A Simple Argument for the Tinker Class

[Teriz]

Ok. You're definitely playing dumb and you can only be trying to troll, here. Because I honestly doubt anyone could claim to believe Hunters have 'infinite traps/arrows/bullets' in the lore, and not be joking.

I'm talking about in gameplay.

Scale. Hunter's gadgets are much smaller, much simpler, and much more low-tech, therefore easier to manufacture, than what a tech class would use.

You're making an assumption. Technology can allow missiles to be very small, yet pack a huge punch. Technology can allow a mech suit to carry an entire arsenal without the pilot having to worry about weight or fatigue. Further, Goblins have already shown that they can create miniature factories, so its not impossible for a Goblin to simply toss down a pocket factory that manufactures weaponry.

In that situation, walking around in a fully armed mech suit is better than lugging around thousands of traps, arrows, grenades and other low tech projectiles.

It is irrelevant because your first claim was that engineers do not invent, and when proven wrong, you moved the goal posts by saying 'not until level 90 and for just a few items'.

Discovery is not invention. Please get your facts straight.

Proven wrong again. Otherwise DHs would be open for all races. All classes would be open for all races. Any race could be of any faction. Yet that isn't the case.

Not necessarily. Some would argue that DHs being limited to just elves enhances the gameplay of the class because Blizzard could add more features that are more elven-specific, and wouldn't be diluted by a class that is spread over multiple races. The same can be said for limited a technology class to just Goblins and Gnomes. Some would argue that having set factions enhances gameplay. There are arguments for both sides. Expanding a class to all races or eliminating the racial restriction on a faction isn't a guarantee that it would improve gameplay.

[Kiradyn]

I thought something similar before the release of Legion. I thought we would see classes have abilities removed (eg Warlock) and then next expansion we would see DH released. As we know that didn't happen. It sets precedence. Your argument is that there is overlap but we have seen Blizz remove the overlap and release the class at the same time.

Technology is in the game already. Since the release of DH the overlap argument has become unreliable as overlap can be removed at the release of a Tech class. The questions needing to be asked is what dose Blizz gain in releasing a tech class.

I'm in the same boat. The DH pretty much proves that overlap isn't an obstacle for class introduction.

If Blizzard doesn't care about two classes overlap, they're not going to care about a profession and a class overlapping.

[Rhamses]

I have a few simple arguments for Tinkers:

1. Every faction leader represents a class or a combination of classes. Kind of odd that Gelbin would be the only one represented by a profession. In fact, it seems rather demeaning.

2. Gnomes and Goblins are tech races. There really should be a class that represents their unique culture and histories.

3.There are Tinker abilities from WC3 and HotS that can be used for the class' design. Honestly, when you combine all of the abilities together, you have a skeleton of a class already.

4.The player base wants a new physical ranged class. Tinkers could fulfill that without overlapping with Hunters, or any other existing class.

I really think they could do a lot with the concept. I hope they implement it at some point.

[Ielenia]

I'm talking about in gameplay.

So you're trying to play cute, answering a question about lore... with gameplay?

You're making an assumption. Technology can allow missiles to be very small, yet pack a huge punch. Technology can allow a mech suit to carry an entire arsenal without the pilot having to worry about weight or fatigue. Further, Goblins have already shown that they can create miniature factories, so its not impossible for a Goblin to simply toss down a pocket factory that manufactures weaponry.

Except.. that is not what technology in Azeroth is represented, right? In Azeroth, the motto seems to be "the bigger, the better", doesn't it?

Discovery is not invention. Please get your facts straight.

Why? It fits your criteria: learning how to create something without using schematics or going to a trainer.

Not necessarily. Some would argue that DHs being limited to just elves enhances the gameplay of the class because Blizzard could add more features that are more elven-specific, and wouldn't be diluted by a class that is spread over multiple races.

You're reaching. Class restrictions exist because of lore. Race restriction to factions exist because of lore.

[Teriz]

So you're trying to play cute, answering a question about lore... with gameplay?

I was pointing out that Blizzard will gladly override lore issues to provide a smooth gaming experience. For example at one point Hunters had to purchase their ammunition. It became a cumbersome process so Blizzard removed that aspect completely to smooth out the gameplay. Some would argue that some of the immersion was lost, but gameplay won out in that regard.

Except.. that is not what technology in Azeroth is represented, right? In Azeroth, the motto seems to be "the bigger, the better", doesn't it?

Goblins have had the capability to produce miniaturized buildings that they can transport around at least since WC3.

Why? It fits your criteria: learning how to create something without using schematics or going to a trainer.

Because the object already exists elsewhere, so it's not an invention.

You're reaching. Class restrictions exist because of lore. Race restriction to factions exist because of lore.

They also exist because of gameplay.

[Ielenia]

Goblins have had the capability to produce miniaturized buildings that they can transport around at least since WC3.

That, once removed from the 'boxes', cannot be put back in. But, in the end, that doesn't matter. The "unofficial motto" for technology, in WoW, has always been "the bigger, the better". Bigger ships, bigger cannons, bigger tanks, bigger mechs, bigger bombs...

Because the object already exists elsewhere, so it's not an invention.

How do you know? You can't find any of those things in trainers or schematics, and what other players do is inconsequential regarding your character lore. If your player 'discovers' that, that's it: he is inventing something new. If other players discovered it before him, it's irrelevant.

They also exist because of gameplay.

There is no gameplay reason to keep race/class and race/faction combo restrictions. At all. No reason other than lore reasons.

[Teriz]

That, once removed from the 'boxes', cannot be put back in.

True, but that really wasn't the point. The point is that a goblin could simply create a miniature factory that produces their munitions. Once the Goblin Tinker gets what they need, they'll simply let the building expire.

How do you know? You can't find any of those things in trainers or schematics, and what other players do is inconsequential regarding your character lore. If your player 'discovers' that, that's it: he is inventing something new. If other players discovered it before him, it's irrelevant.

A few of the items you discover show up in vendors. Other items are Engineering items from Cataclysm or WotLK. Other items can also be found as drops from certain tech-based mobs. Still other discovery items are things you simply find lying around.

It's not like you're creating something that didn't exist in the world before like the Iron Juggernaut or the Iron Star.

There is no gameplay reason to keep race/class and race/faction combo restrictions. At all. No reason other than lore reasons.

Again, I disagree. For example, a Goblin/Gnome race restriction on a technology class makes mech piloting as a class feature more possible.

[Ielenia]

True, but that really wasn't the point. The point is that a goblin could simply create a miniature factory that produces their munitions. Once the Goblin Tinker gets what they need, they'll simply let the building expire.

I imagine that building an entire factory takes a lot of resources, and isn't something one could "have a decent reserve of".

A few of the items you discover show up in vendors. Other items are Engineering items from Cataclysm or WotLK. Other items can also be found as drops from certain tech-based mobs. Still other discovery items are things you simply find lying around.

Not the tinker augments. Those don't exist anywhere else. And I'm pretty sure there's more, but it's late.

It's not like you're creating something that didn't exist in the world before like the Iron Juggernaut or the Iron Star.

What's so special about the Iron Star, anyways? It's just a glorified bomb that rolls around. Nothing really 'new' about it.

Again, I disagree. For example, a Goblin/Gnome race restriction on a technology class makes mech piloting as a class feature more possible.

Assuming, of course, that a tech class would even pilot a mech, to begin with. Something we have no guarantee would even happen.

[Teriz]

Written lore is usually far more fluid as it has more freedom, but imo a Class in a game is always limited to game-mechanics and balance and viability.

I thought this thread is about a theoritical future class in a game since it's not in a Lore section so game rules will always apply.

As far as the argument of invention, maybe they can follow the new hearthstone Kazakus card (create your own spell) system a bit where you choose a cost and multiple effects out of 3 choices each.

Spells can be fairly unique that way but the many hundreds of possibility would make it hard to balance in terms of avoiding cookie cutter builds all using the few "best" ones for situations.

Even so hearthstone went very far on the whole "mech" aspect of the WoW universe (canon or not) and even had an expansion called goblin vs gnomes in the past, and in that context I see it far more fun to see Blizzard experiment there then pigeonhole a few races into a limited wow class as it will never be as diverse.

And even there it has "limitations" like Flame Leviathan for example is a mech, but mage card, they had to "balance" for that as well as we all know in WoW it has nothing to do with purely mages in Ulduar and far more related to Titan keeper/Iron Dwarf defensive systems instead.

Same reason the new upcoming brawler guild is considered non-canon they can more freely design for it.

I think the idea of a system like Kazakus in Hearthstone would be very cool Teri. The ability to create your own spells, or in the case of a Tinker, maybe mix certain chemicals together to cause various effects? Perhaps combining different devices and creating a new device? It certainly would be a novel concept, and something not seen in existing classes (I think...)

[Jtree]

Cool stuff man. Like the spec name too.

Thanks! That's the chassis name though, not a spec name. This idea I'm kicking around is that there would be several designs per spec that are earned in a manner similar to artifact weapons. I believe that Blizz said we'll get to keep out artifact appearances for transmog in the future, so a new class could get a similar system for variety.

If I have time this weekend, I might put together a concept for a Dwarf tank mech, based on the power loader from Aliens. : )

[Vynny]

They pulled pandaland out of their asses, inluding the whole monk theme.

The only monks present in the game up until pandaland were Scarlet monks - something completely different.

If they could pull that off, why not literally anything else?

You do realize that Chen Stormstout was one of the founders of Orgrimmar, correct? I mean, panda monks were a thing in WoW lore back in Warcraft 3 before which preceded WoW . . . so it wasn't straight out of there ass

[Traveler Voltin]

People hate logic

[Krobane]

make a millennial class and all the do is cast safe space

[Fang7986]

Whatever the next new class is, it needs to be ranged. There are way too many melee classes now!

Add a Tinkler class. Would have to stand at mid-range to avoid splashback so it wouldn't be a melee class and everyone would confuse it for a tinker class like how it seems everyone messes up Rogue/rouge.

[Rhamses]

I think the idea of a system like Kazakus in Hearthstone would be very cool Teri. The ability to create your own spells, or in the case of a Tinker, maybe mix certain chemicals together to cause various effects? Perhaps combining different devices and creating a new device? It certainly would be a novel concept, and something not seen in existing classes (I think...)

While that sounds cool and all, I don't think that would be implemented. It would be a balancing nightmare.

I think the devs would be better off if they just use the "Salvager" ability from HotS and applied it to a WoW Tinker class. Like you collect scraps from your expired machines/devices, and you can store them almost like a secondary resource. When you need it, you can use a scrap to decrease a cooldown by a certain amount and restore your primary resource. There could also be scrap-related abilities like a faster "Repair" ability if you had a device or robot that needed to be kept alive a bit longer.

I don't know, just something I've been thinking about.

[Fang7986]

make a millennial class and all the do is cast safe space

and "OUTRAGE" you forgot they are pretty good at casting that too. No wait instead of mana, energy or fury, they would have an "Outrage" bar the more it fills the more damage they do and the more targets they can hit but the lower their accuracy gets. Maybe instead of boss fights we just have boss protests. And any time a group adds a millennial, the item level among the entire group gets averaged out so everyone has equal gear. I think we need more ideas on what a millennial class would be like and what spells/attacks they would have.

[Gamevizier]

It's a gnome-centric class. The last thing this game needs is focus on a race that is more of a joke than Pandaren ever were.

If tinkers were a thing they'd be played less than monk.

a class that revolves around building turrets and manning kickass steam powered suits? you're comparing THAT with monks???? what's wrong with you.

[Traveler Voltin]

Found my tinker concept. Thought it had 4 specs but only had 3. I will fix and expand it some. Maybe even post it.

[Gamevizier]

Simple workaround.

Rename the Engineering profession to Tinkering (it practically already is if you consider the 'enchants').

Presto, now they can add a class called Engineer.

or we can call the class artificer, with tinkerer being one of the specs.

[Traveler Voltin]

Working on my tinker concept. Might show it a rough draft when i have 6 abilities for each spec figured out.