoW and Singularity. It doesnt matter which spec puts you where on the meters, they can each deliver that dmg differently in this fight depending on what your raid needs.

What ToV shows is that warlocks do great in one fight but to really keep up you have to play not merely three talent builds but three different specs.

Welcome to playing a pure dps class. I am pretty happy that I can play all 3 specs in ToV

[Deleted]

Welcome to playing a pure dps class. I am pretty happy that I can play all 3 specs in ToV

I fully agree to this statement. Especially now that AK is so high that catching up your other specs won't take that long any more.

[Deleted]

very true. I wish my guildmates would get that instead of being "proud" of their melee dps which % performs worse than me compared to other warlocks and they always look at sim like it is the true answer

Didntt u just flame me for saying it needs attention?? Split personality? Have you Even Played the spec?

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These threads are pretty sad, what with all the whole "sky is falling" attitudes that people throw around.

Warlocks aren't in a terrible place; it's not the class, it's you.

you are so right

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Go back to school and learn some half decent english please. Fucking hell.

I dont live in an english speak country why should i? I can only laugh at ppl like you. Think you are better then me because my english suck? Go ahead. Defend her she aperently cant herself thanks god she got you. Nerd trying to be a superhero online haha

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Go back to school and learn some half decent english please. Fucking hell.

I dont live in an english speak country why should i? I can only laugh at ppl like you. Think you are better then me because my english suck? Go ahead. Defend her she aperently cant herself thanks god she got you. Nerd trying to be a superhero online haha

[Deleted]

Didntt u just flame me for saying it needs attention?? Split personality? Have you Even Played the spec?

Who knows? Not me
We never lost control

[KrazyK923]

MoP Warlocks felt amazing to play. Why on earth did they ever deviate from THAT design? Each spec was unique and engaging. It makes no sense for them to have overhauled the 3 specs AGAIN.

Demon Hunters destroyed not only Demonology, but the class as a whole. They needlessly changed up Affliction and Destruction for some reason, and Demonology (While "op" right now) was given an absolute dogshit playstyle with a terrible fantasy behind it, and it resulted in a class that feels about only 60% completed. And what they actually had there was designed badly.

I can namely only talk about Destruction, but I absolutely despise what the spec has become. Absolutely nobody wanted Soul Shards to come backs as a mechanic, and its my opinion that the spec was utterly ruined when MoP changed it into focusing almost exclusively behind using Chaos Bolt, stealing a lot of damage from other spells and pumping it into that one ability. And, shockingly, they've just nerfed it over and over and over and over and over in both pve and pvp since this change in MoP, since DANG WHODATHUNK its bad to have a single spell that does insane amounts of damage!

At least in MoP we were OP and Burning Embers weren't as bad as Soul Shards, and we also had KJC to help compensate with our absolute terrible cast-and-move problem, which is the worst it's ever been in Legion.

Maybe one day they'll fix this class, but I've given up on it. I've played one for 12 years and I can't take another expansion of getting pissed on and people saying, "Just wait until launch/110/dungeon-gear/mythic+-gear/raid-gear/7.1/7.2/7.3/7.4/8.0 and you'll see it's actually rain!" Not to mention the legion (haha) of stooges that will defend what Blizzard has done to the class.

[Dwill]

Affli should be god on cuncil fights, it is not.

They are. If you can't perform in council encounter, the issue is definitively you.

[Vynny]

They keep saying that's it's only the first set of changes and many more are to come. They said it before , during the deployment and are still saying it.

Celestalon even tweeted that the tuning pass will be done after ALL the changes are up. Please stop being so cancerous all the time.

The problem is that we don't actually know what they're even looking at for changes. It'd be really helpful if they made a list of what issues they see with the classes so we at least knew what direction they wanted to take things rather than having to wait for them to make changes and guessing on their design intent based on those specific changes. For all we know, they may think that aff/destro single target dps is fine because that's not their niche and not have any intention on increasing it at all. They may think that locks lack of mobility cooldowns and pretty much inability to do any damage on the move is all exactly how they want the class to be.

[lardaoc]

it's sad, but many players simply don;t have any trust. Who can blame them? Particularly after that "warlock are tanky, we like to double down on strengths, here, have a nerf to your tankiness" incident.

It's just that we didn't understand the doubling down on strengths correctly, warlocks are tanky, take 2 defensive CD's in the same talent row, destru locks take 2 single target talents in the same row.... ect xD

We are still above of the tank in mythic plus dungeons... sometimes, if we are lucky and the tank is slacking, so everything seems fine...

[Deleted]

You mean that destro warlock was as much braindead to play as now but before it was borderline op so it was "fun"?

Yeah I know for most of you people having a 500% dps increase would make even a one button spec fun

Nice putting words into his mouth. It was a straight up more fun spec, with or without numbers. Burning Embers as a resource was awesome. Every spell felt like it worked towards something greater, ie. Chaos Bolt. Chaos Bolt hit like a truck. Rain of Fire had a greater use considering it's ember regeneration which was subsequently nerfed in early WoD. Mastery wasn't a complete outright piece of shit, although I still consider it to have been a broken stat.

What do we have now? Soul Shards is just not good for Destruction. You have the usual with Immolate crits granting soul shards, which is RNG although lessened through stacking crit hit. Conflagrate is the other 100% reliable means of getting soul shards. You're left in situations where you're extremely soul shard starved on single target fights, hence big downtime where fuck all is happening. Your incinerates do nothing but damage and have a 5% chance to replenish a Dimensional Rift, oh the joy. Chaos Bolt damage can differ between being a wet noodle or a badass monster machine due to the current mastery system, which is the most garbage stat I've ever seen in WoW. Nothing excites me more than seeing "Your damaging spells has a chance to deal up to 87% more damage!"

Get the fuck out of here with your shit excuse. Current Destruction spec is the most painful iteration I've seen since TBC.

[Liarparadox]

Current Destruction spec is the most painful iteration I've seen since TBC.

While I tend to think embers is overrated, I don't disagree with you on the overall design there that it just felt better for destro. I'm really not liking any spec this xpac. This is the first time since TBC I can't find a spec i like. What a clusterfuk of bad design for locks this time around.

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Who was the guy who designated class in mop? for me that was the best expansion about every class and even the dk blood was fun to play

There were a lot of things in MOP i didn't like; but class design was well done to a large degree. WTF happened blizz...

[Nadiru]

It'd be nice for Warlocks to get a little blurb about their intentions regarding Destruction, at least. If Mages can get two, maybe Locks could get one?

[Shandalar]

Why destruction and no affli or demon?

[Zandalariprelate]

Demon Hunters destroyed not only Demonology, but the class as a whole. They needlessly changed up Affliction and Destruction for some reason, and Demonology (While "op" right now) was given an absolute dogshit playstyle with a terrible fantasy behind it, and it resulted in a class that feels about only 60% completed. And what they actually had there was designed badly.

I can namely only talk about Destruction, but I absolutely despise what the spec has become. Absolutely nobody wanted Soul Shards to come backs as a mechanic, and its my opinion that the spec was utterly ruined when MoP changed it into focusing almost exclusively behind using Chaos Bolt, stealing a lot of damage from other spells and pumping it into that one ability. And, shockingly, they've just nerfed it over and over and over and over and over in both pve and pvp since this change in MoP, since DANG WHODATHUNK its bad to have a single spell that does insane amounts of damage!

At least in MoP we were OP and Burning Embers weren't as bad as Soul Shards, and we also had KJC to help compensate with our absolute terrible cast-and-move problem, which is the worst it's ever been in Legion.

Maybe one day they'll fix this class, but I've given up on it. I've played one for 12 years and I can't take another expansion of getting pissed on and people saying, "Just wait until launch/110/dungeon-gear/mythic+-gear/raid-gear/7.1/7.2/7.3/7.4/8.0 and you'll see it's actually rain!" Not to mention the legion (haha) of stooges that will defend what Blizzard has done to the class.

So my friend, would you reroll the class? I am also disappointed by the current state of the class and the part of the community that actually are defending blizzard design san saying we are fine, stop whining like some user with G