[TV] The Flash!

[Khime]

There's only a couple reasons to bring Winn along. If it was a Kryptonian threat, his knowledge of the language would be useful. And if they brought Guardian along they'd need him. But since Guardian doesn't appear to be coming along, Winn gets to stay home for the weekend.

At this point, I'd wager that Winn may know more about alien races than Kara since he joined the DEO. Which would only be useful if Earth-S had Dominators, I suppose.

Edit: Looks like the Earth-S universe does indeed have Dominators, and they tried to invade Krypton. Swell.

[Kalcheus]

Yep, ep confirmed it's Earth-38 for Kara

[Gemini Soul]

Be nice if they brought over MM also from SG.

[Saiteck]

I love these crossovers

[Sierra85]

well that was epic as fuck.

My only criticism is that they are doing very cliche stuff. Instead of actually versus aliens, it's mind control our existing heroes. And then it looks like the next part of the story (going off the trailer) is the people who got abducted seem to be in Oliver's own flashpoint dream sequence.

[Kalcheus]

well that was epic as fuck.

My only criticism is that they are doing very cliche stuff. Instead of actually versus aliens, it's mind control our existing heroes. And then it looks like the next part of the story (going off the trailer) is the people who got abducted seem to be in Oliver's own flashpoint dream sequence.

I think it's just a case where fighting aliens for 3 episodes straight would get boring, so they have to mix it up. My guess is that Legends will be them actually fighting the aliens.

[Khime]

I think it's just a case where fighting aliens for 3 episodes straight would get boring, so they have to mix it up. My guess is that Legends will be them actually fighting the aliens.

It depends on how closely they follow the original Invasion! storyline.

Issue #1 dealt with the initial invasion, and the heroes of Earth fighting it off. The Dominators had formed an Alliance of alien races; in the TV version, they seem to be relying on mind control instead, using our own troops against us instead of deploying other alien races as shock troops.

Issue #2 covered the heroes of Earth leading a counterattack against the aliens, assisted by a full-scale and uncontrollable riot on the alien's prison ship by captive metahumans. We're already seeing a setup for that with parts of the team being captured by the Dominators.

Issue #3 involved the after-effects of a "Gene Bomb" being detonated that negates the powers of every metahuman on the planet, leaving non-humans and non-powered heroes to try to retrieve a cure from the invaders. That'd be Supergirl, most of the Legends and most of team Arrow available to try to save Flash, Firestorm, Steel, and Wally before they die.

[Dasffion]

I understand why Cisco is upset with Barry but I don't understand why Diggle is so upset. He lost a daughter but gained a son. There should be no real difference to him. He still has one child, he didn't lose anything.

[Khime]

I understand why Cisco is upset with Barry but I don't understand why Diggle is so upset. He lost a daughter but gained a son. There should be no real difference to him. He still has one child, he didn't lose anything.

He had a child erased from his life. The fact that he got another child in return doesn't change that. In fact, it's almost worse - not only will he forever wonder about the daughter Barry took from him, but he might also look on his son as somehow being not as 'real' anymore, because Barry basically created him.

[grandpab]

Emo Cisco is the worst Cisco.

[Gemini Soul]

I understand why Cisco is upset with Barry but I don't understand why Diggle is so upset. He lost a daughter but gained a son. There should be no real difference to him. He still has one child, he didn't lose anything.

I don't get why diggle was upset, its RNG whether its a boy or a girl. All FP did was change the babys sex, but both looked to be the same age. Cisco i can understand thou.

[Gemini Soul]

One thing i was hoping FP did was bring Laurel back to life as the BC and she was a meta like her E2 version instead of that stupid collar.

[Khime]

I don't get why diggle was upset, its RNG whether its a boy or a girl. All FP did was change the babys sex, but both looked to be the same age. Cisco i can understand thou.

Diggle doesn't see it as "Barry changed my child from a girl to a boy." He sees John Jr as a different child, not a male version of his daughter. For him, "Barry erased my daughter from existence." He didn't just kill her; he made her never have existed. The fact that he has a son in her place doesn't change that.

John Diggle Jr only exists because of actions Barry took. It's almost like finding out you're not the father of your child; some other dude created him.

[Dasffion]

Diggle doesn't see it as "Barry changed my child from a girl to a boy." He sees John Jr as a different child, not a male version of his daughter. For him, "Barry erased my daughter from existence." He didn't just kill her; he made her never have existed. The fact that he has a son in her place doesn't change that.

John Diggle Jr only exists because of actions Barry took. It's almost like finding out you're not the father of your child; some other dude created him.

I'm sorry but that's ridiculous

[Gemini Soul]

Diggle doesn't see it as "Barry changed my child from a girl to a boy." He sees John Jr as a different child, not a male version of his daughter. For him, "Barry erased my daughter from existence." He didn't just kill her; he made her never have existed. The fact that he has a son in her place doesn't change that.

John Diggle Jr only exists because of actions Barry took. It's almost like finding out you're not the father of your child; some other dude created him.

That is rather stupid, that's like saying Barry went in time and now Dig drives a Ford instead of a Chevy but the fact is he still has a car.

Barry did not go back and kill Cisco brother or change digs child yes he went back to undo FP but those people still made their own choices in their lives they are acting like he went back in time and made those specific changes to their lives. They lived their lives to different outcomes from their own choices, that is on them.

[Gemini Soul]

The one part is ridiculous, but him losing his relationship with his daughter is what he's upset about. If he could rectify things he'd probably wish for both to exist(as fraternal twins). As it stands it's a tragedy for him no matter what the final outcome of Flashpoint is. Even if Barry finds a way to fix things, now he's lost his son and all memory of that relationship. Diggle really is in a no win situation.

- - - Updated - - -



Barry is at least partially responsible. If not for his actions things wouldn't have changed. As such his actions did have some kind of impact on those other lives and how they turned out.

Actually is RF's fault, he went back in time and killed Barrys mom changing the original time line which gave us S1. Then he is also to blame for these newest changes, because its his actions post-FP that caused all these changes. Yes Barry let the RF kill his mom, but everything else that happened that night was the same pre-FP except the RF.

[Kalcheus]

No one knows what RF changed when he killed Nora Allen the first time. So it's kinda hard to be upset about a hypothetical with no actual evidence of what transpired.

In the case of Barry changing the timeline, we do know the differences. That in of itself makes it more "real" and personal. And while Diggle might not remember Sara, he does remember finding out that Lyla was pregnant and he likely remembers the months when he thought about what the gender of the child might be and what kind of father he'd be for his or her life. So hearing he had a daughter probably brought back those memories and he feels the emptiness of what might have been. Sure all he remembers is an imagined idealization, but that probably makes it worse.

Trust me, if someone came to me tomorrow and said "yeah, you used to have a daughter but now you have a son", it'd be a gut punch. One way lighter than finding out your brother could be alive, granted, but not something you're going to dismiss as unimportant right out of hand.

[Jetstream]

What chrth said. Also, everyone really IS justified blaming Barry for the outcome because... well... it all happened because he decided to play with causality without having any goddamn idea what he was doing. Barry makes a lot of stupid decisions, and that was the stupidest one he's made so far.

If Cisco has any problems in his reasoning, for instance, its that he can't seem to keep straight exactly what thing he's pissed about. But being pissed is a sane response.

[Svifnymr]

The one part is ridiculous, but him losing his relationship with his daughter is what he's upset about. If he could rectify things he'd probably wish for both to exist(as fraternal twins). As it stands it's a tragedy for him no matter what the final outcome of Flashpoint is. Even if Barry finds a way to fix things, now he's lost his son and all memory of that relationship. Diggle really is in a no win situation.

I can see him being in shock, and I'm sure plenty of emotions run though, but it does seem a leap to "you took that girl away from me!" when you have no idea such a being existed. I didn't have a huge issue with it though since it's not as prevalent as Cisco's whining. Revealing what the Secret Tape was from legends was also underwhelming.

I loved Ollie's "quit your bitchin!" speeches though. It's like he was my projection into the world.
"No, Flash can just stay here."
"What? are you fucking stupid!"

"Because of me his brother died."
"So what? My father killed a guy, then himself, my mother was stabbed in front of me and my sister. Fuck his brother dying in a car accident, it's not your fault."

The only real nitpicky thing for me was Supergirl talking about the Dominators attacking Krypton and how strong they were. But, I mean, on Krypton weren't the Kryptonians just human-strength?

- - - Updated - - -

Also worth pointing out that to those that didn't want to watch Supergirl for the lead in, that not only was it a single scene, but the scene was repeated in Flash, thus removing any need to watch Supergirl if you don't want to.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I'd say Krypton relied on uber technology then say super strength or anything like that. Also I do agree Cisco being overly whiny about it. Barry is partially to blame but I'm sure if he had speedforce powers and went through what Barry has, he'd probably consider changing things to. The whole older Barry Allen message, well there's no context to it.

I'd be suspicious of the message until we learn more(At least if I was there with Barry anyways).