New Class Idea : Occultist - The Cult of the Damned -

[Bathory]

This is one of the better class write ups I've seen around here. Props for adding in all the connective lore/lorefigures. Well done imo. Would play.

[Gamevizier]

No thanks, if they do this they might aswell delete warlocks from the game.

Further refine the fantasy of Affliction, it already is essentially a necromancer, the only thing it doesn't do is to actually summon the dead.

Warlocks do not reanimate the dead, in fact they do not have anything to do with undeath and reanimation. just like how they could not metamorphosis into a demon and only borrowed that ability theme from Demon Hunters. Affliction warlocks still use fel as a source to corrupt their enemies and that's it. fel magic is known to drain the life out of living creatures that it affects, and this is the area where affliction warlock focuses on.

necromancer focuses on killing enemies using their minion and reanimating their corpses, effectively adding to their minion pool. the plague is their filler ability as a nod to the undeath plague that the scourge utilizes. previously the third specialization was going to be "plaguebringer" but spectromancy seemed like a better option.

[Traveler Voltin]

Meh. Feels like your trying to hard to bring nercomancer in.

[Gamevizier]

Meh. Feels like your trying to hard to bring nercomancer in.

necromancer by itself doesn't have much room to develop imo, since it can only fill two specializations tops. an acolyte of the cult of the damned on the other hand has much more room to develop since throughout the game we've seen different cultists practicing a wide range of dark schools of magic. with the new chronicle explaining that shadow priests do not infact have ties to the shadowlands but to the void (which is a different realm) a caster class with ties to the shadowlands and the undeath has enough room for development.

[Deleted]

Warlocks do not reanimate the dead, in fact they do not have anything to do with undeath and reanimation. just like how they could not metamorphosis into a demon and only borrowed that ability theme from Demon Hunters. Affliction warlocks still use fel as a source to corrupt their enemies and that's it. fel magic is known to drain the life out of living creatures that it affects, and this is the area where affliction warlock focuses on.

necromancer focuses on killing enemies using their minion and reanimating their corpses, effectively adding to their minion pool. the plague is their filler ability as a nod to the undeath plague that the scourge utilizes. previously the third specialization was going to be "plaguebringer" but spectromancy seemed like a better option.

Warlocks being able to transform into demons is established in the lore.

Affliction warlocks use souls, enslave them and use shadow magic. They do everything a necromancer does except raise the dead.

For god's sake, the Affliction weapon is literally a necromancer's weapon. That too is established in the lore.

The first necrolyte to walk the world of Azeroth, Sataiel, was given this scythe by the titan Sargeras himself. It grows in power as it draws souls from its victims. The Harvester earned its name as Sataiel methodically drained all life from the hapless inhabitants of Deadwind Pass, creating a potent magical nexus there in the process. Hunting down Sataiel, the Guardian of Tirisfal turned the scythe on her, sending her soul to join those of her victims. Eventually the Dark Riders recovered the weapon and secreted it beneath the tower of Karazhan.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Ulthalesh,_...wind_Harvester

Necrolytes are a form of necromancers that are also able to use the dark energies of the Void, as it was discovered by Natalie Seline. As such, they sometimes overlap with warlocks and shadow priests in their depiction.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Necrolyte


The entire theme of Affliction centers around curses, dots, enslaving and consuming souls. All done with the help of a weapon specifically created for a Necrolyte, which the warlock has mastered. I'd say that makes the Affliction Warlock's class fantasy very much like that of a necromancer in all but name.

Adding a necromaner to the game would destroy another Warlock spec's fantasy and at the same time water down Deathknights and even Shadowpriests.

No thanks.

[Gamevizier]

Warlocks being able to transform into demons is established in the lore.

Affliction warlocks use souls, enslave them and use shadow magic. They do everything a necromancer does except raise the dead.

For god's sake, the Affliction weapon is literally a necromancer's weapon. That too is established in the lore.

I see what you're trying to say, but your point of concern revolves more around spectromancy and not necromancy...affliction artifact it feels more like a shadowmancer/spectromancer weapon. which is just ONE spec of this class (which can be changed btw) necromancer does not deal with soul harvesting, it only deals with raising the dead...as in the rotting flesh.

Spectromancers also don't just "consume" souls to fuel their spells like Warlocks, they actually have deep knowledge of souls themselves. the main mechanic of spectromancy is to allow the cultist to take on the lich form, now the mechanics can be changed to make it feel less similar to warlocks.

Necromancer in my suggestion only deals with 1) undead minions 2) utilizing bones as weapons 3) the plague.

[FelPlague]

no thanks we dont need a third class based around death destruction and soul/blood magic
and we dont need a 4th spec based around pets


we most likley wont get a new class, as for weve had
Bc new races
wrath new class
cata new races
mop new race/class
wod new visual effects for all races
legion new classes
so were most likley to get new race as we havent had 2 expansions in a row with new classes

if we are though, the most needed that may fit right now is tinkerer
wears mail, meaning more mail users (VERY NEEDED)
with a ranged spec focused on machines and mechanics (we need a gun/bow/crossbow user)
a tanking in mech spec
and maybe a healing spec based around all sorts of machines, or it could be another 2 spec class
they would be gnomes, goblins, orc, and dwarves (are the most likley ones)

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Necromancer in my suggestion only deals with 1) undead minions 2) utilizing bones as weapons 3) the plague.

so a death knight

[Gamevizier]

so a death knight

death knight is not a caster class, its a melee class. that's like saying the existence of paladins removes the point of having priests. they both use the same source of power (with the exception of shadow priests) but they fill different roles.

and as a tinker fan I ask of you nicely, do not turn this thread into another Tinker thread.

[Deleted]

what we really need is a tinker

I'd also like to say that I didn't mean to sound rude, you've obviously put some effort into creating this and I like your ideas

it's just that I think in this game this kind of fantasy is already (greatly) overused for the reasons I mentioned

[Lady Dragonheart]

It seems pretty legit, if you ask me.

[Xenoburger]

I never post here because the community is awful but I lurk quite a bit, and just wanted to say that this is one of the few class ideas I actually agree with and you did a truly extraordinary job creating it and differentiating it from existing classes.

Ever since Demon Hunters were announced I've thought there are only two full classes left to be added: Tinker and your "Occultist"

We have a holy melee and caster, fel/demonic melee and caster, undeath/lich melee...but no caster. That's where your class idea comes in, and it fits excellently IMO.

You've handled the typical rude, snarky, Internet edgelord posts in a very non-confrontational and civilized manner, so props for that as well.

[FelPlague]

death knight is not a caster class, its a melee class. that's like saying the existence of paladins removes the point of having priests. they both use the same source of power (with the exception of shadow priests) but they fill different roles.

and as a tinker fan I ask of you nicely, do not turn this thread into another Tinker thread.

im not a tinker fan
i just think its the most likley
i am a "no more classes" fan
but necromancers are such a minor point in the lore, their options would allready be spread too far
their like demon hunters
"we dident want to make a third spec as we dident want to spread the class too thin"
because demon hunters are so minor in what they have lore wise, they couldent make a third spec without it being weird and akward lore and class fantasy wise
same with the necromancer
the raising undead aspect is allready on the death knights
the manipulation of blood on blood
bones on blood and unholy
cold on frost, spirits and curses on affliction


and yes paladins and preists, but guess what? those were added in vanilla... they are not going to remove a class...

[Gamevizier]

what we really need is a tinker

I'd also like to say that I didn't mean to sound rude, you've obviously put some effort into creating this and I like your ideas

it's just that I think in this game this kind of fantasy is already (greatly) overused for the reasons I mentioned

well, judging from how Demon Hunters were introduced and how overused people thought the class would be...not mentioning that it became the 4th class to use leather, I'd say blizzard is really unpredictable with their choice of classes. well the class will have a direct link to the expansion thats for sure. so instead of turning the suggestion into a contest of "which class suggestion is better" I prefer on working and addressing the concerns of people who read the suggestion (this is at best just a suggestion so no point arguing which suggested class or potential class is better). like how some abilities and mechanics proposed overlap with other classes/specs already in the game.

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im not a tinker fan
i just think its the most likley
i am a "no more classes" fan
but necromancers are such a minor point in the lore, their options would allready be spread too far
their like demon hunters
"we dident want to make a third spec as we dident want to spread the class too thin"
because demon hunters are so minor in what they have lore wise, they couldent make a third spec without it being weird and akward lore and class fantasy wise
same with the necromancer
the raising undead aspect is allready on the death knights
the manipulation of blood on blood
bones on blood and unholy
cold on frost, spirits and curses on affliction


and yes paladins and preists, but guess what? those were added in vanilla... they are not going to remove a class...

which is WHY the class is not called a necromancer. they are Cultists, the Acolytes, the idea is not to just introduce the necromancer but the major order that served the lich king, it consisted of different schools of magic. so instead of necromancers think of them as the Acolyte unit from Warcraft 3, now this acolyte can branch out to either become a vampiric healer (a blood mage) a spectromancer/lich and a necromancer (necromancer is just one of the specializations.)

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I never post here because the community is awful but I lurk quite a bit, and just wanted to say that this is one of the few class ideas I actually agree with and you did a truly extraordinary job creating it and differentiating it from existing classes.

Ever since Demon Hunters were announced I've thought there are only two full classes left to be added: Tinker and your "Occultist"

We have a holy melee and caster, fel/demonic melee and caster, undeath/lich melee...but no caster. That's where your class idea comes in, and it fits excellently IMO.

You've handled the typical rude, snarky, Internet edgelord posts in a very non-confrontational and civilized manner, so props for that as well.

I'm glad that you liked it to the point that you made a post in appreciation of the thread .

[Dastreus]

You put in a great deal of effort, but it has a severe lore problem. After Arthas was killed, the Cult of the Damned was not disbanded, but instead leadership of the Cult went to Kel'Thuzad, who is still alive - we never destroyed that Phylactery of his, nor kept it.

[Gamevizier]

what we really need is a tinker

I'd also like to say that I didn't mean to sound rude, you've obviously put some effort into creating this and I like your ideas

it's just that I think in this game this kind of fantasy is already (greatly) overused for the reasons I mentioned

I understand your concerns regarding the overlapping class fantasy, especially in regards of affliction warlocks and the spectromancer spec due to the "theme" of their specs (and the mechanics sound kinda similar between destruction and spectromancy) that is why I'm open to suggestions regarding changing some of the mechanics.

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You put in a great deal of effort, but it has a severe lore problem. After Arthas was killed, the Cult of the Damned was not disbanded, but instead leadership of the Cult went to Kel'Thuzad, who is still alive - we never destroyed that Phylactery of his, nor kept it.

I am aware of that, perhaps I should've rephrased it to imply that the majority of the cult was destroyed and what was left of them went to hiding.

EDIT: Finished editing it. btw, Kel'thuzad was for most of the time the leader of the cult. it was briefly given to other individuals, i think lady deathwhisper had the leadership during the ICC event.

[Dastreus]

I understand your concerns regarding the overlapping class fantasy, especially in regards of affliction warlocks and the spectromancer spec due to the "theme" of their specs (and the mechanics sound kinda similar between destruction and spectromancy) that is why I'm open to suggestions regarding changing some of the mechanics.

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I am aware of that, perhaps I should've rephrased it to imply that the majority of the cult was destroyed and what was left of them went to hiding.

EDIT: Finished editing it. btw, Kel'thuzad was for most of the time the leader of the cult. it was briefly given to other individuals, i think lady deathwhisper had the leadership during the ICC event.

I do like the idea of Spectromancer and have wanted a Blood Mage for awhile.

[Leviatharan]

It's... interesting, but I have a few issues with it.

First off, the specs themselves do very little to differentiate between the capabilities of the Necromancer ("Occultist") and a Death Knight. Unholy DKs are capable of summoning a wide variety of corporeal undead (including abominations and skeletons), Blood DKs naturally have the vampiric theme, and the ability to summon incorporeal undead or transform into an undead has been bounced around the class several times since Wrath. In terms of lore, it recycles the "former champions of the Lich King" plotline...
Yes, I'm sure it can be argued that Occultists could be as to Death Knights as Priests are to Paladins or Warlocks are to Demon Hunters... but each of the classes goes out of their way to thematically explain why they're different. Paladins wield the Light exclusively as both Sword and Shield, while Priests attempt to balance spirituality in all of its forms, including the Void. Warlocks lost abilities to the Demon Hunters because the devs didn't expect Demon Hunters to ever coexist; the vast differences between them are highlighted by Tehd and Marius, where Tehd works to control demons as Marius works to destroy them.
Death Knights, however, have been described as some of the most powerful necromancers among the Old Horde and the Scourge since the Warcraft games.

Second, the playstyles tend to recycle a lot of existing class mechanics without adding much originality beyond resources. Necromancy uses raising the dead with manipulation of diseases as filler? Unholy DK. Blood Magic uses personal health as a resource, and damage enemies in order to restore allies? Discipline Priests and Affliction Warlocks.

Third, the lore. Holy cow, the lore is so far off. Every race would kill a Scourge emissary as quickly as Tyrande; the only exception might be Sylvanas choosing to capture one alive, but never allowing one to walk into her throne room without bindings, chains and a gag. The Blood Elves would never "welcome the Scourge emissary with curiosity" - their homeland and people were forever ruined by the Scourge, and they understand full-well the Scourge's capabilities. The Draenei wouldn't "volunteer upon hearing the Lich King's call"; if you hear the Lich King's call, you're being manipulated, there's no "volunteering" about it.
I feel like the lore of this misses some opportunities, instead simply stating that all of the races are tied to the Cult of the Damned. Just look at Azeroth's classes: the Tauren do not knowingly follow the Light, and created the Sunwalkers independently. The Blood Elves originally channeled the Light not through worship, but through draining the Naaru. Gilneas employed "Harvest Witches" who practiced crude druidic magic.
In this case: The Draenei naturally have some powers leaning toward the Spectromancy tree through the practices of the Speakers for the Dead and Soulbinders of Auchindoun. The High Elves have been wielding Blood Magic independently for years, even before they became Blood Elves. The Forsaken would willingly accept the Necromantic teachings of Helcular and the Val'kyr in order to continue the existence of their people. Trolls have Spiritbinders amongst the ranks of their priests, and Blood Mages amongst some of their tribes. Kasim Sharim is a gnomish Blood Mage. The Defias employ Human Blood Mages while some Orc clans employed similar classes for spiritual purposes - and sure, maybe some Humans would be passing around the teachings of Kel'thuzad years later, much as Orcs continue to pass around the teachings of Gul'dan and Ner'zhul to their Warlocks.

Which brings me to my fourth point: There's no way an Occultist is a hero class, much less one that starts higher than Death Knights do. Death Knights are supposed to be naturally gifted with necromancy by virtue of it being infused into their life force.
Because of all the ways that some races already employ them, it makes sense that they would be allowed to wander under supervision if Warlocks and Death Knights can.

Fifth, it crams specialties like Fleshcrafting and Blightcalling into Necromancy... but then leaves Spectromancy separate. What's up with that?

Sixth, the artifacts. A problem with most of the artifacts in Legion is that they have no lore basis - but the ones that do tend to have the most attachment from players, such as Ashbringer and Doomhammer. If I were to create an artifact for an Occultist, I'd pick weapons tied to established characters, such as Kel'thuzad, the Bleeding Hollow or Shadowmoon clans, Mogu flesh-shapers, or Bwonsamdi.

[FelPlague]

also you seem to forget the death knights that we play were forced to work under the lich king and left his side the first chance they got
where the cult of the dammed on their own accord joined, yes some turned into mindless slaves ,but they all still joined

[Gamevizier]

It's... interesting, but I have a few issues with it.

First off, the specs themselves do very little to differentiate between the capabilities of the Necromancer ("Occultist") and a Death Knight. Unholy DKs are capable of summoning a wide variety of corporeal undead (including abominations and skeletons), Blood DKs naturally have the vampiric theme, and the ability to summon incorporeal undead or transform into an undead has been bounced around the class several times since Wrath. In terms of lore, it recycles the "former champions of the Lich King" plotline...
Yes, I'm sure it can be argued that Occultists could be as to Death Knights as Priests are to Paladins or Warlocks are to Demon Hunters... but each of the classes goes out of their way to thematically explain why they're different. Paladins wield the Light exclusively as both Sword and Shield, while Priests attempt to balance spirituality in all of its forms, including the Void. Warlocks lost abilities to the Demon Hunters because the devs didn't expect Demon Hunters to ever coexist; the vast differences between them are highlighted by Tehd and Marius, where Tehd works to control demons as Marius works to destroy them.
Death Knights, however, have been described as some of the most powerful necromancers among the Old Horde and the Scourge since the Warcraft games.

Second, the playstyles tend to recycle a lot of existing class mechanics without adding much originality beyond resources. Necromancy uses raising the dead with manipulation of diseases as filler? Unholy DK. Blood Magic uses personal health as a resource, and damage enemies in order to restore allies? Discipline Priests and Affliction Warlocks.

Third, the lore. Holy cow, the lore is so far off. Every race would kill a Scourge emissary as quickly as Tyrande; the only exception might be Sylvanas choosing to capture one alive, but never allowing one to walk into her throne room without bindings, chains and a gag. The Blood Elves would never "welcome the Scourge emissary with curiosity" - their homeland and people were forever ruined by the Scourge, and they understand full-well the Scourge's capabilities. The Draenei wouldn't "volunteer upon hearing the Lich King's call"; if you hear the Lich King's call, you're being manipulated, there's no "volunteering" about it.
I feel like the lore of this misses some opportunities, instead simply stating that all of the races are tied to the Cult of the Damned. Just look at Azeroth's classes: the Tauren do not knowingly follow the Light, and created the Sunwalkers independently. The Blood Elves originally channeled the Light not through worship, but through draining the Naaru. Gilneas employed "Harvest Witches" who practiced crude druidic magic.
In this case: The Draenei naturally have some powers leaning toward the Spectromancy tree through the practices of the Speakers for the Dead and Soulbinders of Auchindoun. The High Elves have been wielding Blood Magic independently for years, even before they became Blood Elves. The Forsaken would willingly accept the Necromantic teachings of Helcular and the Val'kyr in order to continue the existence of their people. Trolls have Spiritbinders amongst the ranks of their priests, and Blood Mages amongst some of their tribes. Kasim Sharim is a gnomish Blood Mage. The Defias employ Human Blood Mages while some Orc clans employed similar classes for spiritual purposes - and sure, maybe some Humans would be passing around the teachings of Kel'thuzad years later, much as Orcs continue to pass around the teachings of Gul'dan and Ner'zhul to their Warlocks.

Which brings me to my fourth point: There's no way an Occultist is a hero class, much less one that starts higher than Death Knights do. Death Knights are supposed to be naturally gifted with necromancy by virtue of it being infused into their life force.
Because of all the ways that some races already employ them, it makes sense that they would be allowed to wander under supervision if Warlocks and Death Knights can.

Fifth, it crams specialties like Fleshcrafting and Blightcalling into Necromancy... but then leaves Spectromancy separate. What's up with that?

Sixth, the artifacts. A problem with most of the artifacts in Legion is that they have no lore basis - but the ones that do tend to have the most attachment from players, such as Ashbringer and Doomhammer. If I were to create an artifact for an Occultist, I'd pick weapons tied to established characters, such as Kel'thuzad, the Bleeding Hollow or Shadowmoon clans, Mogu flesh-shapers, or Bwonsamdi.

a very thorough and well-thought post. I'll need to work on the points you mentioned tommorow when I have more brain energy. just one thing, in Warcraft universe there seem to be two Blood Mages, one implies a "blood elf mage" like Kael'thas who is a cross between fire mage and warlock (i think) and then the school of magic that utilizes blood as a source of power. Kasim Sharim seems to be a practicioner of the later while prince kael'thas sunstrider is the former.

the point of the scourge emissaries is to deliver the information that Bolvar is the new Lich King, reassuring other kingdoms that the scourge is under the rule of a notable figure and that it is different from the previous scourge. in Legion, death knights make a pact with the lich king to serve him as long as he keeps the scourge restricted to Northrend, so the Death Knights are not only the champions of the Lich King, they are also the watchmen who monitor Bolvar's activities. the idea of taking recruits from other cities and using NPCs that people are familiar with (like Jitters and Kasim Sharim) is to invoke the same feeling of the old cult of the damned in which normal NPCs would be discovered to be have been working for the scourge.

The new scourge is heard because the emissaries are not there just to announce and herald Bolvar's return, they're there to negotiate with the leaders of these kingdoms and offer them assistance in exchange for recruits and most importantly, their recognition. they're there to simply make peace by offering to undo the wrongs the previous scourge did. the blood elves need assistance with ridding the land from undeath, stormwind needs help with cleansing duskwood, blood elves also need more knowledge regarding the artifacts they found during their campaign in pandaria, sylvanas needs to learn ways to prolong her life, Draenei need to re-learn the art of soulbinding and the knowledge to commune with the dead, worgen need help cleansing Gilneas, etc. most of the kingdoms have something that the new lich king can help them with.

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also you seem to forget the death knights that we play were forced to work under the lich king and left his side the first chance they got
where the cult of the dammed on their own accord joined, yes some turned into mindless slaves ,but they all still joined

for the promise of eternal life in undeath yes I get the jist of that. the cult of the damned is seeking eternal life in undeath, all the questionable and villainous things they did was to achieve that goal, which was promised to them by the lich king. a lich is basically the fullfillment of that promise, as a lich is immortal. (unless their phylactery is destroyed)

you're a new member of the cult though, and your generation is seeking different goals. true, some might join for the promise of immorality, but the general theme of the new cult is to utilize the knowledge of the scourge to battle the remnants of the scourge corruption and to cleanse areas that seem to be affected by curses and undead magic. seeing that the world after (or under the attack of) the legion is in no shape to instigate another crusade to the northrend, it would make sense if the leaders would think twice before declaring war on the scourge again.

[Shadowsongs]

I like the idea of blood magic healer but other specs feels like warlock