Immigration Simplified

[nanook12]

But USA can attack countries that are 10k km away and that 98% of Americans have never heard of? Destroy their economy, infrastructure, basically crating chaos in a country in the name of peace thus making millions homeless?!

Yeah, life is not fair. Sorry.

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We both do every time we eat food. Checkmate.

Umm that is mass to energy. Not energy to mass.

[Darsithis]

Well my side is winning. A very anti-immigration president has been elected. That speaks volumes about what Americans think is important, and immigration is clearly a big problems on their minds.

That's a serious logical fallacy. Just because a lot of people want something doesn't make it right, true, or good.

[Spectral]

If not the most successful country in the world, then who? Don't get me wrong, I think all successful nations should be working towards this goal, but to say the USA shouldn't help just seems unempathetic to me. It wouldn't just drop a lot of support that impoverished nations already receive, but it would set a poor example that others might very well follow.

I'm unconvinced that foreign aid is an effective means of improving other nations. The results of these policies are a mixed bag and it's trivially easy to find local economies that are crippled by well intentioned foreign intervention. The one policy that seems to actually consistently improve living standards in impoverished nations is opening up free trade with them.

[Darsithis]

Umm that is mass to energy. Not energy to mass.

Have you ever burned off fat? Muscle? Your body is constantly converting mass to energy (to survive) and back to mass (fat) when it has an abundance. Everything does.

At any rate, we're getting way off topic and I won't indulge this ridiculous line any more.

[nanook12]

The world isn't a closed system, and if you want to get into the physics of things, humanity doesn't "consume" resources to begin with. We just convert them. Like all life does.

No we consume. Again good luck converting energy back to mass to reuse again.

[Gorgodeus]

And I am not going to answer you. You took a tiny part of the argument "some people" that is completely irrelevant and are trying to build it into something bigger, but there is nothing there. The thesis of his argument is "the U.S. cannot solve world poverty and shouldn't even try because more poor are born annually that massively exceed any amount we can reasonably take in" And he alludes that the 1 million we accept now are hurting the jobs prospects and wages of the native poor we have in this country already. What more do you want? The United States needs a net negative flow of immigration at the moment plain and border security strengthened plain and simple.

And that right there is why people like you have no clue. You never do your own research and blindly take some retarded youtube video as fact.

Here's a little hint: more immigrants are leaving the US every year than there are entering the US. There are fewer immigrants now than there was 10 years ago, and it has been steadily dropping.

Problem is this fact does not support all the hyperbole people like you like to spew forth.

[Deleted]

And I am not going to answer you. You took a tiny part of the argument "some people" that is completely irrelevant and are trying to build it into something bigger, but there is nothing there. The thesis of his argument is "the U.S. cannot solve world poverty and shouldn't even try because more poor are born annually that massively exceed any amount we can reasonably take in" And he alludes that the 1 million we accept now are hurting the jobs prospects and wages of the native poor we have in this country already. What more do you want? The United States needs a net negative flow of immigration at the moment plain and border security strengthened plain and simple.

Have you found anyone in this thread arguing that immigration does actually solve world poverty?

I havn't and as far as I know, none doesn't, hence the vast majority of the video is moot since he is spending time proving something that nobody disagrees with him on.

The next part of your statement, the fact that the net impact of immigration is negative, is still a point of heavy contention, as you can see in this thread. If he were to actually prove that, we could have a discussion on the subject.

Besides that, his assumption that ''just because you can't solve the whole problem, you shouldn't try to solve anything'' is completely asinine.

Personally I volunteer in the local elderly center to reduce immobility & loneliness amongst elderly. Do I have the pretense that this completely illiminates loneliness in elderly in the netherlands? No I don't, however I do try to do my part because I know it helps the people I come into context with. Hopefully this example illustrates for you why the aforementioned argument is asinine.

[Endus]

No we consume. Again good luck converting energy back to mass to reuse again.

You should take some time to learn what "photosynthesis" is.

[NED funded]

If there is no surplus of people, labor either won't have cause to move, OR the movement will be parasitic, one are trying to force a migration.

The falling fertility that Modernity seems to bring is still an unresolved problem for these models.

Falling fertility won't really affect open borders. The freedom of movement idea came with free trade to ensure that workers that flat out lost their jobs can still be productive in the new regions. Suppose that the Carrier plant had moved to Mexico, workers would move to Mexico as well.

[nextormento]

IMHO, most immigration policies are designed so Sir. Richard Branson and company can have cheap maids and cheap restaurants to eat at and pretend their exotic and sophisticated.

Dunno about Sir Richard Branson, but my middle-class mother exploits cheap immigrant labor as much as the next guy. People from Morocco seem pretty adept at tasks like furbishing a bathroom, fixing some pipes and painting walls. I'll let her know she's singlehandedly lowering wages among construction workers .
Jokes aside, yes: we're redressing as charity what amounts to furthering our interest. Being full of shit is kind of an ancestral European tradition.

[nanook12]

Have you ever burned off fat? Muscle? Your body is constantly converting mass to energy (to survive) and back to mass (fat) when it has an abundance. Everything does.

At any rate, we're getting way off topic and I won't indulge this ridiculous line any more.

You body needs energy to pump its heart, drive muscles, maintain neuron pathways, etc. You cannot get that energy back. You do not eat a 1/2lb burger and gain 1/2lb. The large portion of that is lost to energy. Human beings consume things with no hope of reuse. The system is closed and resources are limited. Immigrants take resources from others.

[NED funded]

Well my side is winning. A very anti-immigration president has been elected. That speaks volumes about what Americans think is important, and immigration is clearly a big problems on their minds.

Trump had something more to say than fuck immigrants.

[Vatez]

This video reminded me about a topic that was covered in a class I took while back, and how visual aids can be used to sway arguments; even when they are wrong.

The Link attached talks about the video you posted, how his math does not add up, and how his demonstration does not address any meaningful immigration topics.

graphpaperdiaries.com/2016/01/21/immigration-poverty-and-gumballs/

[nanook12]

You should take some time to learn what "photosynthesis" is.

Well damn. You got me. The miracle of plants. Even then plants require water and elements from earth.

[Theodarzna]

Falling fertility won't really affect open borders. The freedom of movement idea came with free trade to ensure that workers that flat out lost their jobs can still be productive in the new regions. Suppose that the Carrier plant had moved to Mexico, workers would move to Mexico as well.

It effects them in that areas with shrinking populations are not keen to move people around.

What you describe is the dream of a strange autistic madman who forgets the social cost of uprooting and moving around or imagines workers have no kids or families and are just atomized units of widgets. Which might explain why when a country gets integrated into this system their birth rates fall dramatically.

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Dunno about Sir Richard Branson, but my middle-class mother exploits cheap immigrant labor as much as the next guy. People from Morocco seem pretty adept at tasks like furbishing a bathroom, fixing some pipes and painting walls. I'll let her know she's singlehandedly lowering wages among construction workers .
Jokes aside, yes: we're redressing as charity what amounts to furthering our interest. Being full of shit is kind of an ancestral European tradition.

That is the rub of it for me, a bunch of faux-bleeding hearts act like they are doing some massive charity, when in reality the biggest beneficiaries are themselves. And they wonder why they get Brexit'd and Trump'd.

[markos82]

Yeah, life is not fair. Sorry.

It has nothing to do with life being fair or not, accepting the fact that cause of perhaps all major wars since WW2 was USA then one has to raise a question.

[Darsithis]

The system is closed and resources are limited. Immigrants take resources from others.

The system is not closed. The sun provides unlimited (for our purposes) energy that we use to grow crops and livestock. We consume those to survive, and expel our wastes (which contain energy for many other life forms). Our bodies are a feeding ground for a large amount of life, while we're alive and when we're dead, providing energy that they convert into mass, and they die...and so on. The circle of life, aptly described in the Lion King. While it is true that there are aspects of our cultures that close parts of that off (entombing our dead, cremation), in general we contribute plenty back.

Again, and this can't be overstated: the Earth is not a closed system. We do not have a finite amount of "life energy" available to us every day that has to be rationed out. Additional people joining our society contribute as well as consume. The system swells to accommodate them. Immigration is not "stealing" resources from "actual" Americans. It is not stealing our jobs or our lives.

[Hammerfest]

The USA cannot solve the problems of global poverty by letting a ton of people in.

As if it's even up to the US to solve said problem. Personally, I think the US should suspend immigration for a couple of decades like they did in the last century.

[Darsithis]

Well damn. You got me. The miracle of plants. Even then plants require water and elements from earth.

Water is constantly absorbed as vapor and returned, as well as generated (we can even make water, it's pretty easy) from hydrogen and oxygen, two compounds again created by other biological processes that are supported by...again...other biological processes. If the Earth were a closed system that had no hope of renewal of resources it would not exist today after four billion years.

[Paranoid Android]

As if it's even up to the US to solve said problem. Personally, I think the US should suspend immigration for a couple of decades like they did in the last century.

Sure! Your ancestors got in (unless you are Native) so fuck them all. That is the basic definition of nationalism.