New build is f*cking A!

[Deleted]

I like how you say that Sicklikeme is number 1 ranked dh in the world, hes not ranked 1 on all bosses, not even close mate and no hes not the best DH in the world, but yes hes a good player Btw could you please link your logs? I would like to see your logs, I'm not here to be rude or anything, just wish to see em and just wanted to tell that Fragnance is not the best DH in the world, hes been the best player in the world with other classes tho, but not as DH atm :P

Hi! Sorry was responding to a rather rude person since he randomly decided to insult me for no reason :L. Sicklikeme however is ranked number 1 in Emerald Nightmare Mythic last time I checked, (2 hours ago) and since the original guy was stating that top dh's in the top guilds were saying that the current ptr build was a dps loss (which includes sicklikeme) I was questioning that since Method and sicklikeme's dh actually gave their opinion on stream and liked the newest build for the demon hunters. They hated the last build tho, but everyone did. Sicklikeme isn't number one ranked in ToV, that's true, tho I never stated him being top on every boss, I only stated him to be top in the EN mythic raid, which was generalized for all the bosses within that raid. Sinc mister rude guy randomly claimed for me to be a dh that had sub optimal momentum or whatever he was trying to say, I told him to point out on any of my logs where I'd have shit momentum uptime, and that he could include his uptime since he's trying to be superior then everyone else in this thread. Hope that cleared some confusion ^^

Logs and armory are linked on original post

[High Marshal Sigismund]

paying attention to where you fel rush and vengeful retreat, while trying to maximize your momentum uptime AND trying to avoid boss mechanics.

Sounds like a personal issue.

[Zasriel]

If we go Momentum instead of Nemesis, do you use Felblade inside of Momentum?

[jayinjersey]

So here is the question

If the "harder" talent is supposed to yield better results....the question becomes "how much better?"

We know for a fact Blizzard flat out HATES the Shadow: Decent into Madness vs no Madness disparity...so we know it won't be THAT great a difference.

But how much is "fair"? 2%...3%...more?

[Deleted]

If we go Momentum instead of Nemesis, do you use Felblade inside of Momentum?

Use it on cooldown basically, in or out momentum it doesn't matter. It's really sweet to VR and felblade back though. But you'll mainly wanna use it on cd, what I generally do is fel rush sideways, then felblade to 'cancel' the fel rush and turn like 90 degrees facing the boss once more, if you know what I mean. But you don't wanna sit on felblade just to use it within momentum, you can waste procs like this and it isn't neccesary, you wanna cast as many chaos strikes as possible within momentum, felblade gives you the fury for that, and whilst you're casting chaos strike within the momentum window felblade might proc again. Just make sure you don't use it if It's gonna overcap your fury.

Tl;dr, cast it whenever It's available, using it in momentum might make it deal 20% damage but it costs you one global cd which could of been used for chaos strike/annihilation, which hits way harder ad will benefit from 20% increased damage a lot more.

[Raiju]

So here is the question

If the "harder" talent is supposed to yield better results....the question becomes "how much better?"

We know for a fact Blizzard flat out HATES the Shadow: Decent into Madness vs no Madness disparity...so we know it won't be THAT great a difference.

But how much is "fair"? 2%...3%...more?

I'd assume within 5% is reasonable, 10% at a stretch.

[Yhcti]

the fragnance fanboying is fine but yeah, he's not the best DH in the world. Found it funny as I was speaking to a guy in Serenity awhile ago and he did mention that not everyone would play DH like Frag (in a "he's probably the best" kind of way) had to laugh a little. He's very good at playing ANY class, but he's by no means the best ^^

On a brighter note. I don't care which talent is which, DH is fun, and it'll stay fun with either talent setup. I won't pick Nemesis just because I don't raid, so for M+ I'm much better off with momentum or even fel eruption (hilarious for world content)

[Deleted]

No, this was stated by blizzard. More difficult talents should yield higher dps.
@Chisa using examples of using third party software to break ToS is not an argument for what isn't more difficult. If you are literally CHEATING to avoid the increased difficulty, you can't say it's not more difficult.

Im not sure it is cheating. The dude is streaming, the dude raids for method. The dude is probably well known, yet he macros it to maximize dps ....so theres that. all you need is a razer keyboard afaik

[Raiju]

Im not sure it is cheating. The dude is streaming, the dude raids for method. The dude is probably well known, yet he macros it to maximize dps ....so theres that. all you need is a razer keyboard afaik

Yes, and it's against ToS. So is that $$ boosting most people in the top guilds do and advertise on their streams too.

[jayinjersey]

I'd assume within 5% is reasonable, 10% at a stretch.

I could get 100% behind 5%.

So if you are a cutting edge player that 5% will mean a lot even if it means more work...but for the vast majority of us it will be playstyle choice.

Yup...I'd sign that petition and be OK with casuals doing a bit less (not OMG my spec sucks less) DPS than hardcores.

If best was 400k less than best would be 380k...

[Deleted]

Use it on cooldown basically, in or out momentum it doesn't matter.

I think it does. Spamming it results in clutter.
Felblade has to follow a priority, from my experience.

Inside Momentum, the priority goes as follow:
>Fury of the Illidari
>Annihil
>Throw Glaive (with Bloodlet)
>Eye Beam
>Chaos Strike

So basically: Felblade if you're in need of Fury, so prior to a Momentum window to cover the globals or inside it if you need some more resources.

[Vetement]

Shouldn't the new PTR build drop today? The one they said would have the biggest character tuning.

[Deleted]

I think it does. Spamming it results in clutter.
Felblade has to follow a priority, from my experience.

Inside Momentum, the priority goes as follow:
>Fury of the Illidari
>Annihil
>Throw Glaive (with Bloodlet)
>Eye Beam
>Chaos Strike

So basically: Felblade if you're in need of Fury, so prior to a Momentum window to cover the globals or inside it if you need some more resources.

Kinda explained that after the first sentence? ^^ Also considering its the new build we're talking about, Fury comes first, then annihilation, then chaos strike (not eye beam.) Your momentum won't even benefit the entire cast unless you use it at the very start of momentum, also it denies you chaos strike refunds, felblade procs which all would be a dps increase over eye beam on st on that point. Especially after the chaos strike buff and with the chaos cleave talent, even first blood would b higher n priority due to the low fury cost and usually the ability to use 2x chaos strike and a blade dance within the momentum window, if specced for chaos cleave then you'll be able to atleast weave in 3 chaos strikes (which could refund depending on crit) all of this is a dps increase over eye beam at that point.

Most theorycrafters (including wordup) suggest you to use it on cooldown and preferably right before using momentum, tho fel rushing and using felblade immediately is also really good and will provide you garanteed fury for a chaos strike, optimally you'll want to get 2 in then. As previously mentioned in the tl;dr, don't keep it for momentum, use it on cooldown and if it isn't gonna fury cap you so you can gain momentum afterwards and spend all the fury.

[Deleted]

Shouldn't the new PTR build drop today? The one they said would have the biggest character tuning.

Where did you hear that?

[Deleted]

Kinda explained that after the first sentence? ^^ Also considering its the new build we're talking about, Fury comes first, then annihilation, then chaos strike (not eye beam.) Your momentum won't even benefit the entire cast unless you use it at the very start of momentum, also it denies you chaos strike refunds, felblade procs which all would be a dps increase over eye beam on st on that point. Especially after the chaos strike buff and with the chaos cleave talent, even first blood would b higher n priority due to the low fury cost and usually the ability to use 2x chaos strike and a blade dance within the momentum window, if specced for chaos cleave then you'll be able to atleast weave in 3 chaos strikes (which could refund depending on crit) all of this is a dps increase over eye beam at that point.

Most theorycrafters (including wordup) suggest you to use it on cooldown and preferably right before using momentum, tho fel rushing and using felblade immediately is also really good and will provide you garanteed fury for a chaos strike, optimally you'll want to get 2 in then. As previously mentioned in the tl;dr, don't keep it for momentum, use it on cooldown and if it isn't gonna fury cap you so you can gain momentum afterwards and spend all the fury.

On situations where the boss is a small box (humanoids and that) you'll use fel rush > momentum to not lose melee uptime, so you'll want to sync momentum with having fel blade out of cd.

On bosses where your momentum doesn't geet you off melee, you only want to fel blade to get more fury, so you'll wait to use your fel rush after having 50 or more fury. If your felblade resets inside momentum but you can also chaos strike, or have bloodlet talented, you won't be using felblade unless you get fury starved.

At least I think it'll go that way.

[Deleted]

On situations where the boss is a small box (humanoids and that) you'll use fel rush > momentum to not lose melee uptime, so you'll want to sync momentum with having fel blade out of cd.

On bosses where your momentum doesn't geet you off melee, you only want to fel blade to get more fury, so you'll wait to use your fel rush after having 50 or more fury. If your felblade resets inside momentum but you can also chaos strike, or have bloodlet talented, you won't be using felblade unless you get fury starved.

At least I think it'll go that way.

Talking about the 7.1.5 build where most or even close to none will be using bloodlet ^^ assuming we're talking about EN, ToV and Nighthold content you'll have a hard time finding a small hitbox boss. If you're doing everything right you should have either a fel rush or a vr ready when felblade comes up, tho if you fel rush side way, strafe a bit out of melee and then fel rush back in, etc you should never be out of melee range after a fr so you wouldn't need felblade to cover up that positioning mistake and be able to utilise the full momentum window. FR next patch without fel mastery won't be as much on cd as it is now since you'll be getting fury from your felblade anyway. In general you will have fr and felblade up at the same time if you're managing fury well to momentum, tho you should aim to either vr and then feblade or felblade first so you can maximize dps within momentum. Reason why I'm saying this is because your felblade can proc while you're waiting for the fel rush whilst sitting on your previously unused felblade, this would be 30 free fury wasted. I generally already fr at 30 fury because I know I'll have fury afterwards (usually too much fury on the ptr with the amount of times felblade can proc) but that's just me, I'd say use felblade at your own discretion but generally you shouldn't wrap your brain around it.

[Fragnance]

the fragnance fanboying is fine but yeah, he's not the best DH in the world. Found it funny as I was speaking to a guy in Serenity awhile ago and he did mention that not everyone would play DH like Frag (in a "he's probably the best" kind of way) had to laugh a little. He's very good at playing ANY class, but he's by no means the best ^^

On a brighter note. I don't care which talent is which, DH is fun, and it'll stay fun with either talent setup. I won't pick Nemesis just because I don't raid, so for M+ I'm much better off with momentum or even fel eruption (hilarious for world content)

Don't think you're qualified as a person to judge a players skill at a certain class bud xx

[Deleted]

Don't think you're qualified as a person to judge a players skill at a certain class bud xx

I guess he didnt see that coming! xD

[Yhcti]

Don't think you're qualified as a person to judge a players skill at a certain class bud xx

Cheer up buttercup, I'm not judging, just throwing out my opinion I haven't seen you parse top 5 yet in WoD, though I have my fnigers crossed for you in Nighthold (stream sub!), I was going purely based on numbers, though I've noticed Method/Serenity never actually parse #1 on rankings... maybe due to fight strategies I suppose.

I don't raid any more.. I got a few #1 in Cata on my Warlock when I raided in Havoc on US realms, but have found IRL far more rewarding than raiding in WoW :P

[jayinjersey]

but have found IRL far more rewarding than raiding in WoW :P

Aww...you must still be young

Wait 15 years and you'll be dying for wow raiding to take you away for a few hours