[TV] The Flash!

[Svifnymr]

I'd say Krypton relied on uber technology then say super strength or anything like that. Also I do agree Cisco being overly whiny about it. Barry is partially to blame but I'm sure if he had speedforce powers and went through what Barry has, he'd probably consider changing things to. The whole older Barry Allen message, well there's no context to it.

I'd be suspicious of the message until we learn more(At least if I was there with Barry anyways).

Yeah, I wasn't sure if the message was just to insure Barry gets left behind or if there's more to it or what.

[ravenmoon]

I can see him being in shock, and I'm sure plenty of emotions run though, but it does seem a leap to "you took that girl away from me!" when you have no idea such a being existed. I didn't have a huge issue with it though since it's not as prevalent as Cisco's whining. Revealing what the Secret Tape was from legends was also underwhelming.

I loved Ollie's "quit your bitchin!" speeches though. It's like he was my projection into the world.
"No, Flash can just stay here."
"What? are you fucking stupid!"

"Because of me his brother died."
"So what? My father killed a guy, then himself, my mother was stabbed in front of me and my sister. Fuck his brother dying in a car accident, it's not your fault."

The only real nitpicky thing for me was Supergirl talking about the Dominators attacking Krypton and how strong they were. But, I mean, on Krypton weren't the Kryptonians just human-strength?

.

It's not like Barry pulled the trigger on his brother, he's not responsible for their choices, Arrow is right, but not many people get that.

[Khime]

I'm waiting for the plot twist where we discover that, during the season premier while Reverse Flash was running Barry back to the present, RF stopped off to re-position Caitlin in the lab on the night of the particle accelerator explosion so she'd get powers, vibrated through Diggle and Lyla while they were conceiving their child to change its gender, and for laughs ran in front of a car and caused it to swerve into Dante.

[Zenotetsuken]

I'm sure I came into this late, but I am still super pissed that I have to watch even an episode of that garbage Supergirl show to get the whole Flash story.

[Kalcheus]

I'm sure I came into this late, but I am still super pissed that I have to watch even an episode of that garbage Supergirl show to get the whole Flash story.

It's usually better than the other shows. But fear not, scared one: the entire scene from Supergirl is replayed in Flash, so you won't have to watch hot women kiss each other.

[Reg]

Sara berating Barry for changing the timeline is funny. Sara had to be physically stopped at least twice that I can remember from going after Damien Darhk. Hell, the Legends in general seem to fuck up so much stuff in the timeline, but seems to never affect the future.

[Khime]

Sara berating Barry for changing the timeline is funny. Sara had to be physically stopped at least twice that I can remember from going after Damien Darhk. Hell, the Legends in general seem to fuck up so much stuff in the timeline, but seems to never affect the future.

Sara was probably mostly pissed because of that exact reason - she had to be stopped, and eventually stopped herself, but Barry seems to feel free to fuck up the timeline however he likes.

And the Legends have access to Gideon and future documents so they can see the impact of the changes and work to correct them. And once they're done, they hop into the timestream to time travel, which doesn't seem to "shatter the cup" in the same way that Flash's speedforce-based time travel does.

The fact that the Legends end up killing bunches of faceless mooks without changing the future can either be seen as sloppy writing, or a testament to the ultimate meaninglessness of the existence of most people in regards to their historical impact.

[Reg]

Sara was probably mostly pissed because of that exact reason - she had to be stopped, and eventually stopped herself, but Barry seems to feel free to fuck up the timeline however he likes.

And the Legends have access to Gideon and future documents so they can see the impact of the changes and work to correct them. And once they're done, they hop into the timestream to time travel, which doesn't seem to "shatter the cup" in the same way that Flash's speedforce-based time travel does.

The fact that the Legends end up killing bunches of faceless mooks without changing the future can either be seen as sloppy writing, or a testament to the ultimate meaninglessness of the existence of most people in regards to their historical impact.

But Sara played all high and mighty about how she had numerous chances to do something to save her sister but she didn't, when in reality she tried but failed.

Just terrible writing in Legends pouring over. They seem to do whatever, and lucky them, no chance. Barry saves one woman and shit storm.

[Xilurm]

I don't like the whole "can't trust him/me".

So if I'm understanding this correctly, everyone is like "nah fuck this, he traveled through time to save his mom. What a goddamn traitor! Don't trust him one bit. He could stab you in the back at any moment."

And why do I get the feeling that recording has nothing to do with FP.

[Kalcheus]

But Sara played all high and mighty about how she had numerous chances to do something to save her sister but she didn't, when in reality she tried but failed.

I think what she meant was that as captain of the waverider she could've gone back at any point she wanted to in an attempt to kill Darkh or save Laurel. While she's been directly tempted a couple times (and stopped), she easily could've intervened by now on her own.

[Jetstream]

I think what she meant was that as captain of the waverider she could've gone back at any point she wanted to in an attempt to kill Darkh or save Laurel. While she's been directly tempted a couple times (and stopped), she easily could've intervened by now on her own.

Eh. I'm with them on this one honestly. The Legends crew really has no right to bitch at Barry about this. They jacked up the timeline a bunch of times in season 1, and it was only fixed 'cuz of Gideon. Barry cocked up the Timeline one time, and he didn't have a Time Master telling him not to do it, or bailing him out.

Everyone else has a right to be pissy, but the Legends crew really should be a bit more sympathetic :P They erased loved ones a bunch of times! Time Travel's fuckin' hard.

[apepi]

Barry is at least partially responsible. If not for his actions things wouldn't have changed. As such his actions did have some kind of impact on those other lives and how they turned out.

I see it as people making decisions in their lives that you never knew about that could easily influence your life. It is kind of the same thing here, expect they do know how it changed their lives, and that is more the problem.

[Khime]

I don't like the whole "can't trust him/me".

So if I'm understanding this correctly, everyone is like "nah fuck this, he traveled through time to save his mom. What a goddamn traitor! Don't trust him one bit. He could stab you in the back at any moment."

And why do I get the feeling that recording has nothing to do with FP.

I think the message was more along the lines of "Hey, Legends. The 2016 you're returning to may not be 100% the one you remember. Don't trust that anything you remember about anyone is actually the case anymore." And while Oliver is the one who made the call to keep it a secret, Team Leader Barry is the one who got blamed for keeping secrets yet again. The question of "What is he still not telling us?" is a very real one at that point. We the audience aren't aware of any other secrets, but everyone else is now wondering how else Barry changed their lives and is keeping it from them "for their own good."

I do think the message had to do with Flashpoint, but I'm still not sure why Barry waited until 2056 to tell Captain Hunter. Did he send that message so he and Oliver wouldn't get mind controlled? Maybe 2056 was the earliest he could do so after the Dominators conquered the Earth?

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I see it as people making decisions in their lives that you never knew about that could easily influence your life. It is kind of the same thing here, expect they do know how it changed their lives, and that is more the problem.

Barry's been told repeatedly that time travel is dangerous, and can have unintended consequences. Barry makes the decision to time travel anyway, and Cisco's brother dies, and many more people's live are impacted.

Larry's been told repeatedly that drinking and driving is dangerous. Larry makes the decision to drink and drive anyway, and Crisco's brother dies, and many more people's live are impacted. Is he not responsible for the results of his decisions, even though he did not fully grasp all of the potential outcomes when he made that decision?

[Deleted]

So much hypocrisy in this episode, especially from Cisco and Sara, and i don't even want to start with Diggle, wtf, ''You took my daughter away from me'', nice angle you are looking from, you forgot to continue with ''BUT YOU GAVE ME A SON", you miss that part, and the rest of Legends crew, how many times they screw the time line and a super computer safe their ass?, this episode prove how fragile the relationship Barry have with other ''crime fighting partners'' is

[Svifnymr]

Eh. I'm with them on this one honestly. The Legends crew really has no right to bitch at Barry about this. They jacked up the timeline a bunch of times in season 1, and it was only fixed 'cuz of Gideon. Barry cocked up the Timeline one time, and he didn't have a Time Master telling him not to do it, or bailing him out.

On top of that, Barry changed the timeline, understood his mistake and fixed his change, but there were repercussions. Legends has changed/ influenced many events throughout time with no attempt to return to fix anything. The Waverider operates under the rule that you don't return to the same time again, once changed always changed, perhaps to avoid the teacup fracturing effect of Flashpoint.

So yeah, Legends can mess up everything and just be like "well, don't want to mess anything up", while ignoring all the changes they've made, then come down on Barry for trying to fix his mistake? Bleh.

And I hope they remember all this shit when they meet RF.

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I think the message was more along the lines of "Hey, Legends. The 2016 you're returning to may not be 100% the one you remember. Don't trust that anything you remember about anyone is actually the case anymore." And while Oliver is the one who made the call to keep it a secret, Team Leader Barry is the one who got blamed for keeping secrets yet again.

The main issue I have there is that they had a discussion about Flashpoint, the TEAM decided they didn't want to know! Sure, he didn't spell it our right when he returned to the current time after living in Flashpoint, he took a couple weeks while he tired to figure things out. Then they had a discussion and everyone agreed they didn't want to know...

The question of "What is he still not telling us?" is a very real one at that point. We the audience aren't aware of any other secrets, but everyone else is now wondering how else Barry changed their lives and is keeping it from them "for their own good."

Somewhat, but it's like the "we can't tell Iris who Flash is, it'll put her in danger" stuff, it just feels like manufactured drama rather than organic tension among a group of people.

I do think the message had to do with Flashpoint, but I'm still not sure why Barry waited until 2056 to tell Captain Hunter. Did he send that message so he and Oliver wouldn't get mind controlled? Maybe 2056 was the earliest he could do so after the Dominators conquered the Earth?

The alien invasion that the Time Masters were avoiding wasn't Dominators, right? Also, 2056 seems well after the newspaper of Flash disappearing (which I had assumed was only a headline because he went back to stop RF and was unmade when RF killed his mother, but now who the fuck knows) so maybe the Flash doesn't disappear entirely.

[Gemini Soul]

The whole Iris name not being on the article any more could easily be explained by her changing jobs, like working at the reopened Star labs with her husband and brother.

[Svifnymr]

The whole Iris name not being on the article any more could easily be explained by her changing jobs, like working at the reopened Star labs with her husband and brother.

Yeah, I'm not worried about the by-line changing. Though maybe I should rewatch Flash to see if I can freeze frame the newspaper to see the QC article too.

Also, I could have sworn one of the big shots of the warehouse looked like the Justice League arch, but saw no mention of it, so maybe I just imagined it.

[Khime]

The main issue I have there is that they had a discussion about Flashpoint, the TEAM decided they didn't want to know! Sure, he didn't spell it our right when he returned to the current time after living in Flashpoint, he took a couple weeks while he tired to figure things out. Then they had a discussion and everyone agreed they didn't want to know...

Well, to nitpick, Barry said "I will tell you what's different, all of you, if you wanna know." and the response was "We all talked about it, Barry, and we don't want to know what our lives were like in Flashpoint." But that's not really relevant.

Yes, they said they didn't want to know, because it couldn't be changed, so they'd have to live with that. But since then, some of what's changed has come to light, both pre-Flashpoint and during Flashpoint, and whether or not they wanted to know, they know now. And they blame Barry for it. So yeah, they really shouldn't be suspicious about what other changes he might've made that he's not telling them about, but to them it might now look like Barry gave them that choice to avoid taking the blame, rather than for their own peace of mind. They're being emotional, not rational.

And remember, this is an episode of The Flash, and Barry is always to blame for everything that goes wrong in everyone else's lives, no matter what. Notice that the only voice of reason was from Oliver, who is from another show?

The alien invasion that the Time Masters were avoiding wasn't Dominators, right? Also, 2056 seems well after the newspaper of Flash disappearing (which I had assumed was only a headline because he went back to stop RF and was unmade when RF killed his mother, but now who the fuck knows) so maybe the Flash doesn't disappear entirely.

Barry vanishes in 2024, but an older Barry sends a message from 2056, so he must've reappeared at some point. Vandal Savage conquers the world in 2166, and the Thanagarians attack earth in 2175, both over a century after that message.

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Also, I could have sworn one of the big shots of the warehouse looked like the Justice League arch, but saw no mention of it, so maybe I just imagined it.

The warehouse from the crossover was totally the Hall of Justice. The original Hall of Justice was modeled after the Cincinnati Union Terminal back in 1973, and for the crossover episode they explicitly used stock footage of that building and altered it to add the fountain out front in order to make it look just like it did in the cartoons.

[Svifnymr]

They're being emotional, not rational.

It's also amusing if you consider that the episodes aren't really back to back time wise. Not like Cisco says "you're a bastard" after learning it, then an alien ship crashes. There was probably a week in between episodes where Cisco just wandered around muttering and whining about his brother. :-p

Barry vanishes in 2024, but an older Barry sends a message from 2056, so he must've reappeared at some point. Vandal Savage conquers the world in 2166, and the Thanagarians attack earth in 2175, both over a century after that message.

Thanagarians! I should have remembered that. I was pretty sure it was different aliens, but didn't feel like looking up details. But yeah, original idea was that in 2024, Flash disappeared to race back to fight RF, thus disappearing, but they never really said he reappeared or not, I'd just figured originally he didn't return because he was unmade but then RF remade him but... whatever, who knows.

[Gemini Soul]

Well, to nitpick, Barry said "I will tell you what's different, all of you, if you wanna know." and the response was "We all talked about it, Barry, and we don't want to know what our lives were like in Flashpoint." But that's not really relevant.

Yes, they said they didn't want to know, because it couldn't be changed, so they'd have to live with that. But since then, some of what's changed has come to light, both pre-Flashpoint and during Flashpoint, and whether or not they wanted to know, they know now. And they blame Barry for it. So yeah, they really shouldn't be suspicious about what other changes he might've made that he's not telling them about, but to them it might now look like Barry gave them that choice to avoid taking the blame, rather than for their own peace of mind. They're being emotional, not rational.

And remember, this is an episode of The Flash, and Barry is always to blame for everything that goes wrong in everyone else's lives, no matter what. Notice that the only voice of reason was from Oliver, who is from another show? Barry vanishes in 2024, but an older Barry sends a message from 2056, so he must've reappeared at some point. Vandal Savage conquers the world in 2166, and the Thanagarians attack earth in 2175, both over a century after that message.

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The warehouse from the crossover was totally the Hall of Justice. The original Hall of Justice was modeled after the Cincinnati Union Terminal back in 1973, and for the crossover episode they explicitly used stock footage of that building and altered it to add the fountain out front in order to make it look just like it did in the cartoons.

Also ironic how one of the main reasons he undid FP was to save Wallys life, a fact none of them seem to either know about or grasp.