Ohio passes 'heartbeat' abortion bill

[Crissi]

A woman still has to follow the laws on abortion. She can't have one after it's legally not allowed, just because she was raped, etc.

The problem comes from a virtual blanket ban by virtue of not being allowed to have one after discovering you are pregnant, since many women take 6 weeks to know (my mom took 8 weeks with me). That makes it fundamentally anti-choice, so you cant be pro choice and for this law.

and its blatently against the Roe v Wade ruling anyways.

[Seani]

Planned Parenthood does not in any way have eugenics as a core philosophy.

It's crazy for me to think that because the founder of PPH was a Eugenicist and a Racist, that she had no influence on the philosophy and ideology of the group? There isn't any debate here, Sanger's work has been well documented and recorded, the only recourse a PPH supporter has is to distance Sanger somehow from the group, even though she founded the organization and the political movement.

[Chrysia]

I had said I don't personally believe in abortion, and that's because I do think life starts the moment of fertilization. But because I'm also pro-choice, I try to sympathize with women that do believe in it. I think a good middle ground (personally) is when a heartbeat is detected, because more people can agree life has started at that specific point.

Except, as Crissi right above your post, said, this would effectively ban abortion for a shitload of women, especially women who have taken birth control at any point. One of the effects of birth control can be an irregular period when you go off it.

[Espe]

I think a good middle ground (personally) is when a heartbeat is detected, because more people can agree life has started at that specific point.

That is far too early for many women to even realize they are pregnant, let alone decide and plan for an abortion if it is necessary. But I assume you already know that because you are at least a high school graduate, right?

..... right?

[Seani]

That would be the definition of "born," yes.

The fetus is always alive. Being alive doesn't necessarily grant you any inherent rights, though I generally agree with the right to life of a fetus. They just don't have the right to life at someone else's expense. That holds true for everyone, by the way.

But the fetus has a fully functioning spine well before he/she leaves the womb. Now, we are back to arguing morality, when you said yourself it doesn't matter what I think I agreed with you. However, said hey don't tax me for it. If you force me to pay for your abortion, and that is enforced, that is a tyrannical act of government.

[Espe]

I should have just kept my opinion to myself

On that we can all agree, especially when your ignorant "opinion" would cause mass harm to young girls and women.

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But the fetus has a fully functioning spine well before he/she leaves the womb.

So if a fetus is now magically a person why are you for abortion in cases of rape and incest? How is the process of conception the fetuses fault?

[Chrysia]

It's crazy for me to think that because the founder of PPH was a Eugenicist and a Racist, that she had no influence on the philosophy and ideology of the group? There isn't any debate here, Sanger's work has been well documented and recorded, the only recourse a PPH supporter has is to distance Sanger somehow from the group, even though she founded the organization and the social movement.

Sanger has been dead for 50 years now. I feel pretty confident the group has moved on a bit. Sanger was also against using government force to promote eugenics, with the possible exception of the "exceptionally retarded," something she never defined and didn't spend any of her political clout lobbying for.

[Elegiac]

A brain dead comatose person has a heart beat.

It's an arbitrary and shitty cut off point.

Republicans don't believe in euthanasia either.

[Total Crica]

I'm just going to back out of this thread now, guys. I've already gotten requoted numerous times, and thats generally why I try to avoid topics like this. I should have just kept my opinion to myself, since I know abortions debates can get really personal and heated.

No one minds you having an opinion, it's when you want to force others to adhere to your opinion that upsets them. Only the pregnant woman's choice should be adhered to for her body in this subject.

[Chrysia]

But the fetus has a fully functioning spine well before he/she leaves the womb. Now, we are back to arguing morality, when you said yourself it doesn't matter what I think I agreed with you. However, said hey don't tax me for it. If you force me to pay for abortion that is a tyrannical act of government.

What does the fetus having a spine have to do with whether it's "born" or not? Birth is the point at which the fetus has left the mother's body, either naturally or through c-section, and become autonomous.

We've been over this. You already aren't taxed for it. You're fighting a non-battle with this stupidity.

[the game]

On that we can all agree, especially when your ignorant "opinion" would cause mass harm to young girls and women.

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So if a fetus is now magically a person why are you for abortion in cases of rape and incest? How is the process of conception the fetuses fault?

Do you have to wind petty insults into every reply you make? Are you mentally incapable of having a conversation without it?

[Seani]

I have bad news about America then for you kiddo.

Yeah, I have gone back and forth with you before. You argue for the sake of argument, thanks but no thanks.

[Espe]

No one minds you having an opinion, it's when you want to force others to adhere to your opinion that upsets them. Only the pregnant woman's choice should be adhered to for her body in this subject.

Apparently there are some people who are perfectly fine with being stripped of their constitutional right to bodily autonomy.

I think now I've seen it all.

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Do you have to wind petty insults into every reply you make? Are you mentally incapable of having a conversation without it?

Look who's talking

You do realize your entire post history is visible to everyone else, right?

[Seani]

Except, as Crissi right above your post, said, this would effectively ban abortion for a shitload of women, especially women who have taken birth control at any point. One of the effects of birth control can be an irregular period when you go off it.

Crissi, the moderator that infracts people for disagreeing with the general theme of the OP. This is why the real winner of the debate are the nitwits that side with the moderator on everything.

[Total Crica]

Apparently there are some people who are perfectly fine with being stripped of their constitutional right to bodily autonomy.

I think now I've seen it all.

Women like her would carry all pregnancies to term and believe all women should, that's all. If you forced them to do things with their body they did NOT want to do, they would be upset, I promise.

[the game]

Apparently there are some people who are perfectly fine with being stripped of their constitutional right to bodily autonomy.

I think now I've seen it all.

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Look who's talking

You do realize your entire post history is visible to everyone else, right?

so that's a no then?

[Chrysia]

Crissi, the moderator that infracts people for disagreeing with the general theme of the OP.

What the fuck does her moderation habits have to do with her factual statement about women who don't know they're pregnant until after the heartbeat has formed?

[Espe]

so that's a no then?

I'm just going to let you argue with yourself on this one.

He's probably just intimidated by raven's brain.

You're probably right, mayhem, but that's no way to talk about mayhem!

[the game]

I'm just going to let you argue with yourself on this one.


You're probably right, mayhem, but that's no way to talk about mayhem!

kk so that's a no then. Gotcha.

[Espe]

Gotcha.

Thanks for your insights into the topic of this thread!