beast master night hold 4 set bonus is bad

[cmlights]

4 set bonus for bm is stupid.

at the moment, we want to use dire beasts asap. and perhaps delay it to lower the cd of bestial wrath. however the 4 set bonus wants to encourage us to use direbeasts right before we cast bestial wrath to get full 60% buff for the 8 seconds is up. < this alone is hard already unlikely. furthermore this sacrifices the 15 second cd reduction direbeast does to bestial wrath.

why the heck does 4 set bonus only buff currently summoned dire beasts by 60%? it should just buff any dire bets that happens to exist during the bestial wrath buff

the 2 set is designed to work with the bm hunter design using dire beasts after bestial wrath to lower bestial wrath cooldown. but out of nowhere the 4 set bonus goes against the bm hunter design, and tell you to use dire beasts BEFORE bestial wrath.

heck maybe its not even worth getting the 4 set bonus, you know a design is bad if ppl may consider skipping the 4 set bonus to get gear with better stats. i mean u designed mm hunters 2 set and 4 set bonus to always be good. it not like u made the mm 4 set say "trueshot reduces the cost of all your focus spends by 50%....unless you hit a vulnerable target, otherwise cost is still 100%. this is an idea of what u did to the bm 4 set, you made it go against the spec's logic.

i feel class designers are trolling bm hunters on purpose, why else did they put the needed FIX (not buff) to bm hunters (2 dire beasts charges) on a LEGENDARY, which the most ppl will never get. are they purposely trying to make bm a joke spec? also why is my hati pet still rp walking around?

[Segus1992]

Can't you just use Dire Beast when BW has 15 sec CD left, then? Doesn't seem like rocket science to me.

[cmlights]

it's very rare that opportunity can come up. with all the rng involved with dire beasts

it may sound like i'm asking for too much to have any dire beasts to get the buff as long as bestial wrath is up (regardless if they were summoned before or after. but with how low bm hunter's single target dmg is at the moment, they need all the help they can get to compete with all the other specs in the game. bm in 7.1 is on average bottom 2 single target dps spec. u can check warcraft logs on ursoc and guarm

[Arcanimus]

bm in 7.1 is on average bottom 2 single target dps spec. u can check warcraft logs on ursoc and guarm

Representation doesn't reflect performance. Less people are playing BM than MM, meaning less parses.

[Brightamethyst]

Can't you just use Dire Beast when BW has 15 sec CD left, then? Doesn't seem like rocket science to me.

It's not that simple. The CDs don't line up evenly, and even if they did, the RNG of Wild Call throws it off even farther. Dire Beast is rarely up when BW CD has exactly 15 seconds left.

[Segus1992]

It's not that simple. The CDs don't line up evenly, and even if they did, the RNG of Wild Call throws it off even farther. Dire Beast is rarely up when BW CD has exactly 15 seconds left.

Why does it need to be exact? If you use it when BW has <15 sec CD remaining, you'll get some use of the CD reduction while also getting full benefit of the bonus.

[inthemist]

Why does it need to be exact? If you use it when BW has <15 sec CD remaining, you'll get some use of the CD reduction while also getting full benefit of the bonus.

Yeah, but then what about the pull? You will have to use Dire Beast first and lose 15 secs of CD reduction or use Bestial Wrath first and lose the 4pc. I agree sometimes you have to play in a way that's not intuitive to maximize dps but in this case is the set bonus causing it almost on purpose. As the OP stated I too think that it goes against BM design.

[Segus1992]

Yeah, but then what about the pull? You will have to use Dire Beast first and lose 15 secs of CD reduction or use Bestial Wrath first and lose the 4pc. I agree sometimes you have to play in a way that's not intuitive to maximize dps but in this case is the set bonus causing it almost on purpose. As the OP stated I too think that it goes against BM design.

For opener I agree the design isn't great, but far from all mechanics perfectly sync up at all times. It doesn't make it bad (like the title suggests).

[Bepples]

It's a symptom of a larger problem. Several aspects of BM were clearly designed for some earlier iteration that never saw the light of day which involved a larger number of dire beasts active for longer. Titan's Thunder has the same issue: it doesn't affect newly summoned Dire Beasts, so you have an 8-second duration buff that can never possibly be up for the full 8 seconds on any dire beast (you can get close to it with 1, but not completely because the DB has to happen at least some time BEFORE the Titan's Thunder). We have talents like Way of the Cobra which rely on multiple pets up at once. Surge of the Stormgod also depends on the amount of dire beasts up.

And this "larger problem" is itself is part of the root cause that is BM received little to no attention over the entire testing phase. Blizzard is convinced that any perceived problem with the spec is entirely the player's problem and not the developer's (see: downtime).

- - - Updated - - -

Why does it need to be exact? If you use it when BW has <15 sec CD remaining, you'll get some use of the CD reduction while also getting full benefit of the bonus.

This is just desperate.

The fact is that you have mechanics that encourage you to use bestial wrath THEN dire beast, then along comes a 4 set that encourages you to do it the other way around. That's bad design, no matter how you spin it. It's counter-intuitive and contradictory.

[Segus1992]

This is just desperate.

The fact is that you have mechanics that encourage you to use bestial wrath THEN dire beast, then along comes a 4 set that encourages you to do it the other way around. That's bad design, no matter how you spin it. It's counter-intuitive and contradictory.

Desperate? It's a fucking discussion where I suggest that maybe the sky isn't falling. Yes it's not mindlessly simple, but just because they boost eachother in sometimes counterintuitive ways doesn't make it awful.

[Bepples]

just because they boost eachother in sometimes counterintuitive ways doesn't make it awful.

Uh, yes it does, actually.

And it's not "sometimes counterintuitive". It's "sometimes intuitive". The 4 set is highly situational at best.

[xZerocidex]

Desperate? It's a fucking discussion where I suggest that maybe the sky isn't falling. Yes it's not mindlessly simple, but just because they boost eachother in sometimes counterintuitive ways doesn't make it awful.

Because Blizzard tend to make questionable design choices(More and more as of late.), whether the sky is falling or not doesn't excuse a playstyle that is contradicted by it's 4pc.

[zaphre]

They should just replace the 4p bonus with the bonus of that neu legendary.... 4p bonus with 2 charges of dire beast would be better than that shitty RNGendary. And the 4p as it is now, its useless, i would never trade uptime on BW for that bonus on DBs

[Deleted]

The interaction between direbeast.. BW.. titans thunder is just incredibly annoying atm

We constantly lose procs as it is.. you often lose more due to waiting a few seconds on stomp for titans thunder to come of cd.... because for some reason it doesn't effect pets casted after it

This 4 set piece is also incredibly stupid and makes stuff even more clunky..

Seriously how hard is it for them to make stomp/dire frenzy have 2 stacks?? we know they can due to the legendary.. it pretty much solves everything in one go.. less clunky.. more damage.. more focus gained..

A bit of improvement with hati ai and GG

[BendakWoW]

It's pretty terrible when you think about it, and then look at how much of our damage comes from Dire Beast melee hits. 5-6% on an average fight last I checked. Even if the bonus was a flat 60% buff to DB melee hits all the time it would be mediocre (though it would be nice if it worked with Stomp, which it cannot in its current iteration).

This set bonus is a leftover from the old version of Titanstrike (which AFAIK was only datamined, not tested). Back then, there were traits that summoned tons of Dire Beasts and also extended their duration. That's why it inexplicably lasts for 10 seconds when Dire Beast only lasts for 8 seconds (remember, it only applies to currently summoned dire beasts, not future ones in that 10s window). Blizzard has yet to update it to reflect the Titanstrike we've known for the last 11 months or so. They buffed it from 20% to 60% but that looked like a random "holy crap this is bad, do something!" move to me.

It really needs to change.

They should do something like double the duration of dire beasts or make it summon two beasts per cast. Then you get some interaction with Titan's Thunder. Another option is letting dire beasts Kill Command and Cleave like Hati (not necessarily at the same strength as hati). I dunno, just anything but this turd.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

eh still seems better then unholy dk that just makes death coil have a chance to apply a wound.

[BendakWoW]

eh still seems better then unholy dk that just makes death coil have a chance to apply a wound.

I don't know anything about DKs, but this one in its current form would probably add about 0.5-1.0% extra damage on a boss fight. That's just plain bad for a 4 piece tier bonus.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I don't know anything about DKs, but this one in its current form would probably add about 0.5-1.0% extra damage on a boss fight. That's just plain bad for a 4 piece tier bonus.

i think without legendary bracers the dk one would probably add next to nothing as you really don't burst that many wounds without them, you burst them 1 or 2 at a time and your generator can give you up to 4 on 1 hit so adding another 1 is kinda meaning less if you have the bracers maybe as you burst alot more so you want alot more but other wise not really.

[Deleted]

even if you line everything up perfectly. the 4 set is less then a 1% buff to your overall damage. You actually loose dmg cause the set is so horribly itemized

[Senel]

After testing on the PTR a bit it seems like the best ST talents will be Way of the Cobra and One with The Pack, maybe going for mastery and crit. Sometimes you can have 3-4 WB up at once (rng sadly) and that boosts Cobra shot, titan's thunder and works well with 4pc.