Aran's ninja nerfed?

[Deleted]

Tested it too now because I couldn't take this BS anymore.
So... I wanted to stop immediatly after getting *4* procs in less than a minute before Titan's Thunder off CD again, but I said fuck it, I'm just going to spam MS for some more.

First of all, the 3 targets in the orderhall are not close enough to each other, only if the target in the middle gets the trinket proc (but that's random if you use MS) you'll hit all 3.
Combat length 7m1s, 15 procs. I had multiple procs on different targets (2 at the same time too) and multiple procs back to back on one target .
As BM I might add.

So... everything is working just fine.
The trinket literally had a debuff uptime of 19,6%, even though the procs overlapped. So even if we don't take into account that the debuff overlapped, we get 84 seconds out of it, which is 14 procs worth of duration... in a 7 minute fight. Which is about 2 procs per minute. So *very* far away from the 0,92 (or whatever) melees get - So far away, that it's very unlikely that I need to do this again.

Btw.. I just noticed (even though it's rather logical, yet not 100% true): In Aran's case
if it had
10% debuff-uptime = closer to 1 RPPM
but it has
20% debuff-uptime = closer to 2 RPPM

[Deleted]

my reacion when people are arguing on here

[Aggrophobic]

aka being bad

Where are your logs showing you being better?

[zoned]

@KrayZee
Still at dummy 30 min now not one overlapping or multiple proc. Please screen shot if you get multiples.

I really want it to happen so this can be over. Nothing yet

45 min now still nothing. If your saying you got multiples or overlapping procs either the chance of this occurring has been nerfed somehow or some sort of short icd was put on proc.

[Deleted]

my reacion when people are arguing on here

as Italian, neither me.

[Mavick]

Not going to say it was nerfed in any way, because it seems the same proc-wise since I first got it about a week and a half ago. However, I do think it's been overvalued on ST or any raid boss fight type that's not Ilgynoth on sim lists like Azor's guide.

I ran it for the first week I had it and was suddenly struggling against the other two hunters when I normally don't. Switched it back to my 875 Urn with socket this week(My ruby was just a standard 860 and I had 875 chest from Nightbane, my best chest at the time, other trinket being an 890 socketed Bloodthirsty), and suddenly I was back where I felt I should be on damage. I know this isn't the most scientific testing but my gut feeling is that the trinket is just simply too reliant on good RNG proc timing and I honestly just hate that kind of shit. In fact without it I even nailed a rank 24 on mythic Ursoc (ok, pathetic epeen waving moment over, sorry guys).

I'll probably just use it for m+ from this point forward, unless I happen to get a higher ilevel one at some point. But I don't plan to use it in raids anymore. Even on Ilgynoth, when it does stupid damage every time no matter what, most of the time that damage can be more of a hindrance on slimes anyway since it's pretty much uncontrollable.

[Deleted]

@KrayZee
Still at dummy 30 min now not one overlapping or multiple proc. Please screen shot if you get multiples.

I really want it to happen so this can be over. Nothing yet

45 min now still nothing. If your saying you got multiples or overlapping procs either the chance of this occurring has been nerfed somehow or some sort of short icd was put on proc.

The chance was never high to begin with. You might be getting one or two inside a whole dungeon and the game won't have me that focused that I'd even realize it most of the time, especially if it hits the same mob twice. The 4 proccs in 1 minute is extremely lucky too - it just happened when I started (it's probably not even likely to get a proc from the very first attack either) popping all my CDs when I initiated the combat.

Did another 5:25 3-dummy test just for you, 30 targets hit = 10 procs
Close to 2 per minute again. Didn't have an overlapping one though, 2 times however the time between 2 proccs was lower than ~4s after the first proc expired.
Flame Wreath uptime was 18,2% this time around.

[Pijips]

Not going to say it was nerfed in any way, because it seems the same proc-wise since I first got it about a week and a half ago. However, I do think it's been overvalued on ST or any raid boss fight type that's not Ilgynoth on sim lists like Azor's guide.

I ran it for the first week I had it and was suddenly struggling against the other two hunters when I normally don't. Switched it back to my 875 Urn with socket this week(My ruby was just a standard 860 and I had 875 chest from Nightbane, my best chest at the time, other trinket being an 890 socketed Bloodthirsty), and suddenly I was back where I felt I should be on damage. I know this isn't the most scientific testing but my gut feeling is that the trinket is just simply too reliant on good RNG proc timing and I honestly just hate that kind of shit. In fact without it I even nailed a rank 24 on mythic Ursoc (ok, pathetic epeen waving moment over, sorry guys).

I'll probably just use it for m+ from this point forward, unless I happen to get a higher ilevel one at some point. But I don't plan to use it in raids anymore. Even on Ilgynoth, when it does stupid damage every time no matter what, most of the time that damage can be more of a hindrance on slimes anyway since it's pretty much uncontrollable.

Urn gives a consistent, flat damage boost. Ruby can have pretty large variance in its damage. Still, the whole point of those sims is to show that on a large enough sample size the average damage of ruby will beat the average damage of urn. With that sample size you can't judge if the damage difference is even because of the trinkets in the first place. In fact if you cared about your ranks you would use what has the highest damage potential.

[Mavick]

I understand all of what you're saying. The point I'm trying to make is that if you go strictly off those rankings on the guides, as I'm sure 95% of us who care do, the trinket is being overvalued. Not all boss situations match the "sample size" that the sims provide, and I know Azor goes to great lengths to do it the best he can as even he is not the biggest proponent of going off sim rankings. But in the end you're limited by the tools you have, and sim-c just simply doesn't cover every type of boss scenario.

And I guess the other part of it is the kind of player you are. If you prefer to go "win the lotto" mode and get some beastly RNG and get that one awesome parse out of 20 mediocre ones, then this is probably the trinket for you. Just not me, personally. I've just seen too many pulls where it just decides to not proc, or proc on adds that die a second before the proc goes off. Just too irritating to deal with tbh.

[Deulon]

They are going to do the same thing that they did with Twisting Wind. Nerf it until it's literally the worse trinket in the game.

[Arrol]

I understand all of what you're saying. The point I'm trying to make is that if you go strictly off those rankings on the guides, as I'm sure 95% of us who care do, the trinket is being overvalued. Not all boss situations match the "sample size" that the sims provide, and I know Azor goes to great lengths to do it the best he can as even he is not the biggest proponent of going off sim rankings. But in the end you're limited by the tools you have, and sim-c just simply doesn't cover every type of boss scenario.

And I guess the other part of it is the kind of player you are. If you prefer to go "win the lotto" mode and get some beastly RNG and get that one awesome parse out of 20 mediocre ones, then this is probably the trinket for you. Just not me, personally. I've just seen too many pulls where it just decides to not proc, or proc on adds that die a second before the proc goes off. Just too irritating to deal with tbh.

We figured out that the sims currently are not boosting arans damage by Lone Wolf, so the sims are actually currently undervaluing the trinket compared to live and in sims it should be doing 18% more damage than it already is.

Not sure why Zoned is asking for people to screenshot the multiple procs thing when i already did it and posted the screenshot for him.

[Mavick]

We figured out that the sims currently are not boosting arans damage by Lone Wolf, so the sims are actually currently undervaluing the trinket compared to live and in sims it should be doing 18% more damage than it already is.

That's all well and good, I suppose. But in real fight situations, in more cases than not, other trinkets are certainly outperforming it regardless of the sims being right or not.

[Sarevokcz]

That's all well and good, I suppose. But in real fight situations, in more cases than not, other trinkets are certainly outperforming it regardless of the sims being right or not.

if they were, the trinket wouldnt be as popular in either mythic+ or mythic top rankings, so in real fight situations, the trinket IS good, especially since there are so many bad ones

[Arrol]

That's all well and good, I suppose. But in real fight situations, in more cases than not, other trinkets are certainly outperforming it regardless of the sims being right or not.

Your extremely small and high variance sample size does not a fact make. Feelycraft your way to lower dps tho if you'd like.

Trinket performs fine. Better than any other with chest.

[Deleted]

That's all well and good, I suppose. But in real fight situations, in more cases than not, other trinkets are certainly outperforming it regardless of the sims being right or not.

It just give FLAT MASTERY, you need a lot of effort to outperforming FLAT MASTERY + "NICE PROC" like aran one.

[Mavick]

I never said anything about it not being good in m+. In fact I think you'd be an idiot to have it and not use it in those. I'm only talking about it's value on current raid bosses. And I'm not saying it's garbage period. ALL I AM SAYING is that it doesn't always work as advertised, and other trinkets can easily outperform it given the RNG nature of it. I've even been told some hunters in top 20 guilds stopped using it on M Helya (a fight you would think it would be insane on) because adds like the oozes just die before the procs can go off. Things like that are all I'm pointing out, simple as that.

- - - Updated - - -

Your extremely small and high variance sample size does not a fact make. Feelycraft your way to lower dps tho if you'd like.

Trinket performs fine. Better than any other with chest.

As opposed to ignoring my real situation experience and instead relying on the sims that have been OH SO ACCURATE this expansion. Yeah, ok genius. At least I was able to "feelycraft" my way to much better dps results by making an informed decision that relies on more than just blind data.

[Deleted]

That's all well and good, I suppose. But in real fight situations, in more cases than not, other trinkets are certainly outperforming it regardless of the sims being right or not.

First of ALL Aran gives FLAT MASTERY, and this already 1buff for ST/MT regardless the proc

Second, the PROC isnt something turbo retard like TwistWind or Narax that is simmed at the perfect range (situation that happen only vs mannequin)

You need trinket with AGI + Random Stats BUT 890 to nearly compete with 860 ARAN w/o CHEST and this is already a proof that the trinket is really really good (check how unstable arc is slightly behind ARAN SET, check its stats and check the other flat trinket 890 agi+random stats)

Last but not least, if you get the nightbane chest, ARAN became un-comparable.





So less feelcraft more testing.

[Mavick]

Well the last two sentences are just completely untrue. But by all means, keep believing it. I'm not going to sit here arguing with idiots on mmo-c all day about it.

[Deleted]

I wonder what kind of boss scenario are you imagining that you believe Aran doesn't always work like it's "advertised"... because.. it literally can't fail to hit.
You get what you see, and we see a ~700k average hit (depending on ilvl) with about 2 procs per minute.

It's (most likely) the strongest damage proc in the game right now, especially if you consider the frequency. The sims doesn't overvalue it at all imho - the sims just show the average value of it.

[Turtel]

I wonder what kind of boss scenario are you imagining that you believe Aran doesn't always work like it's "advertised"... because.. it literally can't fail to hit.
You get what you see, and we see a ~700k average hit (depending on ilvl) with about 2 procs per minute.

It's (most likely) the strongest damage proc in the game right now, especially if you consider the frequency. The sims doesn't overvalue it at all imho.

I don't have the trinket, but from my understanding, if it procs on a target that dies within 6 seconds, you'll lose that proc. This is a DPS loss associated with the trinket that won't be modelled in sims.

Considering how close some of the trinkets are, even losing a single proc could tip the balance in favour of another trinket. On a 5 minute fight for example, losing a single 700k damage proc would mean a loss of 2.3k DPS. On the icy veins MM sims page, the Ethereal Urn sims at 334.5k while Aran's sims for 335.9k, which is only a difference of 1.4k DPS.