7.1.5 PTR Notes Changes for DPS DKs

[Deleted]

i really think it depends, the RNG on wounds forces you to be constantly on your toes, which after playing this class for 8 years is nice, less RNG would put me to sleep, but im also not playing an RNG heavy build (mastery/CS mythical unicorn here), but if you're playing the standard castigator with the bracers, definitely way too much RNG between castigator, bracers, and festering strike.

so blizz's response is to nerf apocalypse, a spell with no RNG(wtf), this affects CS/UF playstyles more negatively than castigator playstyles. the better decision IMO would be to remove castigator all together, its too much RNG when combined with FS and bracers, making it baseline would dump unneeded RNG on CS and UF builds. I would replace it with something like "every time a spell crits, its overall damage is increased by AP*Crit%", this gives crit a stat priority closer to mastery for CS and haste for UF without adding way too much RNG.

i agree with cast being gone, still i feel bloodtap would make rp more valueble, id aslo like buff to out dot in wod a 15 np did 17k or so dmg(not 100%sure) evry 2sec and current does like 20k dmg evry 2sec.

[PerryTP]

Baddok very likely Army CD reduction will be in the form of either a new trait or new golden trait in 7.2 when they add more. If you think about what else they could possibly add for us that fits perfectly.

Quick question. How does Arbiter feel compared to Soul Reaper on the PTR?

[Choot]

As it stands, I dont see Frost beating Unholy on anything other than fights you can gimmic SF.

If frost doesnt get any treatment, they'll probably be in the same boat Unholy is atm (Maybe not quite as far back, but still on the lower end of the specs)

What happened to Breath of Sindragosa? Pipe dream because it needs 2 specific legendaries? Or were we not supposed to talk about it.

[Kronik85]

if you spec into pestilent pustules, you FS right after Apoc to add wounds right back to the target, spend 1 maybe 2 gcds on RP dump and then consume wounds with SS

this change lets you go right into SS dump after Apoc, but doesn't allow a gap for RP spending, damage output is more important than damage fluidity, apoc provides a lot of fire and forget damage for a single gcd, something we need when managing 3 resource pools

You do what your resources tell you to do, that's how you play Unholy. You don't need to spend RP at all unless you have 3 runes on CD.

[Nemesquish]

Are you talking about on the PTR or Live at the moment? I'm curious because from what I've been seeing neither spec will be using the same optimal spec that's current on live?

Both specs look like they are going to have some interesting shake ups.

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I think they wanted to keep the relative strength of Apocalypse the same, but bring up AOTD, least that's my guess.

That would be with live specs, Reallly the only 2 ST fights atm are Gaurm and Ursoc, but Frost is ahead of Unholy due to the adds on Ursoc, If you check 95% Unholy and Frost as basically the same on Gaurm. The only strong thing about Frost is you dont have legionaries for it to be solid, since theyre all pretty below average (Compared to other classes, which after the most recent tuning pass, might have been a good thing)

[Cyanotical]

You do what your resources tell you to do, that's how you play Unholy. You don't need to spend RP at all unless you have 3 runes on CD.

im not sure i agree with this, you react to RNG and play accordingly, but effective resource use is critical, you shouldn't be stopping to RP dump like old days, but ignoring it unless you have 3 runes on CD isn't good either. UH damage is very cyclic, you need to manage resources effectively and play the peaks in your damage cycle to your advantage. Rules of thumb like that lock you into situations where you could have done better by not following it but have already passed the point of recovering, resulting in a net loss of actual damage done relative to your total possible damage.

[Nemesquish]

What happened to Breath of Sindragosa? Pipe dream because it needs 2 specific legendaries? Or were we not supposed to talk about it.

It could work, and I dont really thing you HAVE to have the ring to do it, Since as of now, GA/Oblit are pretty low end dps increases, so it would still be a thing without.

[Baddok21]

I dont know if anyone else feels this way

but i love the mini game that momento provides when you get a crit/mastery proc as unholy, for those 8 second you almost drop w/e rational priority you should be doing and just try and burst/apply as many wounds as possible.

Frost has a somewhat similar thing with counterweight but even then its a planned proc around a old war/prolonged potion.

[Kronik85]

im not sure i agree with this, you react to RNG and play accordingly, but effective resource use is critical, you shouldn't be stopping to RP dump like old days, but ignoring it unless you have 3 runes on CD isn't good either. UH damage is very cyclic, you need to manage resources effectively and play the peaks in your damage cycle to your advantage. Rules of thumb like that lock you into situations where you could have done better by not following it but have already passed the point of recovering, resulting in a net loss of actual damage done relative to your total possible damage.

Rather than word salading me do you actually want to slot in some actual information into this post as to when you might want to spend RP over using a Rune in a situation where you are resource capped?

[Acidbaron]

Word salading, you learn something new on mmo-c every day.

People on PTR seem to be content looking at discord, arbiter/gargoyle have gotten a noticeable buff, army from apoc seem to be functionally also better with no loss of debuffs or swings (damage) with less ghouls.

So minus the build in handicap of target swapping and movement we seem to be on a good track for unholy.

[Casterbridge]

How is the UH ghoul now with the shadow damage change? Any word on that from the PTR? Curious if I can avoid taking the abomination and not feel to guilty about it. Or was the shadow damage only for single target?

[DagrDK]

As it stands, I dont see Frost beating Unholy on anything other than fights you can gimmic SF.

If frost doesnt get any treatment, they'll probably be in the same boat Unholy is atm (Maybe not quite as far back, but still on the lower end of the specs)

I feel like this is the standing thought. Unholy is good >>> buff Frost to be better. Frost is now better >>> Buff Unholy back to the top.

I've said it before, I personally don't care which one we use. I'm probably going to be switching loot spec back to Unholy in hopes of the bracers or shoulders.

Of course, this is all pending any further Frost changes. I hate this game.

[Kendros]

How is the UH ghoul now with the shadow damage change? Any word on that from the PTR? Curious if I can avoid taking the abomination and not feel to guilty about it. Or was the shadow damage only for single target?

The abomination also hits for shadow damage and only when the ghoul/abom is transformed

[Cyanotical]

Rather than word salading me do you actually want to slot in some actual information into this post as to when you might want to spend RP over using a Rune in a situation where you are resource capped?

actually im kinda torn on this, on one hand, i should admonish you for not taking a hypothetical thinking approach to analytical situations when discussing damage theory and instead asking for a solution to a situation where a majority of required variables have remained undefined, but on the other hand, calling you a scrub and saying l2play doesn't do much either if you simply don't know. The difficulty here is trying to put 8 years of learned knowledge into a paragraph for someone who has a problem with big words while still being specific enough in wording that misunderstandings don't happen. so, here goes: stick the pointy end of your sword in the boss, when you can't do this anymore, throw the green skull at it.

spending RP is a balance of rune regen and damage output. if you know you will need a bunch of runes in a moment you will probably want to spend RP on 1 or 2 GCDs to kick in RC in time for your burst. This doesn't mean RP dump, and it doesn't even mean DC, if you're in melee and not full health, use DS instead. but if you are at full health, DC does more damage per RP spent. however, DC does less damage per GCD than SS/CS+FW, so now look at what the remaining cooldown time is on your runes, will the runes you need 3 GCDs from now be available in time? or do you need to speed that up with a DC. a damage loss taken by using DC over a rune now can translate to a damage gain 3 GCDs from now if you have all runes available for a well timed damage dump.

[Casterbridge]

The abomination also hits for shadow damage and only when the ghoul/abom is transformed

Well dang it thought the change was to the ghoul a passive boost since originally they said that the abomination wouldn't end up being a dps gain, just a utility one.

[Kendros]

Well dang it thought the change was to the ghoul a passive boost since originally they said that the abomination wouldn't end up being a dps gain, just a utility one.

Well for single target its not a dps loss, it can only be a dps gain for trash or aoe fights

[Casterbridge]

Well for single target its not a dps loss, it can only be a dps gain for trash or aoe fights

Which is sadly quite a few fights lol.

Yeah I know, I just wish they would update/change that ugly blob thing, or give us another choice.

[Baddok21]

Which is sadly quite a few fights lol.

Yeah I know, I just wish they would update/change that ugly blob thing, or give us another choice.

The Undead model update is confirmed for 7.2

I expect they will give us glyphs specifically to enjoy all the new undead models when that is done. for the time being i simply consider it a "hang in there" kinda deal

PS: every single undead model created is being updated, so we might get glyphs for Lichs, ghosts, skeletal warriors/mages/archers/flayers etc etc just imgaine making "all will serve" a skeletal mage instead of archer with updated models

[DagrDK]

The Undead model update is confirmed for 7.2

I expect they will give us glyphs specifically to enjoy all the new undead models when that is done. for the time being i simply consider it a "hang in there" kinda deal

PS: every single undead model created is being updated, so we might get glyphs for Lichs, ghosts, skeletal warriors/mages/archers/flayers etc etc just imgaine making "all will serve" a skeletal mage instead of archer with updated models

Sold. Back to Unholy!

[Nemesquish]

I feel like this is the standing thought. Unholy is good >>> buff Frost to be better. Frost is now better >>> Buff Unholy back to the top.

I've said it before, I personally don't care which one we use. I'm probably going to be switching loot spec back to Unholy in hopes of the bracers or shoulders.

Of course, this is all pending any further Frost changes. I hate this game.

Right, One has to be better obviously, but It hasnt been Frost in over 2 years, after a month of being stronger its about to get swapped again.