beast master night hold 4 set bonus is bad

[Deleted]

At least they fixed the BM 4set. its now 8seconds, down from 10. Everything makes sense now, Ion is a special kind of special.
Opener is Dire Beast???????????????????????????? BW whatever? How can they intend this, when ability 1 reduces cd of ability 2. Sometimes I dont even

[Deleted]

How Dire Frenzy suppost to work with this bonus?

[SeagullMD]

It's gonna be a much bigger DPS increase to just pick up 2 well itemized set pieces for the 2pc and get offset for the rest.

Unless they changed cloak/gloves/belt/legs/boots to have mastery, haven't been on PTR in a bit.

[Brightamethyst]

How Dire Frenzy suppost to work with this bonus?

That's an interesting question. If they handle it like Titan's Thunder, where activating it just buffs the next Dire Frenzy, that might make Dire Frenzy actually worth using. You would still want to use it after BW like normal, instead of after and missing out on 15 seconds.

[Darsey]

Maybe it is possible to clip it so Stomp would also be effected because there is a short delay between the summon and the stump.

But yes, this and TT feels bad and making the right chice impossible. Got a proc right after you clipped DB TT? Feels bad. Waited a global and didn't get a proc? Still feels bad.

It does feel like intentionally there should have been more Dire Beasts around.

[Khrux]

Log on, get legendary shoulders and try out scorpion and spellcaster. If you are half-competent you will compete will all other Aoe-speccs on fights like these.

Can you clarify what you mean her by get scorpion and spellcaster? What is this and what is the benefit of it?

[swiftdeus]

@Khrux, he is saying you should get the new Legendary Shoulders and try them on the new Nighthold Bosses like Skorpyron and Spellblade Aluriel.

Honestly everyone should try and hop on this weekend and try out BM Stuff. I'm really interested to see if the new Legendaries will make a huge difference. I know the Mantle of Command seems like an obviously good choice, but as Tangman said... double direbeast-> before opener seems like a waste of Focus and the loss of Bestial wrath cooldown reduction sucks. You're left with two sub-optimal choices.

[Khrux]

Ah that makes sense, for some reason I thought he was referring to getting a scorpion pet or something. I know pet abilities that do no dps are a benefit to Survival for proccing mongoose charges so thought he was referring to something like this for BM

Thanks for the clarification, I really need to test PTR this weekend. I'm pretty new to hunter, haven't raided with it since Vanilla & TBC but I really dislike the mechanics of MM and want BM to shine if possible. The BM 4pc has alot of the same problems Unholy DK had with their legendary shoulders have buff your gargoyle/army of dead causing you to hold off on using rotational skills to snapshot buffs but it seems alot worse for BM considering the CD reduction interaction Dire Beast has

[swiftdeus]

I would love a comparison of all the 4 PC set bonuses on top on non-4pc dps so that we really understand the issues at hand. Having a clunky 4pc is find if we got a crazy boost in dps, but I feel ours is lack luster and probably at the low end of the dps increases and in some cases like @SeagullMD said, we could probably ditch it all together. This is bad design on Blizzards part unfortunately. Let's pray for more tuning.

[GoKs]

@Khrux, he is saying you should get the new Legendary Shoulders and try them on the new Nighthold Bosses like Skorpyron and Spellblade Aluriel.

Ah I forgot we all will receive the legendary shoulders when we log on in 7.1.5.... how did I miss that???
Special kind of stupid if you try to justify set bonus or even a spec by the legendaries they could use.

[Msa]

Ah I forgot we all will receive the legendary shoulders when we log on in 7.1.5.... how did I miss that???
Special kind of stupid if you try to justify set bonus or even a spec by the legendaries they could use.

Yeah, lets justify trashing a specc because of the set-bonus they can choose to use.

This forum is so locked and addicted to the hunter-hate to the degree of undermining constructive information. Is it likely to believe that you can combine a legendary or two together with set-bonus in the next patch? Yes.

Get on PTR and TEST, as blizzard just said in recent blue-post, because this is debate is so tiresome.

[lucred]

Yeah, lets justify trashing a specc because of the set-bonus they can choose to use.

This forum is so locked and addicted to the hunter-hate to the degree of undermining constructive information. Is it likely to believe that you can combine a legendary or two together with set-bonus in the next patch? Yes.

Get on PTR and TEST, as blizzard just said in recent blue-post, because this is debate is so tiresome.

The point is that you should not NEED a specific legendary (that you may NEVER get if you are unlucky) for a set bonus/spec to be usable. Needing to have A legendary I can sort of see, especially since they said they plan to keep increasing the odds of getting your first legendary, but you should not need a PARTICULAR legendary since it could take months/years to get.

[GoKs]

Yeah, lets justify trashing a specc because of the set-bonus they can choose to use.

This forum is so locked and addicted to the hunter-hate to the degree of undermining constructive information. Is it likely to believe that you can combine a legendary or two together with set-bonus in the next patch? Yes.

Get on PTR and TEST, as blizzard just said in recent blue-post, because this is debate is so tiresome.

Yes sir.... Ion is that you?
If you want to test, sure go ahead, but test without the legendaries, then decide how the spec plays, not with them since they are not a guaranteed drop and most of the people playing the spec wont have them. Dont say BM is fine because legendary X,Y or Z. If you say BM is fine but legendary X would be a nice to have, then sure. What constructive info you talking about? oh the go and buy legendary shoulders and test 2 bosses... very constructive.

[Msa]

The point is that you should not NEED a specific legendary (that you may NEVER get if you are unlucky) for a set bonus/spec to be usable. Needing to have A legendary I can sort of see, especially since they said they plan to keep increasing the odds of getting your first legendary, but you should not need a PARTICULAR legendary since it could take months/years to get.

When I said log on PTR and try out the shoulders legendary, that was one example of making BM more than enough viable to compete with all other speccs. Three, and possibly four, other legendaries will give same competitiveness (LOG ON PTR AND TRY), aswell as pack/thunder high lvl relics, and aran trinket+ursoc. Finally, referring to my original post, a good player with positioning will also be a huge dps increase.

Stop wanting maximun output for mediocre input. Really, play the game and you will have multiple opportunities to become top dps.

[zoned]

After testing most recent build on PTR BM seems more clunky than ever. The 2 piece tier is hardly a DPS increase and the 4 piece seems worthless. The class trinket is also worthless for BM as all it does is throw off your 1 min burst CD's especially if you have legendary bracer. You will end up delaying aspect of the wild almost always to line it up with bestial wrath. I honestly don't see this trinket being used at all by BM hunters in 7.2.

I also did testing as MM with legendary boots, 4 piece and class trinket. The set up is insanely better than BM's, you literally reset TSA every 30 seconds and can probably be reduced much more with TSA relics. With the current spec mechanics and future tier/trinkets I can't see how BM can compete even in M+. None of the BM changes were actually buffs they just made completely useless talents slightly less useless, still not worth specing into.

[GoKs]

When I said log on PTR and try out the shoulders legendary, that was one example of making BM more than enough viable to compete with all other speccs. Three, and possibly four, other legendaries will give same competitiveness (LOG ON PTR AND TRY), aswell as pack/thunder high lvl relics, and aran trinket+ursoc. Finally, referring to my original post, a good player with positioning will also be a Hauge dps increase.

Stop wanting maximun output for mediocre input. Really, play the game and you will have multiple opportunities to become top dps.

You sir... nvm not worth the infraction.

[Msa]

Yes sir.... Ion is that you?
If you want to test, sure go ahead, but test without the legendaries, then decide how the spec plays, not with them since they are not a guaranteed drop and most of the people playing the spec wont have them. Dont say BM is fine because legendary X,Y or Z. If you say BM is fine but legendary X would be a nice to have, then sure. What constructive info you talking about? oh the go and buy legendary shoulders and test 2 bosses... very constructive.

All these people you are benchmarking your specc and dps with have legendaries. All of them. Some have the good ones and some the bad. Why would you test playing a specc without legendaries when they will be present come the patch? If you wanna benchmark BM with the worst legendaries against classes with the best, you are wasting your time.

The constructive info I contribute with is showing cases where BM and setbonus is not bad. Viable and plausible cases that multippel people on this forum will be in and this info is from real testing on PTR. What is your contribution?

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You sir... nvm not worth the infraction.

Nice, hopefully you have decided to log on PTR and test for yourself. Let me know if you need any help installing and copy characters! Will be glad to help you!

[BendakWoW]

After testing most recent build on PTR BM seems more clunky than ever. The 2 piece tier is hardly a DPS increase and the 4 piece seems worthless. The class trinket is also worthless for BM as all it does is throw off your 1 min burst CD's especially if you have legendary bracer. You will end up delaying aspect of the wild almost always to line it up with bestial wrath. I honestly don't see this trinket being used at all by BM hunters in 7.2.

I also did testing as MM with legendary boots, 4 piece and class trinket. The set up is insanely better than BM's, you literally reset TSA every 30 seconds and can probably be reduced much more with TSA relics. With the current core mechanics and future tier/trinkets I can't see how BM can compete even in M+. None of the BM changes were actually buffs they just made completely useless talents slightly less useless, still not worth specing into.

The 2p and 4p combined are worth about a 3% increase, the lions's share of that being the 2p. They are absolutely terrible and I don't understand why Blizz is insistent at leaving them like this. Been giving feedback on this topic since beta to no avail. I give up at this point.

As for BM tuning, they seemed to indicate there would be improvements. As it stands now, I think we're still slightly lower than live, even after the recent item buffs.

[zoned]

As for BM tuning, they seemed to indicate there would be improvements. As it stands now, I think we're still slightly lower than live, even after the recent item buffs.

Agreed. I noticed on PTR that even with BIS legendaries and 4 piece I was still doing about 10% less damage than I do on live with just legendary bracer and helm at 885 il.

[GoKs]

All these people you are benchmarking your specc and dps with have legendaries. All of them. Some have the good ones and some the bad. Why would you test playing a specc without legendaries when they will be present come the patch? If you wanna benchmark BM with the worst legendaries against classes with the best, you are wasting your time.

The constructive info I contribute with is showing cases where BM and setbonus is not bad. Viable and plausible cases that multippel people on this forum will be in and this info is from real testing on PTR. What is your contribution?

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Nice, hopefully you have decided to log on PTR and test for yourself. Let me know if you need any help installing and copy characters! Will be glad to help you!

Ok I tried..... just cant hold it any more, so infraction inc.

You are definately the fucking dumbest troll ever. When we said test without legandaries, we actually ment all the classes and specs, but only you will be stupid enough to test a class without a legendary against one with one or even multiple. They (blizz) should have withheld the legendaries till later, and first tested with only the setpieces, then balance the classes, and then add the legendaries. It has been pointed out to you a couple of times that you cant assume that everyone will get the needed legandaries to make the class viable (not only BM hunters but all classes, since I have to keep pointing that out to you).

I have not made any contribution, same as you, since I am most probably the worst hunter EU and dont think that me saying "herp dps is bad" will actually be a true indication of the spec, but since respectable hunters like Bendak and Kenny ect. pointed out that it is no good (the set bonus), I tend to believe them.

Now is BM any good with the setpieces and specific legendaries... I have no doubt, but it should not come to legendarie RNG to make a class/spec viable.