Healer dps (or lack of it) in M+

[PosPosPos]

1. Don't complain about a healer doing zero DPS when u finish ur dungeon without any wipes or even any deaths.
2. Don't complain if u force the healer to do DPS when people start dying or the group even wipes.

If u have downtime to throw in a few DPS spells as healer, do it, if not, dont worry about it and focus on ur main job, which is keeping people alive.

Or just replace and find a better healer.

You can tell a mediocre healer from a good one judging from whether they can skilfully weave between necessary healing and dps.

[Akka]

As a holy paladin, with a stack of Old war potions, I can pull up to 400k DPS on a boss

i always dps when we run 7-9 keys. i play a paladin so it makes sense to dps when you can contribute a steady 200-250k dps on trash and 400-500k dps on bosses.

That's the damage of the kind we find on the best parses of Mythic bosses. I guess it's time for all DPS to reroll healer to increase their damage

[Saphyron]

HPriest = HW: Chastise

Chatise don't stun it disorientates. which gets removed on any damage taken that is not a dot.

- - - Updated - - -

As an FYI, HW: Chastise is a DISORIENT not a stun, unless talented. And the long cooldown means it should not be relied upon unless absolutely necessary.


My opinion:

If I have the chance to do really shitty dps . . . . WTF ARE YOU DOING? GO PULL MORE STUFF!

I mean seriously! If I'm not healing, it means people aren't taking damage. If people aren't taking damage, it means you can pull more trash! WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING WAITING AROUND FOR ME TO DPS??? Don't expect me to dps; I'm there to heal, and if I'm not healing, it means you can go faster (or I'm OOM, so pick one). More trash = more cleave damage = faster times.


On the flip side -- if I'm back-to-back casting heals, it means that I don't have even a global cooldown for a shitty dot. If you want me to dps in said conditions, it means that someone is going to take a dirt nap.

I agree here

[demonyaa]

Good players will maximize DPS when playing *any* role.
On a pug you cannot expect random players to play well so to expect healers to dps isn't very realistic.
People claiming that "healers should only heal gtfo" are either trolling or are extremely bad players.

[Emerald Archer]

Chatise don't stun it disorientates. which gets removed on any damage taken that is not a dot.

The point is, Chastise still works as an interrupt. Anything that does anything to prevent a cast, even for half a milisecond, works as an interrupt.

[Rhoe]

It doesn't seem to be the norm to dps much for healers in m+ unless hpala/disc. Looking at warcraftlog stats, average dps on +7 for resto druids is 27k, mistweaver 21k, holy paladins 43k, disc priest 88k, resto shaman 18k.
I'll happily dps as healer with guildies/friends, but with pugs? No way, you never know when the tank decides to go crazy and pull 4 groups on bolstering, or when the hunter forgets to aim barrage etc, and if I have wasted my mana dpsing because everything seemed fine, then I'm gonna get the blame. Pugs always focus on the tank/healer first when they want to blame someone.
I ran a HoV +4 earlier today with a havoc DH who was afk for half the run due to baby issues. Did any of the pugs complain about that? Nope.
Our tank pulled the wrong bull in the wolf part. Immediately a pug asks "Do you even know where to go tank?" But hey, at least they didn't blame me when they died after failing to interrupt any of the casts from the stupidly bolstered casters after the first boss, so at least there's that.

[Emerald Archer]

and if I have wasted my mana dpsing because everything seemed fine, then I'm gonna get the blame. Pugs always focus on the tank/healer first when they want to blame someone.

What healer spec do you play?
From what I can tell from your posts, you're either Resto druid, or Holy pally. If you're a Resto druid, and you're going oom in dungeons, you have serious gameplay issues and are failing at basics. And wrath doesn't cost mana.

But if you're playing Holy pally, i have no idea if their abilities cost mana, but again, if you're going oom with them in a dungeon, you're playing seriously wrong.

[Isadora]

They should try, obviously. But way worse than a healer who isn't doing dps is a tank who's just "I keep aggro, I get all the stamina trinkets I can get because more stamina = better tank and apart from that, my job is done". Tanks have been able to do lots of damage since MoP, but their dps has been increased so much since then, it's just bad seeing a tank doing <120k dps.

Personally - I play a blood dk and a disc priest - I get a kick out of doing as much damage as possible as a healer/tank, as long as my group survives/doesn't get hit by mob. I outdpsed a havoc demon hunter yesterday in a mythic+3 vault of the wardens on my disc priest and - granted, he was terrible - it felt amazing.

[Cheze]

So helping the group do something 4-5% faster isn't relevant in your eyes?

In most things in the world people would be thrilled with a 4-5% increase in efficiency. Especially when it could turn a 2 chest run into a 3 or a tight +12 into a run you completed on time.

it's just not a relevant amount of damage most of the time

if your group is extremely close to the timer you can construct a scenario where it matters, but most of the time that isn't the case. And the higher the level of the dungeon is, the less time you have (generally) to throw damage.

[Deleted]

That's the damage of the kind we find on the best parses of Mythic bosses. I guess it's time for all DPS to reroll healer to increase their damage

Except they can only do that if they heal almost nothing and with wings, which means they are wasting their healing CD to do dmg. If your tank and your DPS dont fuck up with mechanics it's fine and worth it, but pugging things means most people will stand in fire so they need some extra heals.

[Kuruption]

As a monk, if I know the group is fine, I'll toss some dps out. On some bosses where I know my crane will be enough, I'll pop and dps the whole encounter.

I'm not sure why others don't do it, but hey, I guess they want to go slower.

[Saphyron]

The point is, Chastise still works as an interrupt. Anything that does anything to prevent a cast, even for half a milisecond, works as an interrupt.

Yes but that was not the reference of the post i replied to they specified it was a stun. and nothing more.
Also most thing you stun/disorient starts casting their spell immediately afterwards, which means it does not really interrupt in that sense of the word.

[Gsara]

Yes but that was not the reference of the post i replied to they specified it was a stun. and nothing more.
Also most thing you stun/disorient starts casting their spell immediately afterwards, which means it does not really interrupt in that sense of the word.

Chastise becomes a 5 sec stun if you take censure for the level 45 talent. Damage doesnt break the stun so It is pretty good for m+.

[scrangos]

I just hope they buff other healers's damage to be not that behind holy pally. -_- It obviously feels pretty good when you can weave in some damage and feel like you contribute. Not so much when you try to do damage but your damage just sucks.

Thats against blizzard anti-fun stance. I'd love for fistweaving to be a thing again but the most likely scenario is they just nerf pallies.

[God Save The King]

For higher keystones, I tend to use more of my abilities as a druid. Sunfire/Moonfire, cat-weaving for trash, typhoon or mighty-bash, ursol's vortex (esp. those little spiders in VoTW).

For keystones below 7, I usually just run them for the easy 2-3 chest, so I can't be bothered.

[ItachiZaku]

There's no reason not to.

That's it there. Even if you are lazy or bad, a sunfire into every pull pack... how hard is that?

[Deleted]

ask for a disc priest where dps is required to do healing.

...and you might still be disappointed. My GF went disco for our last night's EN NM carry. She did outheal better geared healers in her holy setup (not sure if stats are very different, she definitely is a holy priest almost exclusively though) but her damage was negligible. Not sure how to read that, but certainly don't expect super dps from healer even if it's disco.

[melzas]

I would bore myself to death if I was just playing passively in 5 man as a healer, waiting for time when people need heals or just keep everyone topped 24/7.

But yeah it's really a matter of how good/bad a player is. Healers should do extra dps when they dont need to heal, dps should try to avoid damage taken when they can. But if everyone would play perfect, how would you be able to boost your ego? :P

[ItsTiddles]

One thing I see in this thread is the comments on "using mana towards dps". There are several dps buttons for healers that cost little to no mana. Lightning bolt for rshamans is free & lava burst/chain lightning are extremely cheap, wrath for rdruids is free & if you spec balance affinity, the dps options are extremely cheap, smite for hpriests is free & holy fire is cheap and can proc for a double stack, tiger palm/blackout kick/crackling jade lightning are all free for mw monks. If anything, you're actually saving mana by using a global on a free ability rather than an overheal.

I'm pretty sure I'd be looked at as a shitty healer if I kept telling the DPS to use pots/bandage/non-standard healing abilities.

Bandages are probably a little extreme, but if dps don't think they should need to pot... you should replace them. Potting helps out a ridiculous amount when there are multiple dps taking damage and your healer could always use the extra mana.

PS. Out of curiosity... How is other healers ST/AoE DPS in dungeons? I hear a lot of good stuff bout Paladins. How about others?

I can burst 250k-300kish as a resto shaman and maintain over 100k dps on higher m+ just by weaving in flame shock/lava burst between heals.

[Djriff]

Or just replace and find a better healer.

You can tell a mediocre healer from a good one judging from whether they can skilfully weave between necessary healing and dps.

Only true to a point IMO.

If you have a bad group that takes tons of avoidable damage then naturally you'll have spend more time healing than DPS'ing.