7.1.5 PTR Notes Changes for DPS DKs

[Deleted]

Again, you clearly didn't play a DK in past expansions. Both Unholy and Frost DKs used Unholy presence in wrath and cataclysm. It was the highest DPS presence due to its lower GCD. There was no stance dancing.

Note I remembered it wrong in my previous post; DKs got the 1s GCD and Death's Advance was added in MoP (it existed in Cataclysm but did not give base runspeed). So it actually went like this.

WOTLK: 15% Unholy Pres * 8% boot enchant = 124% runspeed
Cataclysm: 15% Unholy Pres * 8% boot enchant = 124% runspeed
MoP Unholy spec: 15% Unholy Pres * 8% boot enchant * 10% Death's Advance = 136% runspeed
MoP Frost spec: 8% boot enchant * 10% Death's Advance = 119% runspeed
WoD: 10% cloak enchant + 10% Death's Advance = 120% runspeed
Legion: 100% runspeed

wod had passive speed for unholy still from unholy pressence so its more then 120%speed.

[Saverem]

Again, you clearly didn't play a DK in past expansions. Both Unholy and Frost DKs used Unholy presence in wrath and cataclysm. It was the highest DPS presence due to its lower GCD. There was no stance dancing.

Note I remembered it wrong in my previous post; DKs got the 1s GCD and Death's Advance was added in MoP (it existed in Cataclysm but did not give base runspeed). So it actually went like this.

WOTLK: 15% Unholy Pres * 8% boot enchant = 124% runspeed
Cataclysm: 15% Unholy Pres * 8% boot enchant = 124% runspeed
MoP Unholy spec: 15% Unholy Pres * 8% boot enchant * 10% Death's Advance = 136% runspeed
MoP Frost spec: 8% boot enchant * 10% Death's Advance = 119% runspeed
WoD: 10% cloak enchant + 10% Death's Advance = 120% runspeed
Legion: 100% runspeed

Again, implying 24% extra movement speed was good.

[Schizoide]

wod had passive speed for unholy still from unholy pressence so its more then 120%speed.

You're right! Presences were removed in Legion, not WoD. Updated version:

WOTLK: 15% Unholy Pres * 8% boot enchant = 124% runspeed
Cataclysm: 15% Unholy Pres * 8% boot enchant = 124% runspeed
MoP Unholy spec: 15% Unholy Pres * 8% boot enchant * 10% Death's Advance = 136% runspeed
MoP Frost spec: 8% boot enchant * 10% Death's Advance = 119% runspeed
WoD Unholy spec: 15% Unholy Pres + 10% cloak enchant + 10% Death's Advance = 135% runspeed
WoD Frost spec: 10% cloak enchant + 10% Death's Advance = 120% runspeed
Legion: 100% runspeed

@Saverem: It is what I want, yes. I switched mains due to DKs moving at 100% runspeed. I find it completely unplayable. Drives me up the wall!

Point is that DKs have never moved at under 119% runspeed since 2008. That's 8 years. So all that stuff you said about having to compensate for death grip and whatnot was malarky.

[Deleted]

You're right! Presences were removed in Legion, not WoD.

WOTLK: 15% Unholy Pres * 8% boot enchant = 124% runspeed
Cataclysm: 15% Unholy Pres * 8% boot enchant = 124% runspeed
MoP Unholy spec: 15% Unholy Pres * 8% boot enchant * 10% Death's Advance = 136% runspeed
MoP Frost spec: 8% boot enchant * 10% Death's Advance = 119% runspeed
WoD Unholy spec: 15% Unholy Pres + 10% cloak enchant + 10% Death's Advance = 135% runspeed
WoD Frost spec: 10% cloak enchant + 10% Death's Advance = 120% runspeed
Legion: 100% runspeed

@Saverem: It is what I want, yes. I switched mains due to DKs moving at 100% runspeed. I find it completely unplayable. Drives me up the wall!

Point is that DKs have never moved at under 119% runspeed since 2008. That's 8 years. So all that stuff you said about having to compensate for death grip was malarky.

yeah its anoying that pressences are gone if they wouldve just giving us their effects 100% baseline(or just one that matches your spec and other 2 stance you can get in if you want) it wouldve been fine but now it isnt

[Saverem]

You're right! Presences were removed in Legion, not WoD.

WOTLK: 15% Unholy Pres * 8% boot enchant = 124% runspeed
Cataclysm: 15% Unholy Pres * 8% boot enchant = 124% runspeed
MoP Unholy spec: 15% Unholy Pres * 8% boot enchant * 10% Death's Advance = 136% runspeed
MoP Frost spec: 8% boot enchant * 10% Death's Advance = 119% runspeed
WoD Unholy spec: 15% Unholy Pres + 10% cloak enchant + 10% Death's Advance = 135% runspeed
WoD Frost spec: 10% cloak enchant + 10% Death's Advance = 120% runspeed
Legion: 100% runspeed

@Saverem: It is what I want, yes. I switched mains due to DKs moving at 100% runspeed. I find it completely unplayable. Drives me up the wall!

Point is that DKs have never moved at under 119% runspeed since 2008. That's 8 years. So all that stuff you said about having to compensate for death grip and whatnot was malarky.

I literally can't tell the difference between 100% and 119% movement speed. And DKs have ALWAYS been the worst mobility class in the game, where have you been? You accuse me of not playing DK yet you don't know this? 124% movement speed that pigeonholes you into one presence is shit. Even Rets which were the least mobile class in the game before DKs have more mobility.

If losing UH Presence is what drove you away from DK, then you were never really a DK to begin with.

[Schizoide]

yeah its anoying that pressences are gone if they wouldve just giving us their effects 100% baseline(or just one that matches your spec and other 2 stance you can get in if you want) it wouldve been fine but now it isnt

I'm fine with removing presences. They have never actually offered players a choice. In WOTLK and Cataclysm DPS DKs were in Unholy presence period, and in MoP and WoD you were in your spec's presence and never changed. Pruning them made sense and I still support it.

What I can't support is removing mobility we've had since 2008. Legion beta had Death's Advance as a passive 15% runspeed. This was removed a week or two before release. That decision and that decision alone is why I don't enjoy my DK, my main since 2008. Eight years.

If losing UH Presence is what drove you away from DK, then you were never really a DK to begin with.

Sorry, I didn't realize you were a troll. My bad. I won't respond to you again.

[Deleted]

I literally can't tell the difference between 100% and 119% movement speed. And DKs have ALWAYS been the worst mobility class in the game, where have you been? You accuse me of not playing DK yet you don't know this? 124% movement speed that pigeonholes you into one presence is shit. Even Rets which were the least mobile class in the game before DKs have more mobility.

If losing UH Presence is what drove you away from DK, then you were never really a DK to begin with.

i do notice alot of difference between my movement speed from wod compared to now in legion for you it might not be a big deal but for many others it certainly is.

[Saverem]

Sorry, I didn't realize you were a troll. My bad. I won't respond to you again.

Yes, I'm a troll for pointing out how FOTM you are.

[Protean]

That would be fine, if you didn't have to pool RP to keep Icy Talons up. And while Icy Talons keeps being the main focus of our rotation, BoS will never have a spot in the spec, at least as it is, no matter if GA and Oblit are situational or flat out terrible. It's the sad truth. And while BoS was significantly, I don't see it being used unless it's on a BoS-centered spec.

BoS should just be remade to having duration extended based on RP spent.

- - - Updated - - -

Again, implying 24% extra movement speed was good.

It's more than a certain artifact currently gives us.

[Kraeth]

Yes, I'm a troll for pointing out how FOTM you are.

He still proves his point via math, which you're not doing. And if you can't tell the difference between 100% and 119% that's on you, because I certainly could. And still can.

[Maxweii]

The difference for Unholy from what it moved at in Warlords compared to Legion is massive. If you had a WW monk in your group you were moving at 145% speed passively. 135% without one is very very quick on your feet.

[0verdose]

They aren't going to "fix"unholy this expansion. Blizz already stopped trying, nothing big will happen to us, just a bunch of bandaid fixes to talents that aren't even used. Maybe they're trying to change the build but it still won't help us in the long run. I switched to frost full time a few weeks ago and am probably gonna stick with it. I gave up the wishful thinking of "we'll be better next patch" because it's not happening. I'm so happy I didn't get the unholy bracers, I'd be pissed if I had the bis legendary and still didn't do as much damage as a frost dk without bis bracers.

[FinestHour]

still have mine set to unholy who knows nighthold might be fun with dark arbiter/convergence
never surrender

[Saverem]

He still proves his point via math, which you're not doing. And if you can't tell the difference between 100% and 119% that's on you, because I certainly could. And still can.

Math? You mean the 3rd grade math of adding speed enchants to UH presence? I can throw some maths at you too if that is what you think is relevant.

1 + 1 = 2.

119% perma run speed < 170% run speed CD.


If you really miss your 119% perma run speed, then get the Archeus mount in your order hall and you can now run at 200+% while outside.

[iky43210]

you might as well not have eyes at all if you can't notice 20% extra run speed.

[pay928]

you might as well not have eyes at all if you can't notice 20% extra run speed.

Pretty sure mains monk/DH who move incredibly fast so the movement of 20% goes unnoticed to him. Only know because Saitama Oppai avatar is memorable to me. Makes his opinion of DK mobility to those who don't play mobile classes irrelevant to me however.

[Kendros]

I think the point here is a 170% move speed cd is much better than a 20% passive assuming you use it properly at the right time, its not 20% speed thats gonna make you perform better. The stupid part on this is the ridiculous CD timer on that skill and it being a channeling.

[gixxpunk]

Ah, good old movement whine again... Go get Aggramar's, Sephuz's and a decent Hunger of the Pack... Locked behind our Legs? Well, same goes for DPS.

[Schizoide]

I think the point here is a 170% move speed cd is much better than a 20% passive assuming you use it properly at the right time,

That is absolutely true! But that isn't the point-- I didn't reroll because my DK performed poorly, I rerolled because I found 100% runspeed completely unbearable and hated every minute playing the class.

[Maxweii]

Math? You mean the 3rd grade math of adding speed enchants to UH presence? I can throw some maths at you too if that is what you think is relevant.

1 + 1 = 2.

119% perma run speed < 170% run speed CD.


If you really miss your 119% perma run speed, then get the Archeus mount in your order hall and you can now run at 200+% while outside.

First off 170% move speed on a 45s CD averages out to 103.7% overall. It's good for big bursts, that's it, otherwise it's horrendous.
Before we have in Warlords, 135% speed, with a 30% boost on a 30 second CD. Averaged out to a 5.5% boost in speed from the on use, meaning we on average moved at 140% speed. Considering we were at 135% speed, and then had the 30% boost to go to 165% speed, and it was on a shorter CD than Wraith Walk is.

There is absolutely nothing better about Wraith Walk compared to what we had before.