HPal legendaries are ridiculous

[Rorschachs]

And we should speak up more about it on bnet forums. I don't even think the devs realize it; but Ilterendi and Obsidian Stone Spaulders (to some extent) are too strong and mandatory if you want to be competitive. There are very very few top parses of Hpaladins without one of these two legendaries and that has to be a problem right?

[Tydan]

And we should speak up more about it on bnet forums. I don't even think the devs realize it; but Ilterendi and Obsidian Stone Spaulders (to some extent) are too strong and mandatory if you want to be competitive. There are very very few top parses of Hpaladins without one of these two legendaries and that has to be a problem right?

This is the same with most legendaries, i have 2 on my fury, both crap. Yet if i had the ring i would see circa 100k dps increase in EN HC. The system is a mess.

[dnicks17]

That's basically legendaries for every class and spec in a nutshell.

[Gilthresa]

The shoulders aren't that great, the ring is awesome but they certainly aren't mandatory if you want to be conpetitive... maybe if your aiming for top world ranks yeah but otherwise not.

[Dorkman]

The shoulders aren't that great, the ring is awesome but they certainly aren't mandatory if you want to be conpetitive... maybe if your aiming for top world ranks yeah but otherwise not.

nobody wants to compete for world 1000+ ranks, so yes, that's the point being made

[Gilthresa]

nobody wants to compete for world 1000+ ranks, so yes, that's the point being made

Because healing ranks have meant so much in the past. They don't mean shit because there are so many other factors not including the legendaries that can skew healing ranks (how many healers you use, how fast your dps kill the boss, are you cheesing to create more damage for better ranks)

To 90% of players ranks have never meant anything and never will. I know for a fact I can play my class well and just because I can't push past a certain percentile doesn't automatically mean it's because of a legendary because I know full well how healing ranks are actually obtained

[Deleted]

Which makes them no different from most spec-legendaries.

It's just the system and how bad it is.
Change all legendaries into utility ones, with minor to no damage/healing involved and be done with it-

[Deleted]

There's competitive and then there's competitive. There's way too many variables involved in ranking as a healer compared to a DPS. While legendaries are one of those variables other things have much more impact. Assuming 2 players playing basically the same character whether or not the other healers are good, the number of healers, fight length, other raid members usage of personal cooldowns, number of people getting hit by avoidable damage, number of people cheesing abilities(i.e. solo soaking things with bubble), the composition of the raid(particularly armor type where a lot of the damage is physical,number of meele assuming beacon of lightbringer,everyone else actually being properly stacked where applicable) have far more impact than the legendaries do.

On Ursoc the shoulders seem to be a ~4% hps increase. I can't comment on the ring as i'm in no way good enough to do the maths but assuming it's more or less in the same place as the shoulders it still will be offset by all the other variables. For example the top Ursoc parse has 916k HPS with none of the 2 legendaries. The second highest is 755k with the ring. Both groups are 2 healing it and there's a 18s difference in fight length.

While they should get rid of legendaries that affect performance in a major way for everyone healing ranks never meant all that much due to all the cheesing that can be done. When talking about top ranks legendaries do play a role but it's far from ridiculous. Primarily how hard you cheese has a lot more impact than anything else.

[Dorkman]

Because healing ranks have meant so much in the past. They don't mean shit because there are so many other factors not including the legendaries that can skew healing ranks (how many healers you use, how fast your dps kill the boss, are you cheesing to create more damage for better ranks)

To 90% of players ranks have never meant anything and never will. I know for a fact I can play my class well and just because I can't push past a certain percentile doesn't automatically mean it's because of a legendary because I know full well how healing ranks are actually obtained

"There are very very few top parses of Hpaladins without one of these two legendaries and that has to be a problem right?"

talking about parses in op. regardless of whether you can compete in guild, or that it is the same for every class and legendary rng, the point remains the same.

[Hawg]

I'm finding that the better my gear gets, which is happening at the same time that my raid team is also getting better, the less hps I am doing and more dps I'm doing. That's because the fights are getting shorter, the tanks are better equipped, people know the mechanics better, and there is simply less damage to heal.

In logs however my hps at "oh shit" moments has definitakey improved.

This means my rankings are not as high as they used to be.

That doesn't mean the rankings are completely useless, they will approach being an apples to apples comparison again once the next raid goes live. But until then they don't mean a whole lot.

[Waltzinblack]

I've been getting 99% ranks on the regs without a decent legendary (Prydaz and Tyr's Hand of Faith) which goes to show you that it is not necessary to have a BiS legendary to remain competitive.

...but I got the ring 2 days ago so I'm still really happy.

[Balinos]

For ret, having the ring and cape is the best. The others, not so much. It is the same with all the oranges man.

[DistortionSleep]

Which makes them no different from most spec-legendaries.

It's just the system and how bad it is.
Change all legendaries into utility ones, with minor to no damage/healing involved and be done with it-

Yeah let's make the game more homogenized then it already is. The legendary system is fine. Its just a few months into the expansion and you guys want all the bis ones, which isn't realistic.

[Azsune]

I have Obsidian Stone Spaulders and Aggramar's Stride. You say that to be competitive you need the shoulders and ring, but in reality the shoulders make up on an average fight about 3-5% of my healing.

One place they are awesome is mythic plus. Overflowing week I feel like they actually break the mechanic. Without them I get insane overflows when I crit for a lot on with beacon of virtue across the whole group. But when I put them on I do a 2 mil holy shock on myself to get the most use of my shoulders a person in my group missing 200k health gets no overflowing. Do the same thing without the shoulders he now has 1.5 mil overflowing. Or even with beacon of the light bringer when you sac the tank you are reducing his damage taken and when you heal yourself hes getting 70% of the heal. With the bracer change next update that sounds like I will replace my boots with them (I would change them now but my boots provide me with more overall stats then bracers due to not having good boot replacement).

For raid healing I feel that the legendaries are a bit under whelming. Where they make the biggest difference is when you are in mythic plus.

[netherflame]

Because healing ranks have meant so much in the past. They don't mean shit because there are so many other factors not including the legendaries that can skew healing ranks (how many healers you use, how fast your dps kill the boss, are you cheesing to create more damage for better ranks)

To 90% of players ranks have never meant anything and never will. I know for a fact I can play my class well and just because I can't push past a certain percentile doesn't automatically mean it's because of a legendary because I know full well how healing ranks are actually obtained

This.

If the boss is on the ground and we are collecting purples then your rank is pretty much irrelevant IMO. Ranks are just a silly way to compare fights that probably were not identical therefore the comparison is skewed one way or another.

[Lestrang]

And the belt @7.1.5 guys? I mean if the shoulders are not that much healing (Idk, 3-8% of healing without doing shit is alot imo) and the ring is just okayish, that belt is major healing(and in a way, utility) improvement, it makes our wings so strong.. I am pretty sure with something like AoS and this improved wings you will see completely different numbers in the logs than the one you see right now and as much as people will say logs don't matter. Being able to produce such big numbers is still indicative of something. Many thing that are barely solo-able with our current cds will be pie. So if that is not huge advantage rng based then i dont know what is.

[GreenJesus]

I have Obsidian Stone Spaulders and Aggramar's Stride. You say that to be competitive you need the shoulders and ring, but in reality the shoulders make up on an average fight about 3-5% of my healing.

One place they are awesome is mythic plus. Overflowing week I feel like they actually break the mechanic. Without them I get insane overflows when I crit for a lot on with beacon of virtue across the whole group. But when I put them on I do a 2 mil holy shock on myself to get the most use of my shoulders a person in my group missing 200k health gets no overflowing. Do the same thing without the shoulders he now has 1.5 mil overflowing. Or even with beacon of the light bringer when you sac the tank you are reducing his damage taken and when you heal yourself hes getting 70% of the heal. With the bracer change next update that sounds like I will replace my boots with them (I would change them now but my boots provide me with more overall stats then bracers due to not having good boot replacement).

For raid healing I feel that the legendaries are a bit under whelming. Where they make the biggest difference is when you are in mythic plus.

5% of my healing from a passive effect I woudn't have had if I got a different legendary isn't anything to sneeze at. That is huge. My movement speed boots (give nothing since I have 2% haste) don't contribute anything to my healing. My LoH legendary doesn't contribute anything either since you can usually only use LoH once per fight anyway.

[Deleted]

Yeah let's make the game more homogenized then it already is. The legendary system is fine. Its just a few months into the expansion and you guys want all the bis ones, which isn't realistic.

I used to think the same; but then i looted the 3rd useless legendairy in a row, while the other ret-pally in the guild got usefull ones.
The system as is, is ok as a retention tool, and for casuals... but it's just stupid for mythic raiding.

On the other hand one of mine is becomming usefull in 7.1.5,... but that is simply "too late" for me... as the entire EN+ToV "tier" turned out to be a "wait for the next tier where you might be slightly more competive".

[Rorschachs]

The latest ptr patch confirms my original post, they don't even realize that healer legendaries have balance issues...

[Hawg]

The latest ptr patch confirms my original post, they don't even realize that healer legendaries have balance issues...

---snip---

remember this day, i was wrong