LFR's effort-reward model

[Lady Dragonheart]

In all seriousness, LFR is more difficult than Normal, in my opinion. You have many more people that simply do not know fights, or do not care about mechanics, pulling extra mobs, and simply AFKing/alt-tabbing. This is much rarer of a case in normal modes, the only saving grace being that in LFR whenever there is a wipe people leave (or are kicked) and are immediately replaced via the queuing system. While normal mode is harder, groups are significantly more organized, generally have voice utility, have less people tabbing/AFK, and care substantially more about participating in the fights. Therefore, in my opinion, LFR is significantly more stressful and frustrating than normal, even if it is only slightly more difficult.

[tikcol]

LFR is not hard. 1/3rd of the raid can literally AFK through it.

It shouldn't give anywhere near what norm/heroic/mythic gives.

I partake in LFR weekly for the last couple of years and I can't understand where the rest of the players got the idea that LFR is easy.

Most of the time I enter I see people with food, potting and using flasks. We immediately try to organize to the best of our ability and complete the challenges ahead of us. We still wipe a lot. Usually when a player goes afk then it's a instant wipe, how did you even get the idea that 1/3 of the raid can afk ?

It's just not true.

[kary]

LFR ilvl (at release) = Max World Quest Ilvl (at release)

That is a completely fair item level based on current difficulty and is what we see with ToV. If Nighthold is as "hard" as ToV LFR, then the later bosses should be 5 ilvl over WQ rewards.

Currently, LFR Nighthold is set to be 25 ilvls (850) below normal (875) which just seems 100% wrong...that is also 15 ilvl below crafted gear in 7.1.5 (865). We know that WQ reward ilvl has a very high chance of being increased to remain relevant...so LFR Nighthold should match that ilvl. If LFR Nighthold ends up being less than WQ gear...there will be riots and I would *love* to see Blizzards explanation on why LFR should get less rewards than kicking nuts on the ground.

Kicking nuts off the ground is harder than LFR. You actually have to click the squirrels and nuts.

[Deleted]

It isn't as simple as that. I believe players that decide not to partake in organized raiding shouldn't be labeled as weak and useless by the rest of the community.

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That goes against the whole purpose

You say it as though your post has true purpose... How strong do you want to be?
Non-Organised raiders, is what LFR is... Looking For Raid, it means you don't want to organise a raid, you want to just jump in when you want.

You say that non-organised raiders should be stronger, but non-organised raiders is literally just another alternative to saying LFR players in your situation...

[Otimus]

You are.

100% of the time you are.

I left the forum for a while, but it's good to see you're still as much of an inflammatory, unsociable, and generally as rude a person as ever.

Why would anyone want to actively act like this. It makes people think very poorly of your character as a person. Which either means you don't care that people on the internet think this lowly of you, or you want people to think lowly of you, which is just plain weird.

Be a nicer person. Don't immediately jump into "I must put people down mode". It's a poor sight.


(Frankly, I think MMOC should be more proactive in removing toxic people, but they seemingly don't give a fuck and people like you revel in it. Possibly proudly, even... for some reason.)

[tikcol]

I'ma pretend this isn't a troll:

If I am understanding this right... you believe that LFR requires more effort than the reward given for doing it? Is that correct?

Exactly. I can't pretend to prove that LFR is as difficult as Mythic. I can tell you that LFR gear should be higher ilevel, comparable with what the top organized raiding difficulty provides.

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Stopped reading right around there. LFR gear is absolutely in line with its difficulty. Next!

I wonder where did you get your metric and what method you employ in order to use it in order to arrive to that preposterous conclusion

[Deleted]

15 isn't too bad as warforge +5/+10 or +15 titanforge isn't too rare, 25 is too much however and not consistent with the 2 previous raids.

Just so everyone knows.

LFR on PTR is 855+ and Normal is 870+

[tikcol]

hahahahaha what a joke, not even biting just adding to ignore list.

there is a thing called EFFORT VS REWARD. if you make idiot ignore mechanics mode reward the same as you missed a dps check by 1% or you only just failed at a mechanic ALL RAID DIES who's going to raid mythic? no-one just afk LFR get best gear...fuck whatever i was going to say this is a joke.

You're welcome to ignore my ideas. Just keep assured they still exist and I'll be speaking about what I think is right and true.

[kary]

I partake in LFR weekly for the last couple of years and I can't understand where the rest of the players got the idea that LFR is easy.

Most of the time I enter I see people with food, potting and using flasks. We immediately try to organize to the best of our ability and complete the challenges ahead of us. We still wipe a lot. Usually when a player goes afk then it's a instant wipe, how did you even get the idea that 1/3 of the raid can afk ?

It's just not true.

Hahahahaha I will need to see screenshots of people with fresh flasks in LFR to believe it. Especially since flasks arent basically free anymore.

[tikcol]

Let's stop giving people handouts just because they cry like little babies to avoid another WoD where the game just does everything for you and you just loot BiS gear all day.

I would gladly take "another WoD"

[Otimus]

Just so everyone knows.

LFR on PTR is 855+ and Normal is 870+

That seems fine to me. Honestly, the only thing that has wonky ilvls in LFR is EN. Most people complained about it back then as a problem that'd fix itself with time, and it (pretty much) has/will.

[tikcol]

You say it as though your post has true purpose... How strong do you want to be?
Non-Organised raiders, is what LFR is... Looking For Raid, it means you don't want to organise a raid, you want to just jump in when you want.

You say that non-organised raiders should be stronger, but non-organised raiders is literally just another alternative to saying LFR players in your situation...

What about the increase in difficulty the lack of organization implies?

[anon5123]

"wahh wahh I want the best gear for no effort"

What about the increase in difficulty the lack of organization implies?

the lack of organization is far offset by the severe lack of difficulty

have you even done LFR

you can do all the mechanics wrong and still steamroll it

nice bait, got me to reply

[Choda]

I would gladly take "another WoD"

I know you would.

On a related note, I heard of this great new game called FarmVille.

[Socialhealer]

And you can be sure that the vast majority of the AFK's are the heroic/mythic raiders that bitch about being "forced" to run LFR...

lol typical LFR "player" oh yeh LFR is great and the shitters in there are the better geared heroic/mythic raiders, the best players suck the most and the LFR players are equally or even better skilled and just all round better players and better people fuck heroic/mythic retards they're special snowflakes.

right nice denial.

[Deleted]

Why is that?

Because the mechanics you are against to doesn't push you any further, therefore your room of improvement is directly blocked by the quality of your training.

[kary]

I left the forum for a while, but it's good to see you're still as much of an inflammatory, unsociable, and generally as rude a person as ever.

Why would anyone want to actively act like this. It makes people think very poorly of your character as a person. Which either means you don't care that people on the internet think this lowly of you, or you want people to think lowly of you, which is just plain weird.

Be a nicer person. Don't immediately jump into "I must put people down mode". It's a poor sight.


(Frankly, I think MMOC should be more proactive in removing toxic people, but they seemingly don't give a fuck and people like you revel in it. Possibly proudly, even... for some reason.)

Cool. It's obvious that you're still enamoured with me for whatever reason, I'm surprised you haven't learned to fuck off yet.
And, to ask you the same question, do you think you get internet brownie points by pretending that dogshit awful people aren't dogshit awful? That maybe you can soothe and nurture them into being not awful? Lmao.

I didn't come out and say that he's bad. He suggested that they weren't bad, and I corrected him.

[Eazy]

I think that playing with people from LFR is harder than playing with your own coordinated guild group, therefore LFR gear should be higher.

/s

[tikcol]

I know you would.

On a related note, I heard of this great new game called FarmVille.

I played that game and I don't think it's a good replacement to WoW if that's what you're implying here.

[Turkeytoe]

As someone who has yet to set foot in a Normal difficulty raid this expansion, I think LFR is spot on. It's good exposure to see how the fights work and to not be totally left out of the lore. It's insanely easy, I'm an 860 prot pally and pretty much solo tank everything in LFR EN except for the dragons. The ToV raid is a little more difficult, but I think that's only because it's still new and there are a few mechanics you actually have to do.

I don't have as much time as I used to so I don't think I'll ever be part of a dedicated raid team, so it's nice to still be able to raid and experience content. With that said, the fights are extremely easy and there is no way I would expect LFR loot to be comparable with other difficulty loot. I have Dungeons and the Warforged/Titanforged system to slowly increase my ilvl. The only thing that sucks is that some of the quests are tied to Normal difficulty, so eventually I'll have to find a way/time to join a Normal raid.

Loot this expansion is easy to get, granted I haven't played since Cata. It's nice to be able to log on everyday and have a good shot of getting an upgrade from WQ or the upgrade system instead of having to wait until the following raid week since nothing dropped for me this week.

To me, gear is more accessible than ever, but it still follows the rule of more play/difficulty=more reward and that's how it should and hopefully always will be.