Legion is a grind because...

[pkm]

It just occurred to me that maybe (a big fucking maybe in fact) legion is a grindy af expansion because of the fact that the (burning) legion is limitless and endless in numbers.

Is this blizzards idea of a sick joke?

[Sylvaeres]

It's grindy because players cried endlessly that WoD had no content. You guys wanted content, you got contebt. Legion is more of a 1 main with 1 alt expansion

[Deleted]

Every MMORPG is a grind. That is its very nature.

[Deleted]

Well yeah MMOs are grindy but Legion is the grindiest WoW have ever been.

And how its so unfriendly to alts and off specs, thats why I quit. I usually loved to play several classes but as how much you fall behind and can never really catch up with "main specs or people" nah thanks.

[Deleted]

Well yeah MMOs are grindy but Legion is the grindiest WoW have ever been.

*cough*

Have you played classic?

[Deleted]

Well yeah MMOs are grindy but Legion is the grindiest WoW have ever been.

'member classic?
'member how you needed to grind crusader enchantment which was dropped only by ~5 mobs in the whole game?
'member how you needed to grind reputation to be able to get to naxxramas without an exorbital ammount of money needed?
'member how you needed to go out and kill metric fucktons of something for reputation in general, due to the lack of quests, and the nonexistence of daily quests?
'member how you needed to grind up the last few levels due to the lack of actually working quests you didn't need a whole group for?

'member TBC?
'member how you needed to grind reputation to be able to do heroic dungeons to be able to do karazhan with every single character?

[Ghrog]

'member classic?
'member how you needed to grind crusader enchantment which was dropped only by ~5 mobs in the whole game?
'member how you needed to grind reputation to be able to get to naxxramas without an exorbital ammount of money needed?
'member how you needed to go out and kill metric fucktons of something for reputation in general, due to the lack of quests, and the nonexistence of daily quests?
'member how you needed to grind up the last few levels due to the lack of actually working quests you didn't need a whole group for?

'member TBC?
'member how you needed to grind reputation to be able to do heroic dungeons to be able to do karazhan with every single character?

Exactly... now I admittedly wasn't around for MoP or WoD, so I can't speak to those, but aside from them, this is the least grindy and most off-spec friendly I have ever seen wow.

Even alts are better off now than ever before (Again, with possible exceptions of MoP and WoD) and they are about to be even more-so with 7.1.5 and buying artifact knowledge.

[force18]

I honestly haven't even leveled any professions in this expac because I don't like them being gated behind dungeons. Even though I can do them on normal I still won't because it is a silly system

I still love the expac and play it everyday, but I notice I don't play it as hard and will use the 18hr class instant finish quest on even the simplest world quests now just to complete the emissary chests lol

[Pann]

It is a grind because it is cheaper to create one bit of content that will be re-used five times than it is to create five sets of content that will be used once.

[Lime]

Exactly... now I admittedly wasn't around for MoP or WoD, so I can't speak to those, but aside from them, this is the least grindy and most off-spec friendly I have ever seen wow.

Even alts are better off now than ever before (Again, with possible exceptions of MoP and WoD) and they are about to be even more-so with 7.1.5 and buying artifact knowledge.

What?... No.

Both Cata and Wrath were more alt friendly than this expansion. The only way this could be more alt friendly is if you get insanely lucky with titanforge drops, but that's not common. So, for the average player, the catch up was so much easier in those 2. It doesn't matter how much AK you have or will be able to get, the fact is, you still have to grind AP to catch up, something Wrath and Cata let you skip entirely.

To simplify that - Wrath and Cata was built just around getting the gear for alts, Legion was built around getting the gear and AP for alts.

[Ghrog]

What?... No.

Both Cata and Wrath were more alt friendly than this expansion. The only way this could be more alt friendly is if you get insanely lucky with titanforge drops, but that's not common. So, for the average player, the catch up was so much easier in those 2. It doesn't matter how much AK you have or will be able to get, the fact is, you still have to grind AP to catch up, something Wrath and Cata let you skip entirely.

To simplify that - Wrath and Cata was built just around getting the gear for alts, Legion was built around getting the gear and AP for alts.

I think you may have a nasty case of rose tinted goggles there my friend.

In both of those expansions, there wasn't awesome catch up tools like Mythic+ and LFR that allowed you to gear up to raid quality gear with the same speed that there is now. Also world questing allwoing for a greater variety in gearing that the old dailies never offered)

I'm a bit of an altoholic, I play semi casually (10-15 hours a week) and have gotten 3 toons raid ready (1 Mythic level Shaman, 1 borderline heroic level DK, and a Warlock that's ready to start normal raiding) and a 4th that is a farming toon that I could have geared for normal raids in a few hours if I wanted.

Wrath after the ICC dungeons came out... maybe on par with today, but outside of that, the proof of the pudding is in the tasting.

The ONLY thing holding back Alts is AP, and honestly, once you hit that second gold trait, bonuses until you hit your 4th gold are pretty much minimal (a fraction of a percent difference in dps per trait)

And as I mentioned, even this one tiny speedbump is getting trivialized in 7.1.5

[Nythiz]

It's grindy because players cried endlessly that WoD had no content. You guys wanted content, you got contebt. Legion is more of a 1 main with 1 alt expansion

This.

And to be frank, its only as grindy as you want it to be.

Well yeah MMOs are grindy but Legion is the grindiest WoW have ever been.

And how its so unfriendly to alts and off specs, thats why I quit. I usually loved to play several classes but as how much you fall behind and can never really catch up with "main specs or people" nah thanks.

.
Legion is definitely not the grindiest this game has ever been. Classic, and to a certain extend even TBC were way worse.

As for alts. I somewhat agree that Legion hasn't been the best for this so far. But to be frank, I have 4 lvl 110s now and it's not too hard to keep up. M+ allow you to gear relatively easy if you need something, as do world quests. Biggest issue is that the artifact knowledge takes a while to catch up (although that becomes easier in 7.1.5 too) and the order hall resource requirements are quite demanding early on.

Not the worst alt expansion ever though. Grinding rep and getting gear on all your toons in Vanilla/TBC/Wrath was much more of a pain. And those expansion are glorified as the "best ever"

[Molis]

Well yeah MMOs are grindy but Legion is the grindiest WoW have ever been.

Sorry this is not true

[kary]

'member classic?
'member how you needed to grind crusader enchantment which was dropped only by ~5 mobs in the whole game?
'member how you needed to grind reputation to be able to get to naxxramas without an exorbital ammount of money needed?
'member how you needed to go out and kill metric fucktons of something for reputation in general, due to the lack of quests, and the nonexistence of daily quests?
'member how you needed to grind up the last few levels due to the lack of actually working quests you didn't need a whole group for?

'member TBC?
'member how you needed to grind reputation to be able to do heroic dungeons to be able to do karazhan with every single character?

In all fairness, you could do kara attunements in normal modes, and you didn't need to do the entire runs to get 2 of the items.

[pmkaboo]

quick summary of most wows problems:

no danger => no challenge => no fun

[Lane]

In both of those expansions, there wasn't awesome catch up tools like Mythic+ and LFR that allowed you to gear up to raid quality gear with the same speed that there is now.

Yes there was. It took maybe a week of running heroics in Wrath to get a full set of raid gear via dungeon currency. It's the single only expansion where I had multiple characters that were all raid ready and (with the exception of MoP which I did not play) I would argue it's still the most alt-friendly expansion to date.

I honestly don't know how anyone can consider Legion alt friendly, especially if they played during Wrath. It's like night and day.

[tikcol]

Mythic+ , definition of grind

[Lime]

I think you may have a nasty case of rose tinted goggles there my friend.

In both of those expansions, there wasn't awesome catch up tools like Mythic+ and LFR that allowed you to gear up to raid quality gear with the same speed that there is now. Also world questing allwoing for a greater variety in gearing that the old dailies never offered)

I'm a bit of an altoholic, I play semi casually (10-15 hours a week) and have gotten 3 toons raid ready (1 Mythic level Shaman, 1 borderline heroic level DK, and a Warlock that's ready to start normal raiding) and a 4th that is a farming toon that I could have geared for normal raids in a few hours if I wanted.

Wrath after the ICC dungeons came out... maybe on par with today, but outside of that, the proof of the pudding is in the tasting.

The ONLY thing holding back Alts is AP, and honestly, once you hit that second gold trait, bonuses until you hit your 4th gold are pretty much minimal (a fraction of a percent difference in dps per trait)

And as I mentioned, even this one tiny speedbump is getting trivialized in 7.1.5

Overuse of the buzzword "rose tented goggles? Check.

There wasn't LFR in Cataclysm? Really now?... And LFR / Mythic+ is pretty much irrelevant. It used to be, Heroic Dungeons -> Raid. Yes, it was as simple as that. Having other paths does not magically decrease the time it takes to catch up, considering that once LFD came out, you could spam Heroics all day, even past their "once a day" limit. And then there's the argument for the catchup gear that could be bought from PvE currency, which eliminated some RNG.

But I'm starting to see your argument. You're basing your argument of how long it takes an alt to reach casual content, I am not, as I couldn't care less about casual content in terms of catchup, as your role doesn't really matter that much. I'm speaking of how long it takes your alt characters to be competitive with good players.

There's a reason why so many are dreading re-rolling for the guild in this expansion more so than other expansions.

[MoanaLisa]

I never really know what to say to people who confuse doing stuff that they really don't have to do with being grindy. I'm doing fine and not grinding anything. I play when I like, do what I like and stuff moves along. If you are being forced to maintain a lot of alts by a guild for raiding purposes, personally I'd look for another guild. If you enjoy playing alts then the complaint seems to be they'll have something to do.

None of it makes any sense at all if you approach the game with your head screwed onto your shoulders.

Play. Have fun. Don't take it all so seriously.

[kary]

Yes there was. It took maybe a week of running heroics in Wrath to get a full set of raid gear via dungeon currency. It's the single only expansion where I had multiple characters that were all raid ready and (with the exception of MoP which I did not play) I would argue it's still the most alt-friendly expansion to date.

I honestly don't know how anyone can consider Legion alt friendly, especially if they played during Wrath. It's like night and day.

Funny enough, WoTLK was the expansion where you sat down and mindlessly grinded currency to get gear, and it's not regarded as grindy.

- - - Updated - - -

I never really know what to say to people who confuse doing stuff that they really don't have to do with being grindy. I'm doing fine and not grinding anything. I play when I like, do what I like and stuff moves along. If you are being forced to maintain a lot of alts by a guild for raiding purposes, personally I'd look for another guild. If you enjoy playing alts then the complaint seems to be they'll have something to do.

None of it makes any sense at all if you approach the game with your head screwed onto your shoulders.

Play. Have fun. Don't take it all so seriously.

Exactly, log in once a week if that's all you want to log in. People are so dumb with their addiction it's silly.