Is it time to return to 12 classes instead of 36 mini-classes?

[Exigent]

Obviously here's the solution.

Feral druids, you're just furry rogues. Remove feral from the game and offer druids the one-time option to class-change to rogue.
Survival hunters, you're just funky rogues. Remove survival from the game and offer hunters the one-time option to class-change to rogue.
Fury warriors, you're just platey rogues. Remove fury from the game and offer warriors the one-time option to class-change to rogue.

And so on.

[This is a non-serious post]

[Deleted]

the only way you will ever reach anything near perfect balance is by putting a softcap/diminishing returns on dps/healing/defenses. it would essentially make classes a cosmetic choice. nobody would like it because niches where classes perform very well wouldn't exist anymore.

[Deleted]

Something tells me you never tried any of these 9 specs...
- disc plays completely differently to holy (aswell as being our only hybrid healer)
- demo plays completely differently to the other 2 specs and is way more reliant on "pets" than any other spec ingame
- survival might have seemed like "just another bow spec prior to legion", but is now a whole other thing
... could go on and on about this, but you should be able to get my point from these.

I have played all those speccs, that's besides the point. We could introduce 2 new specs to each class and make them different and we'd have over 50 unique classes to balance, do you think that's a good idea? Just because we have the specs we currently have doesn't mean that's the way it has to be and we can only ever add to it, not take anything away.

- - - Updated - - -

By that logic, you could reduce the game to Tank, Heal, DD specs and abolish classes entirely. Come up with something better.

Making extreme examples is no way to counter an argument. By that logic I can claim that you want blizzard to introduce 700 new specs cause you seem to think more is always better. I don't think 3 specs are enough, I do however think 36 are too many.

[Krbl]

I guess with 12 Specs everything would be easier, but which Specs would you remove?

It is not possible to remove a single spec without community wide outage, I guess.

So for better or worse, we are stuck with 36 Specs.

From the point of view of balancing, it should even be easier, as each spec can be tuned on its own.

The balance patches you are seeing are mainly due to the fact that legion brought the biggest class rework of all time (which also brought back talent trees btw).

[Mehrunes]

This isn't even Legion change, so yeah, not really convinced the sky is falling because of Legion.

Making extreme examples is no way to counter an argument. By that logic I can claim that you want blizzard to introduce 700 new specs cause you seem to think more is always better. I don't think 3 specs are enough, I do however think 36 are too many.

Reductio ad absurdum is perfectly fine way to counter an argument. As for your counter use of it, @huth didn't say anything about adding more specs or more being always better. Their stance can very well be "what we have right now is OK" without swerving into either direction.

[Deleted]

This isn't even Legion change, so yeah, not really convinced the sky is falling because of Legion.




Reductio ad absurdum is perfectly fine way to counter an argument. As for your counter use of it, @huth didn't say anything about adding more specs or more being always better. Their stance can very well be "what we have right now is OK" without swerving into either direction.

Still a counterproductive way to hold a discussion, it was he who made the assumption that having 25 specs is somehow a bad idea just cause having 3 specs is a bad idea.

[Deleted]

I think that attempting to create 36 unique mini-classes IS one of the best things of Legion.

fixed your mistake. yw

[RobertMugabe]

The old system was shit. It didn't make any sense as a mage to have frostbolt, firebolt and arcane missiles at the same time

[Dracullus]

Making artifact power spec wide is one the biggest problem in Legion. It create problems that didn't existed before. I even think they may change it later to character wide (it's simple, just add points from every weapon that you earned and reset all weapons on patch day). I think in the next expansion we will get someting like class relic - same for all specs.

[Hopebringer]

2 ways to solve this is. Returning to 12 classes is one of them.

Another solution is to remove 9 needless specs from the game and only focus on balancing 27 different specs. We don't need disc, fury, arcane, demo, survival, enhancement, balance, subtetly, unholy for instance.

This. On so many levels.

I would think 12 classes and 2 specs per. 24 Total is much more manageable.

For those crying about the 9 other alts they have... not my monkey not my circus.

[lolpve]

I think they just need to put more effort and competence into raid balancing. They don't have a handle on it. As for pvp, many specs simply aren't designed well for pvp and trying to make them "viable" only hurts the game for other classes. This is mostly pertinent to specs that only offer damage or tankiness. PvP would be better going back to the TBC model of having maybe 1 or 2 specs viable for each class.

[Deleted]

Current state of balancing will be expensive for blizzard to do. Bet they didn't see that coming..

[huth]

Still a counterproductive way to hold a discussion, it was he who made the assumption that having 25 specs is somehow a bad idea just cause having 3 specs is a bad idea.

No. In fact, i didn't say anything about any number of specs or classes being good or bad. I said that your argument is bad.

[Varlak]

Thats why I prefer class system like eq2. Paladin are tanks and they spec according to their need ( solo, grouping, Mtanking or off tanking ) but no mather what they are tanks.

Cleric are plate healer and they spec for wathever they need to ( more dps , utility. Toughness etc) but in the end they remain healers.

That way your not ending beeing healing your group while you wanted to DPS because holy is more viable then ret.

But its too late for WoW, they cant make a 180 degree turn around without pissig off too many players.

[Traveler Voltin]

2 ways to solve this is. Returning to 12 classes is one of them.

Another solution is to remove 9 needless specs from the game and only focus on balancing 27 different specs. We don't need disc, fury, arcane, demo, survival, enhancement, balance, subtetly, unholy for instance.

Go to hell. I like some of those specs

[huth]

Thats why I prefer class system like eq2. Paladin are tanks and they spec according to their need ( solo, grouping, Mtanking or off tanking ) but no mather what they are tanks.

Cleric are plate healer and they spec for wathever they need to ( more dps , utility. Toughness etc) but in the end they remain healers.

That way your not ending beeing healing your group while you wanted to DPS because holy is more viable then ret.

But its too late for WoW, they cant make a 180 degree turn around without pissig off too many players.

And if your EQ2 Paladin ends up not being viable, you have to start over, instead of just switching to a different spec.

[Deleted]

I think there should be even more possible combinations. Think about a system like in skyrim (with a balance, that is).

[Ham on Rye]

There would still be 36 specs, just not as isolated as they are at the moment.

So baddies in pug raids can run shitty half-specs and hold you back? no thanks. The talent system we have now is a vast improvement over the stupid trees.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

No its not.

[Deleted]

2 ways to solve this is. Returning to 12 classes is one of them.

Another solution is to remove 9 needless specs from the game and only focus on balancing 27 different specs. We don't need disc, fury, arcane, demo, survival, enhancement, balance, subtetly, unholy for instance.

Poor Thrall can no more hammer critters with doomhammer and you are telling him to respec elemental . Enhancement is one of the best specs right now and IMO is the best melee and the funniest by far. FFS i would spent hours in a dummy only hearing the sound effects of the abilities. Also, Arcane is what defines a mage, in fact, the frost and fire magic (not element) comes from Arcane, not from Ragnaros/Frozen Neptulon, so it makes no sense, they simply wouldn't be mages, no matter if it's the least used spec. Between arms and fury I would delete arms, for 2Handed specs you have unholy dk and ret pallys, better with 2Wield - 2Handed (In fact is the one an only reason that I made a warrior, I don't like that my abilities appear all the same, like simple melee blows in different directions). With Survival I agree with you, the main point of having a Hunter is having a ranged dps with little to 0 cast time.