[WINDWALKER] 7.X Discussion thread

[Staplecrab]

Theoretically the functional changes that benefit Blizzard making it easier for them to tune things in the future, should benefit us also. Whether that happens in reality will remain to be seen.

Do you really think the change makes it significantly easier for Blizzard to tune WW? It seems like modelling cooldown-snapshotting versus no-cooldown-snapshotting is trivial. And while having less FoF and SotW in the Serenity rotation might mean they could buff those skills, that would just wind up improving WW AoE damage. It seems like the problems with the spec right now are somewhat lackluster single target and some scaling issues, neither of which would be addressed by changes to our big, hard-hitting cleave spells without elevating our AoE further, right? We're AoE monsters regardless.

I'm sure that I'm just biased and salty, but it seems like Blizzard are just taking away a fun toy from WW for no other reason than 'consistency' which feels like a weak excuse for messing with a much beloved talent mid-expansion. I appreciate that the change isn't mechanically meaningful over a long patchwerk raid encounter, but it certainly feels bad generally (casting less FoF and SotW doesn't make me feel good) and hurts burst on very short encounters and longer AoE scenarios (where using FoF/SotW during Serenity will enable you to do so again immediately afterwards thanks to the reduced cooldown, but the adds are dead in a circumstance where the cooldown resets).

[Deleted]

Ah, I love the Serenity nerf. Always better when unfun(or at least way less fun than WDP) talents don't give most DPS.

[Deleted]

Ah, I love the Serenity nerf. Always better when unfun(or at least way less fun than WDP) talents don't give most DPS.

Fun is subjective. Having Serenity be slightly higher DPS in exchange for taking more skill, with stuff like the bracers pushing WDP over in terms of DPS) is fine design by me - and without the SEF bugs, I think that's how the two were balanced. Got to wait for all the changes together before rioting, though I find it hard to reason how they'll buff Serenity without making the burst or cleave even more stupid.

[Deleted]

Pls dont make me take the @#%$ SEF, dont believe that this will go on live like rip-ing pvp FoF stun during PTR few weeks ago.

[Velimere]

Pls dont make me take the @#%$ SEF, dont believe that this will go on live like rip-ing pvp FoF stun during PTR few weeks ago.

I honestly hope it doesn't make it into live either. I've worked so hard and am continuing to work hard on mastering the application of Serenity, and if they ruin it like the current undocumented PTR change, I won't have that anymore which will take a lot of the fun out of this game for me.

[Beingbob]

Ah, I love the Serenity nerf. Always better when unfun(or at least way less fun than WDP) talents don't give most DPS.

Without Serenity WW is just as dumb as nearly every other spec in the game these days. How is WDP fun? It's just another skill with hardly any interaction or thought behind it.

[Deleted]

New secondary stat values on the PTR.

Critical Strike - Now requires 400 rating per 1% Critical Strike, up from 350.
Haste - Now requires 375 rating per 1% Haste, up from 325.
Mastery - Now requires 400 rating per 1 Mastery, up from 350.
Versatility - Now requires 475 rating per 1% damage and healing increase, up from 400. Now requires 950 rating per 1% damage taken reduction, up from 800.

With current WW scaling issues, is this going to make them even worse? Since for all our secondary values currently on live are ~50-60% of agility already, not to mention woeful WDPS values below rogues with a 1.8 attack speed!!!!

I've tried finding an option within simcraft to adjust the value of the stats to see, but i can't find where to do it if there is one, can someone help or is that a simcraft dev option only?

[Darkoxa]

Hi guys, reading a lot guides for WW of this posts, currently have 872 ilvl with my monk, but i dont to get better DPS in burst and try... I try keep the mastery, and Hit combos, but There comes a time when I am left without energy and Chi... and my dps low a lot in combat.. I dont use Sereniy for a simple reason, i have legendry of SEF and keep SEF the max time possible

[Deleted]

Hi guys, reading a lot guides for WW of this posts, currently have 872 ilvl with my monk, but i dont to get better DPS in burst and try... I try keep the mastery, and Hit combos, but There comes a time when I am left without energy and Chi... and my dps low a lot in combat.. I dont use Sereniy for a simple reason, i have legendry of SEF and keep SEF the max time possible

Have you tried comparing SEF and Serenity DPS on a dummy? That's the only way to tell which is better if you have the bracers.

The spec does have some downtime when you're low on energy/chi. Doing nothing is not always a bad thing temporarily. Other than that, I presume you're simming for gear upgrades/stat weights? Are your abilities the same percent of your DPS that they are on the sims?

[Xiaojin]

With current WW scaling issues, is this going to make them even worse? Since for all our secondary values currently on live are ~50-60% of agility already, not to mention woeful WDPS values below rogues with a 1.8 attack speed!!!!

Primary Stats are supposed to be significantly more valuable anyway so that gear with a significantly higher item level really is an upgrade even if the secondary stat distribution is worse. Things like Fire Mages who value crit more than int are actually kind of a design failure. All the changes to stat rating conversions and itemization are supposed to make item level more meaningful again. This is actually a good goal if Blizzard manages to achieve that. Side note: I'd rather see all three primary stats on jewelry instead of increasing jewelry's stat budget per item level, but oh well...

But regardless of those gear changes, to actually fix any scaling issues, the class/spec itself has to be changed anyway, not the gear. People don't complain that nobody is getting any stronger with gear, but people complain that they do not gain power as quickly as other classes/specs and thus fall behind eventually.

[Deleted]

New secondary stat values on the PTR.

Critical Strike - Now requires 400 rating per 1% Critical Strike, up from 350.
Haste - Now requires 375 rating per 1% Haste, up from 325.
Mastery - Now requires 400 rating per 1 Mastery, up from 350.
Versatility - Now requires 475 rating per 1% damage and healing increase, up from 400. Now requires 950 rating per 1% damage taken reduction, up from 800.

With current WW scaling issues, is this going to make them even worse? Since for all our secondary values currently on live are ~50-60% of agility already, not to mention woeful WDPS values below rogues with a 1.8 attack speed!!!!

I've tried finding an option within simcraft to adjust the value of the stats to see, but i can't find where to do it if there is one, can someone help or is that a simcraft dev option only?

They are buffing primary to keep the player power equal or better in the next build.

[Babylonius]

New secondary stat values on the PTR.

Critical Strike - Now requires 400 rating per 1% Critical Strike, up from 350.
Haste - Now requires 375 rating per 1% Haste, up from 325.
Mastery - Now requires 400 rating per 1 Mastery, up from 350.
Versatility - Now requires 475 rating per 1% damage and healing increase, up from 400. Now requires 950 rating per 1% damage taken reduction, up from 800.

With current WW scaling issues, is this going to make them even worse? Since for all our secondary values currently on live are ~50-60% of agility already, not to mention woeful WDPS values below rogues with a 1.8 attack speed!!!!

I've tried finding an option within simcraft to adjust the value of the stats to see, but i can't find where to do it if there is one, can someone help or is that a simcraft dev option only?

This, in theory, helps WW climb back up in the rankings since we already focused on Agility, and these changes make Agility even stronger in relation to the other stats. It drops WW DPS, but it drops other spec's even more. Some specs lost 15-25% damage from this change alone, by my theorycrafting, it drops WW about 8-9%.

[Deleted]

Currently on PTR even with the bugs to SEF, is it better than Serenity with the Nerf/redesign?

[Darkoxa]

Primary Stats are supposed to be significantly more valuable anyway so that gear with a significantly higher item level really is an upgrade even if the secondary stat distribution is worse. Things like Fire Mages who value crit more than int are actually kind of a design failure. All the changes to stat rating conversions and itemization are supposed to make item level more meaningful again. This is actually a good goal if Blizzard manages to achieve that. Side note: I'd rather see all three primary stats on jewelry instead of increasing jewelry's stat budget per item level, but oh well...

But regardless of those gear changes, to actually fix any scaling issues, the class/spec itself has to be changed anyway, not the gear. People don't complain that nobody is getting any stronger with gear, but people complain that they do not gain power as quickly as other classes/specs and thus fall behind eventually.

I test Serenity and SEF and with bracers saw that SEFes better... Is true that I have 35% Mastery, and other Monk more TOPS +40% Mastery cause this effect?

My char: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...aoslina/simple

[Babylonius]

Currently on PTR even with the bugs to SEF, is it better than Serenity with the Nerf/redesign?

Too early to say.

[Deleted]

I test Serenity and SEF and with bracers saw that SEFes better... Is true that I have 35% Mastery, and other Monk more TOPS +40% Mastery cause this effect?

My char: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...aoslina/simple

First suggestion: Get some FotW relics in that weapon. An 840 FotW one beats an 870 DA one, for example. The armoury itself won't seem to show your relics, but the ones showing up on AMR are not FotW ones.
Second suggestion: No agility gem, according to Armoury - your one gem is mastery? Replace that with agi.
Overall, your vers is low, I'd recommend getting simcraft and simming for stat weights. You'll probably find vers as your strongest stat.

[Crusch]

This, in theory, helps WW climb back up in the rankings since we already focused on Agility, and these changes make Agility even stronger in relation to the other stats. It drops WW DPS, but it drops other spec's even more. Some specs lost 15-25% damage from this change alone, by my theorycrafting, it drops WW about 8-9%.

Yes but according to a blue post this is not going to be the case ''Right now, on the PTR, player power is definitely down a few percent compared to live. The next build will have changes that increase the total amount of stats given by all items above level 800 to account for this gap, such that the overall power of your equipped items should be about the same (if not slightly higher) than it is currently in 7.1.''

Especially the last part of the last sentence is scary, that will make us even worse of.

[Babylonius]

Yes but according to a blue post this is not going to be the case ''Right now, on the PTR, player power is definitely down a few percent compared to live. The next build will have changes that increase the total amount of stats given by all items above level 800 to account for this gap, such that the overall power of your equipped items should be about the same (if not slightly higher) than it is currently in 7.1.''

Especially the last part of the last sentence is scary, that will make us even worse of.

It certainly may make us worse, but I don't speculate, just provide the information to the community based on the information that I am given.

[Shakugan123]

It certainly may make us worse, but I don't speculate, just provide the information to the community based on the information that I am given.

Hes saying that blizzard is compensating for the change to secondaries by putting more secondary stats on the items we already have, which according to blizzard might actually result in a net gain in secondary strength. Which as you've already stated we scale more on primary stats, meaning the secondary scaling change would actually hurt us in comparison to the other classes (due to the fact they may have "slightly higher" secondaries than they have now). Even if the change has no impact and secondaries stay around the same percentages then we never gained any advantage with that change.

In either case we don't benefit one way or the other with the change. Meaning the argument that we got affected less by the secondary stat change actually plays against us in the case that blizzard gives slightly more secondary stats on higher ilvl gear.

But all of that is completely reliant on how blizzard increases the secondary stat gain, according to them it should be about the same (if not slightly more) which if true means we were indirectly nerfed by this change (due to other classes gaining more secondaries).

[Babylonius]

Pandanaconda has posted a very thorough thread on the EU forums, that Talby's copied over to the NA forums outlining the issues with Storm, Earth, and Fire, the Serenity change, and the lack of communication between Blizzard and the WW community. I suggest people read it and lend their support so we can try to get some response and maybe some change.

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20752377961
http://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17614455267