Keystone system what do you think?

[Deleted]

Hi everyone,


What do you guys think about the new Mythic+ Keystone system?

Imo its ONLY good if your in a guild, and your REALLY good friends with 4 other people in the guild, besides that, i think its the worst system at the moment,. Lets say im not in a guild, and want to Pug Mythic+ using the premade system, Then its like the old days where you try to find a group for houres, where you spammed trade chat untill you where lucky to get a group. The reason is because most groups are just boost groups, or the groups that need a DPS, Only need the right classes, so some classes will NEVER get a spot, or they req. a REALLY high item level.

Imo i dont think its fun to just look at a premade system queueing up all the time to just not get a group.

What do you guys think?

[b0928]

I'm okay with it overall. I've always liked dungeons more than any other activity, so making them relevant to keep running is great to me. It does have some problems that don't have easy solutions, like locking in the group of 5. Yes, it prevents the group from kicking and replacing someone near the end, or character swapping, but then it screws everyone over if one person leaves. No good solution to that problem.

My biggest complaint because it is something that is incredibly easy to fix, is they need to scale AP rewards based on the length of the dungeons.

[Venarik]

Never been a big fan of trying to sell myself to groups, especially as a pure dps in such a dps saturated pool.
I would rather queue and fail as a group than spend hours applying for groups and getting denied because nobody wants to take an 860 when there are dozens of 880 dps lined up.

[Merlunie]

Never been a big fan of trying to sell myself to groups, especially as a pure dps in such a dps saturated pool.
I would rather queue and fail as a group than spend hours applying for groups and getting denied because nobody wants to take an 860 when there are dozens of 880 dps lined up.

Feel like I am beating a dead horse here, but maybe if you made your own group this wouldn't be an issue? I don't get this complaint.

[Merlunie]

Hard enough finding healers and tanks now you want to look for one yourself as a dps? People love to say what you just said, but truth is, it takes way to long forming your own group as dps.

Playing a hunter and shadow priest I never had an issue and still don't. If you have an issue making your own group and finding a tank and healer join a guild. Post in Trade or LFG. Like plenty of people don't have issues finding groups.

[Irian]

Don't care for it much. Things not having a cap means that they can be grinded and things that can be grinded are difficult to realistically balance.

And as someone who loved challenge modes...I fucking hate the timer system in M+. I'm sick of being on a timer. It breeds this "gottagofast" attitude amongst players even worse than it already is, and as a warlock I literally cannot keep up with a fast group unless I take the burning rush which frankly just feels like shit. I remember hearing that one of Legion's goals was to make combat with mobs feel longer so you'd have the opportunity to use your abilities and if anything I feel like it's the opposite, with classes like demon hunters having insane mobility and several classes having cleave effects that decimate packs of mobs in seconds to the point where CC is yet again nonexistent.

This kind of thing was fun for challenge modes because it was niche and different, and on a per-character basis you'd generally only do it once unless you sold carries or ran with friends. When turned into the endgame, constantly being in a rush can cause burnout way faster than virtually anything.

[Merlunie]

Lol you play op fotm ranged? Try being a melee that isnt WW monk. Next question please.

And I am in a guild, a raid guild. Not everyone likes doing 5mans over and over. But please, continue to be condescending, clearly there is no problem with finding groups even though the lead developer has said they could do better with the group finder. Carry on I say!

Played priest for 4 xpacs. I like How having a conversation turns into you being a jerk. WW monks are great in M+,I can also form groups on my group and boomking. So keep making excuses for yourself.

[kary]

I never said anything about any excuses. I just don't bother to look for groups or do mythic+. I don't need it, I'm in a raid guild that doesn't treat their raid members like cattle.

I'm just not deluded enough to recognize theirs a problem among the gaming community that would rather go for the "sure thing" than risk an extra few minutes because of class bias or previous experiences. Its not a problem with blizzard, its a gaming culture problem.

So you're saying that someone that played a class for years is now suddenly a fotm reroll opportunist? lmao

Tune down the angst, buddy.

[Deleted]

Don't care for it much. Things not having a cap means that they can be grinded and things that can be grinded are difficult to realistically balance.

And as someone who loved challenge modes...I fucking hate the timer system in M+. I'm sick of being on a timer. It breeds this "gottagofast" attitude amongst players even worse than it already is, and as a warlock I literally cannot keep up with a fast group unless I take the burning rush which frankly just feels like shit. I remember hearing that one of Legion's goals was to make combat with mobs feel longer so you'd have the opportunity to use your abilities and if anything I feel like it's the opposite, with classes like demon hunters having insane mobility and several classes having cleave effects that decimate packs of mobs in seconds to the point where CC is yet again nonexistent.

This kind of thing was fun for challenge modes because it was niche and different, and on a per-character basis you'd generally only do it once unless you sold carries or ran with friends. When turned into the endgame, constantly being in a rush can cause burnout way faster than virtually anything.

Maybe you should try anything above +2, problem solved.

[Ealyssa]

Hard enough finding healers and tanks now you want to look for one yourself as a dps? People love to say what you just said, but truth is, it takes way to long forming your own group as dps.

That's lot of bullshit. People looooove to say it's super hard to create a group. Truth is it's not, at all. And more than likely the groups you are trying to queue in where made by DPS too. Because tanks and healer are super asked, they don't need to create theirs.

They are hundreds of lazy fucks just as lazy as you "Oh my god it's soooo much work to make 3 clicks to creat a group lets just find one allready created", those same lazy players are also usually the one with the same lowish ilvl as you (looks like lazyness lead to subpar ilvl, so strange...)

I have 5 110 characters now. And on these 2 were pretty much solo geared with no tanks/no healers on my guild avalaible to boost my useless DPS alts. I create groups, I ask for normal ilvl, sometime group fail just like it would on random queues, often it clears the dungeon just fine. And once you have passed 860+ welcome to Mythic+ boosting bonanza. Create your own group for stupid easy keys and once into the 6-9 sweet spot get boosted 3 chests by the hundreds of groups craving for keys.

And make contacts. Yeah, I know, you would prefere the socially akward safe space of instant queues. But that's not how it works when you are a solo DPS. When the group did well don't hesitate to share your btag.

One important things tho, it helps being good at the game... Being a solo DPS, with lowish ilvl AND subpar performances will lead you nowhere. Be good, and you'll be more than fine. I'm even starting to get a few /w from my bnet list for my DPS alts (even if obviously the majority of demands are for my main tank).

[Alopex Major]

Probably an unpopular opinion around here, but I dislike it, and knew I would dislike it back when I first heard of it. Running the same dungeon hundreds of times is not fun for me, it also requires either guildies to be online, willing to go, and in need of my role, or sitting in group finder, neither of which I find appealing. I haven't done one in over a month, nor do I plan to.

[Deleted]

two of the strongest ranged specs in the game

lul what?!

[Irian]

Maybe you should try anything above +2, problem solved.

I've successfully run a +12. Good job unsuccessfully attempting to invalidate my post without actually reading it, but the points I made still stand.

Combat is still even at higher levels fairly spammy and AoE mob focused and the hurry aspect is still present even at higher ranks. M+ is grindy, you are constantly on a timer and unfortunately it's often the case that running lower ranks is more efficient for farming legendaries/gear because of titanforging, because 3 chests are almost always better than 1 chest of 870+ gear at higher M+ levels, which is a giant flaw in the system where the spammy lower ranks are often a more sensible route if you're just trying to get gear.

[Deleted]

I've successfully run a +12. Good job unsuccessfully attempting to invalidate my post without actually reading it, but the points I made still stand.

Combat is still even at higher levels fairly spammy and AoE mob focused and the hurry aspect is still present even at higher ranks. M+ is grindy, you are constantly on a timer and unfortunately it's often the case that running lower ranks is more efficient for farming legendaries/gear because of titanforging, because 3 chests are almost always better than 1 chest of 870+ gear at higher M+ levels, which is a giant flaw in the system where the spammy lower ranks are often a more sensible route if you're just trying to get gear.

My response was meant to counter your invalid argument that mobs dies in second and you can't keep up with the group. That scenario only happens in the very low m+ (as in +2), therefore your post is not logic.

Also CC non-existent? CC includes stuns and interrupts and are key factors to beating high m+ timers. Another flawed argument from you.

But hey, who am I to speak. You have successfully ran a +12 timer, lol'd.

[Hiricine]

The biggest problem they need to fix is the plateau at 10. Tyrranical and Fortified only create an artificial break point that really serves no purpose, and the challenge of the dungeon either becomes just the trash or just the bosses, which would scale more naturally without the tyrannical or fortified affix. If Blizz feels that 15 would be too easy for the achievement or for the gear rewards they should just increase the level of the dungeon you need to get those rewards anyways (which for most part is the +12 reward anyways).

[Irian]

My response was meant to counter your invalid argument that mobs dies in second and you can't keep up with the group. That scenario only happens in the very low m+ (as in +2), therefore your post is not logic.

Also CC non-existent? CC includes stuns and interrupts and are key factors to beating high m+ timers. Another flawed argument from you.

But hey, who am I to speak. You have successfully ran a +12 timer, lol'd.

No, my core point was that the gameplay is still spammy, hurried and rush-focused. The speed is irrelevant. Even in my higher rated runs we still rarely have time to stop and recover as a timer system demands you do so. My gripe with M+ is the fact that it can not only be spammed - and for that reason, it can't be as rewarding as it should be given the effort. In my eyes they made a huge mistake that would be easily fixed, and that's to make each specific dungeon/number (ie maw +4) an independent lockout, and increase the rewards of higher ranks further considering the ilvl reward for things like +8-15 are unreasonably low compared to the amount of effort you have to put in to complete them, with issues rising up like the last boss of CoS "enraging" (too many illusions, leading to the unavoidable aoe damage becoming absolutely ridiculous) at a point where no one of that actual ilvl could complete it before wiping. There are a ton of flaws with M+ being the way it is, but I think the worst one is the lack of a lockout of any sort.

If you mean AoE stuns then no shit they're required, I mean actual on-pull CC. I think the only pull I see it used on are the two in HoV that are downright wacky if you don't. But please continue with the pointless semantics, bickering and time wasting arguing on an internet forum about the opinions of others.

This isn't an argument to begin with because you're addressing shit I never even really implied unless you're laser-focusing on the gripe about combat duration. I'm certainly very very aware that some trash pulls can even take upwards of 30s-1min at +8 and above, but the timer is still there dictating your speed. The timer feels like another way Blizzard's encouraging spammy, rushy gameplay that I personally can't stand.
And "longer combat" point is directed towards +2 to +6 runs because those are the most sensible way to farm for shit like gear and legendaries, and as such are easily over 90% (I'm being kind here as I'm sure it's much, much higher than that) of the runs people do. Ask anyone who regularly farms M+, past I'd say +6 you'd rather get more chests for chances at titanforged than try for higher ranks, and that's why the timer is ridiculous.

[Deztru]

It gives and endless supply of Artifact Power, for raiders this creates a horrible situation where:

A) You have the time and will to invest, you will be ahead of your peer and from personal experience you will look at others as if they're slacking
B) You have the time but not the will to mindleslly grind Maw of Souls and Darkheart Thicket over and over again, leaving you feeling bad or even apathic for not wasting your life for minor upgrades
C) You don't have the time, you fall behind and can't do anything about it.

The majority of even hardcore raiders fall to the slots B and C.

Never before has there been an endless grind for raiding rewards and because of that it is a bad system. On top of all this it was supposed to replace the challenge mode system which so far has not been the case.

The system is great, not having any limits is bad.

[Deleted]

yes, the m+ system is a lot better and more fun if you have friends, but so are a lot of other systems in this game and that's okay.

[Deleted]

I would like them to be 5-9 scalated. This way you can organice a 9 and if one leaves you can continue without big problem. Also It would open a progression path for the people between 5(m+) and 10(raid). In my guild We are long time players who are playing casual now, and sometimes we are 5, sometimes we are 6-7, so Its a pity we can't go all and we must mount 2 pugs. And the main reason why they returned to the game apart from lore is the possibility of making an small roster without the complications of a raid and being challenging.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I'm at the point where I simply can't stand to see these dungeons anymore..