Trump to Announce Carrier Plant Will Keep Jobs in U.S.

[Paranoid Android]

Trump has numerous times implied he wants to default on the national debt. Might as well boost the national debt as high as possible, before he destroys the economy. What do you think the standard currency for the world will be, the yuan or Euro?

Well defaulting on debt is his modus operandi.

[Felya]

It's simple. NAFTA enticed factories to save money and move to Mexico, what incentive do companies have to stay in America if they will save millions? You either repeal NAFTA or you give them Tax breaks. And who signed NAFTA into law? Bill Clinton, he could have stopped it but instead he let the Republican Congress have their way.

Bush had a signing ceremony for NAFTA before Clinton was president. A presidential veto can be and would have been overturned by congress. You have no clue what you are talking about...

Also, the two partners in NAFTA are by far our two largest exporters. It would cost all of those people jobs...

[zenkai]

Keep 1,000 jobs? Carrier never intended to leave, they just held 1,000 jobs hostage to get subsidies. They didn't decide to stay for 700k when leaving = 65 million. They never intended to leave, they just wanted 700k in subsidies and were willing to threaten 1,000 American jobs to get it.

That's what batman was alluding too but you are incapable of connecting the dots so I spelled it out for you.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/29/bu...n-us.html?_r=0

When Carrier announced in February that the two Indiana factories would be closing, it did offer benefits to employees facing layoffs, including paying for them to go back to school and retrain for other careers. Even with that, however, once the layoffs were to begin in mid-2017, most of the workers would have had a hard time finding jobs that paid anywhere near the $20 to $25 an hour that veteran line workers earn.
Journalism that matters.


Carrier is best known for its air-conditioners, but it also sells a variety of other heating and cooling equipment for homes and businesses, like the gas furnaces and fan coils for electric furnaces made at the Indianapolis factory. The jobs in Indiana Mr. Trump has referred to are in two separate sites — the Carrier plant in Indianapolis, with 1,400 employees, and a United Technologies factory in Huntington, Ind., with 700.

While Carrier will forfeit some $65 million a year in savings the move was supposed to generate, that’s a small price to pay to avoid the public relations damage from moving the jobs as well as a possible threat to United Technologies’ far-larger military contracting business.

Yup, never intended to leave, they knew Trump was going to win and had it all planned out in Feb. to make a deal with him.

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More irony here in these two quotes. You don't know the details but you confidently report that keeping these people off welfare, while the corporate welfare may cost more to the taxpayers.

How does people staying in the US working and paying taxes cost more than putting them on welfare that's 100% tax payer funded #liberallogic.

[Paranoid Android]

I swear in less than a year when we had a thread about corporate taxes, CEO's wages, Apple with Foxconn. All I hear was it was the right of businesses to make as much money as they can. Good ole capitalism. Now all sudden, we should kill the free market and make companies keep jobs in the U.S. or otherwise impose some huge tariff.

[zenkai]

Bush had a signing ceremony for NAFTA before Clinton was president. A presidential veto can be and would have been overturned by congress. You have no clue what you are talking about...

Also, the two partners in NAFTA are by far our two largest exporters. It would cost all of those people jobs...

Are you saying Clinton didn't sign NAFTA into law?

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-h...igned-into-law

Kid, I was watching it get signed into law by Bill Clinton when you where sucking your Thumb watching teletubbies. This is why you're not worthy replying too.

[DeadmanWalking]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/29/bu...n-us.html?_r=0

When Carrier announced in February that the two Indiana factories would be closing, it did offer benefits to employees facing layoffs, including paying for them to go back to school and retrain for other careers. Even with that, however, once the layoffs were to begin in mid-2017, most of the workers would have had a hard time finding jobs that paid anywhere near the $20 to $25 an hour that veteran line workers earn.
Journalism that matters.


Carrier is best known for its air-conditioners, but it also sells a variety of other heating and cooling equipment for homes and businesses, like the gas furnaces and fan coils for electric furnaces made at the Indianapolis factory. The jobs in Indiana Mr. Trump has referred to are in two separate sites — the Carrier plant in Indianapolis, with 1,400 employees, and a United Technologies factory in Huntington, Ind., with 700.

While Carrier will forfeit some $65 million a year in savings the move was supposed to generate, that’s a small price to pay to avoid the public relations damage from moving the jobs as well as a possible threat to United Technologies’ far-larger military contracting business.

Yup, never intended to leave, they knew Trump was going to win and had it all planned out in Feb. to make a deal with him.

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How does people staying in the US working and paying taxes cost more than putting them on welfare that's 100% tax payer funded #liberallogic.

They never intended to leave regardless who won the presidency, they just wanted subsidies. The only difference is Trump jumped dick first into it yelling, "I'll save you!!!" And Carrier took advantage of that. Even the GOP isn't thrilled about this deal as they don't like a president giving 1 company with only 1,000 jobs what they want as all companies will look at the advantage of holding jobs hostage to get tax payer subsidies.

[kamuimac]

I wonder what the deal is.

you dont have to think to hard - owner of plant will get donation from state - this way rich will be richer and poor idiots will have low paid jobs. such a win but idiots will rejoice while still working for minimum wage

[Tijuana]

Trump's track record when it comes to boycotting has been pretty abysmal, they don't solely rely on the US for sales so far he has not had any significant effect on them. Their stock price actually went up when he started attacking them, they are saving a tremendous amount of money by cutting jobs and moving to Mexico which also boost their bottom line in the short and long term.

Source for stock price going up, please. However, it makes logical sense that a company making moves to be more profitable would see their stock value increased. The figure I want to see, is SALES since the issue came up. I would be highly that US sales are down in the interim. Also, the US economy is the biggest mall in the world. Nobody disregards US sales figures in their business plans.

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They never intended to leave regardless who won the presidency, they just wanted subsidies. The only difference is Trump jumped dick first into it yelling, "I'll save you!!!" And Carrier took advantage of that. Even the GOP isn't thrilled about this deal as they don't like a president giving 1 company with only 1,000 jobs what they want as all companies will look at the advantage of holding jobs hostage to get tax payer subsidies.

What are you on about? They are building a factory in Mexico right now, and 1,000 jobs are going there, even after this deal. The deal only saved half the jobs.

[zenkai]

They never intended to leave regardless who won the presidency, they just wanted subsidies. The only difference is Trump jumped dick first into it yelling, "I'll save you!!!" And Carrier took advantage of that. Even the GOP isn't thrilled about this deal as they don't like a president giving 1 company with only 1,000 jobs what they want as all companies will look at the advantage of holding jobs hostage to get tax payer subsidies.

They never intended to save 65 million dollars. right...

[Draco-Onis]

Source for stock price going up, please. However, it makes logical sense that a company making moves to be more profitable would see their stock value increased. The figure I want to see, is SALES since the issue came up. I would be highly that US sales are down in the interim. Also, the US economy is the biggest mall in the world. Nobody disregards US sales figures in their business plans.

https://www.google.com/finance?q=UTX...B4fumAHcjIbIBw

In this election people were voting for the lesser of two evils, Donald Trump may have a big microphone but it seems that no one except for the few faithfuls are really listening.

[zenkai]

What are you on about? They are building a factory in Mexico right now, and 1,000 jobs are going there, even after this deal. The deal only saved half the jobs.

But but but it isn't real, it's all CGI, the factory doesn't exist!

[Kiri]

Well, since, according to Trump, 25 million out of 40 million are just 'a small fraction', that would mean that saving 1000 out of 2000 jobs is also just a small fraction, correct? So why are people so happy he could only keep a small fraction of the jobs in the US?

[Tijuana]

https://www.google.com/finance?q=UTX...B4fumAHcjIbIBw

In this election people were voting for the lesser of two evils, Donald Trump may have a big microphone but it seems that no one except for the few faithfuls are really listening.

You may be right. But, the people that won now hold all the power. Trump will get what he wants, regardless of how the left feels about it.

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Well, since, according to Trump, 25 million out of 40 million are just 'a small fraction', that would mean that saving 1000 out of 2000 jobs is also just a small fraction, correct? So why are people so happy he could only keep a small fraction of the jobs in the US?

Because we don't live our life playing word games, and we are happy to see 1,000 people not get their life turned upside down. Because we are not the worst people ever.

[Kiri]

Because we don't live our life playing word games, and we are happy to see 1,000 people not get their life turned upside down. Because we are not the worst people ever.

Hey, not my words, his. Just like he said he'd force them to keep all of them in the US. But he clearly does not plan to pursue those venues anymore, he already got himself a great deal there.
Though to be honest, their lives were not necessarily going to get turned upside down. They had a lot of advance notice, a nice severance package and retraining options. Not the greatest of situations, but one with potential.

[Tijuana]

Hey, not my words, his. Just like he said he'd force them to keep all of them in the US. But he clearly does not plan to pursue those venues anymore, he already got himself a great deal there.
Though to be honest, their lives were not necessarily going to get turned upside down. They had a lot of advance notice, a nice severance package and retraining options. Not the greatest of situations, but one with potential.

Yes, losing your job is a good thing, and nobody is happy to have not lost one. /pat

I mean, really, wtf are you talking about? I get it, you hate Trump. But, why is this not a good thing to you? Is it because you put your political ideology above the well being of others? Even the Liberals at CNN and the like are pleased to see this.

[unfilteredJW]

Yes, losing your job is a good thing, and nobody is happy to have not lost one. /pat

I mean, really, wtf are you talking about? I get it, you hate Trump. But, why is this not a good thing to you? Is it because you put your political ideology above the well being of others? Even the Liberals at CNN and the like are pleased to see this.

It's called seeing the forest for the trees.

[Draco-Onis]

You may be right. But, the people that won now hold all the power. Trump will get what he wants, regardless of how the left feels about it.

I agree this is really just a nice PR for Trump but no matter how many PR stunts Trump does these people will lose their jobs. You can't reverse globalism or automation no matter how hard you try, if we didn't have such a dysfunctional system we would be focused on training the American workforce for the future.

[Tijuana]

I agree this is really just a nice PR for Trump but no matter how many PR stunts Trump does these people will lose their jobs. You can't reverse globalism or automation no matter how hard you try, if we didn't have such a dysfunctional system we would be focused on training the American workforce for the future.

This is why the Democrats lost. They fail to see how US jobs were harmed by policies that can be reversed. Instead of trying to solve the problem, the current administration tells people the jobs are never coming back. Trump spends like one day bullying Carrier, and now half those jobs are staying. What if every US president took similar actions every time a factory went to Mexico? How many more jobs would we have. What would the financial impact be of those jobs staying, via their spending, and via more worker demand?

From an ideological perspective, I'm not in favor of protectionism. However, when dealing with other nations that engage in that, I see no reason to not do it back to them.

[Kiri]

Yes, losing your job is a good thing, and nobody is happy to have not lost one. /pat

I mean, really, wtf are you talking about? I get it, you hate Trump. But, why is this not a good thing to you? Is it because you put your political ideology above the well being of others? Even the Liberals at CNN and the like are pleased to see this.

It is not a good thing, but losing it in a predictable manner with a good boost is preferable to doing so in an unpredictable manner. People here always act as if losing one's job immediately means 'welfare, forever', when it really does not. There are cases, of course, of chronic unemployment, but for the most part, the US always had a relatively high worker mobility. With subsidized re-training as offered by the package, these people have an easier time finding new jobs than all the others who are let go all over the country by other businesses day by day.

However, and that is what you are trying to spin here, I am not criticizing the fact that he saved these jobs. I am criticizing the fact that he did not save the other 1000, as promised. The tools to do so are still there and he could have held onto that hard course, yet did not. By reneging on it, he lost the other thousand and created a dangerous precedent for other companies. Even someone who supported Trumps announced policies should be allowed to criticize that, no?

[Tijuana]

It is not a good thing, but losing it in a predictable manner with a good boost is preferable to doing so in an unpredictable manner. People here always act as if losing one's job immediately means 'welfare, forever', when it really does not. There are cases, of course, of chronic unemployment, but for the most part, the US always had a relatively high worker mobility. With subsidized re-training as offered by the package, these people have an easier time finding new jobs than all the others who are let go all over the country by other businesses day by day.

However, and that is what you are trying to spin here, I am not criticizing the fact that he saved these jobs. I am criticizing the fact that he did not save the other 1000, as promised. The tools to do so are still there and he could have held onto that hard course, yet did not. By reneging on it, he lost the other thousand and created a dangerous precedent for other companies. Even someone who supported Trumps announced policies should be allowed to criticize that, no?

Ok, now we are getting somewhere. We have a complete and well thought out idea that has been presented. I love actual discussions! And taco bowls! (sorry couldn't resist)

I would make two points:

One, the man isn't even president yet so, he used the only tools he had: bullying, and a VP who was just governor of that state. Given the tools, I think this is a great result.

Two, the man isn't even president yet so, he will have 4 years, of which he will have unified government for at least 2 years, to do much more. If the left hated what Reagan accomplished, they are really, really not going to like what can be done without having to negotiate it all with an adversarial party.

I do strongly agree with your notion that a job is not the only one a person can have. However, all those lost jobs add up. Even though the person has a new job, the old job is no longer there to compete for their labor, which harms negotiations for all workers.