We need more account-wide things.

[SirCowdog]

this is where you are wrong, nothing change if you play only one character.
i play 5 hours, i get 10 progress token. you play 5 hours, you get 10 progress token.
our idea is that it should not matter what character were you using when you get those 10 token.
.

In which case the game should go all the way and switch to a system like FFXIV uses. Or remove classes entirely and switch to some kind of skill-based or talent-based system of advancement where the progress becomes about expanding the diversity of your character.

I'm not against making more things account wide. But like I said, it needs to be done carefully to avoid ruining the dynamic of the game.

[Deleted]

PvP should be acc-wide also arena rating etc. PvP so unbalanced when u play main class which is bad in PvP (Hunter for example) you cant get to top tier. why should you be punished for playing what you want.

[Allenschezar]

The only thing i would want to be account wide right now is AK so i can keep up with the twinks that i just lvled to 110. But since that somewhat comes true with these books you can buy i'm happy more or less.

[saeros]

In which case the game should go all the way and switch to a system like FFXIV uses. Or remove classes entirely and switch to some kind of skill-based or talent-based system of advancement where the progress becomes about expanding the diversity of your character.

I'm not against making more things account wide. But like I said, it needs to be done carefully to avoid ruining the dynamic of the game.

it looks like we agree on the direction but not on the magnitude of the errors they could make, to me it is a simple decision, to you there are more tricky aspect to considered. maybe i'm too optimistic

btw i don't like talking about different games because i know the answer usually is "ur dur then go play it", but i think ffxiv """"alt"""" system is better, as it allows easy class change, so there is more variety.
but at the same time i know it is too extreme for wow, we don't even have all race/class combos available.

[SirBeef]

Specifically, the Honour grind and the Illidan and Balance of Power questchains.

No. I think if anything getting maxed on rep, should give you a buff to your alts rep gain. Getting prestige in PvP should increase your honor rate gain a bit for alts. Not everyone should be able to have everything unless they put in the time to get everything. Every character should not have everything unless the same is done, mostly.

[Kazgrel]

Reputation would be nice.

I've pretty much relegated this as a requirement for me to ever play WoW again. Don't care to dump a toon who has pretty much every rep in the game prior to Legion at exalted, but I also don't care to play an always-underperforming class in a game (in this case, my old Shaman main, specifically ele spec).

[SirCowdog]

I think the fun part about having an alt is that it gives you a chance to see what it's like to overcome challenging content in a totally different way. I don't think it's interesting to go through the story etc. again - I've seen it all before. So I'd say that the alt leveling process should basically involve beating content that's somewhat challenging for your level and gradually building up to current content. Time gates when you're behind already are pretty frustrating because you're left behind with nothing to do to catch up. With current content it's fine because everyone's in the same boat and it creates pacing.

But what about the order hall story? I know it's pretty thin right now, but it's possible that Blizzard could flesh it out more in the future. I also think leveling as a new class gives a player time to grow accustomed to new abilities and get a real feel for the class. But maybe that's just me. I don't agree with the time-locked content, however, especially on alts. Once a main has achieved something the first time, any new characters on an account should be able to progress without the time-gates.

it looks like we agree on the direction but not on the magnitude of the errors they could make, to me it is a simple decision, to you there are more tricky aspect to considered. maybe i'm too optimistic

btw i don't like talking about different games because i know the answer usually is "ur dur then go play it", but i think ffxiv """"alt"""" system is better, as it allows easy class change, so there is more variety.
but at the same time i know it is too extreme for wow, we don't even have all race/class combos available.

I've played so many different games over the years that it's difficult for me to NOT reference them. It gives a level of perspective that most gamers simply don't have. The only time I will tell someone to go play another game is when the other game is what they're describing to me that they want. I like FFXIV's job system a hell of a lot better than WoW's class system, but FFXIV gameplay is trash compared to WoW, and both are much weaker than GW2's gameplay. But FFXIV's story absolutely wrecks everyone else, while no other game has raids or dungeons anywhere within a country mile of WoW.

WoW has its good points, and its bad points. It's entirely possible to like a game while still being critical of it. Most people can't handle that concept, unfortunately.

[Lane]

People have started to treat alts as their mains alter egos, in essence demanding that alts are never more than 1-2 weeks behind their mains. I'm not sure if this is a lingering psychological idea from MoP and WoD, but I can assume as such. Especially since you could have your alts ready for heroic HFC in 36 hours played in 6.2. Such a joke.

It's been that way since WotLK. All of my alts were raid ready within about a week of running heroics after hitting 80.

It's a tricky situation. WoW is a progress-based game. If we take AP and make it account wide, in many ways alts have lost a lot of their purpose. You run them through story quests that you've already done on your main. You might get some use out of having a character that can perform a role your main can't, such as tank or healer. And gearing up is already stupidly easy in Legion. All that leaves is progress in reputations or the time-gated quests(Illidan).

My only issue with farming AP on alts is that without AK it feels futile. There is such a huge discrepancy between AK3 (90%) and AK20 (9000%) it's a deterrent to bother doing anything for AP on an alt. The rewards don't feel rewarding. The missions feel like a waste of resources, WQs feel like a waste of time and effort, etc. However, I still believe AP should've been pooled per character, I've always thought the fact that it's per weapon/spec is ridiculous.

Though, if I'm going to pick a battle it's going to be reputation. I am sick and tired of re-grinding reputations ad nauseam on alts. Even just the basic ones like Stormwind/Orgrimmar let alone anything in current content. It's never nor will it ever be fun, in fact, aside from Rift I don't believe I've played another MMO that uses a reputation system, which is probably why it's such a glaring pain in the ass in WoW. It feels archaic and arbitrary.

[Blayze]

I think the (German?) guy at Blizzcon said it best.

"We want to play alts, not do chores on alts."

[MoanaLisa]

I'll be old-school about this but I think there needs to be less account-wide things. I have nothing at all against alts but I'm not a fan of configuring a lot of stuff in the game just to accommodate players who want to have half-a-dozen or more alts.

[Lane]

It's always funny to me when people say "mains mean something". What do they mean, to you or anyone else? I could quit my technical main tomorrow and not be heartbroken over it (aside from the arduous task of catching up on someone else), I basically do that at least twice every expansion anyway because no one class is fun to play consistently. Nobody knows when I'm on an alt that it's an alt and, unless I suck at what I'm doing, I'm going to assume that nobody cares either.

I think that alt-players are having to fight this expansion to get their playstyle recognized as being as legitimate as anything else. I've no issue admitting alts are my content and have been since I started playing in vanilla. Were it not for them I'd easily be unsubbed longer than subbed if not having quit altogether.

[SirCowdog]

I'll be old-school about this but I think there needs to be less account-wide things. I have nothing at all against alts but I'm not a fan of configuring a lot of stuff in the game just to accommodate players who want to have half-a-dozen or more alts.

The problem with that is that Blizzard has created a game with 12 "classes" in Legion, each with 3 sub classes(except for DH). For some reason rep is shared between the sub-classes but not main classes. AP is not only main class specific, but sub-class specific. Why? If Blizzard wants you to invest in one main class(as it appears due to all the heavy time investment required for anything in Legion), what's the purpose of keeping sub-classes separated by AP? And if the point is to force players to invest even further into only a single sub-class, then why are rep and achievements and such shared across the main class, and not also broken up?

If people want to play alts, I don't feel they should be punished for doing so. Legion has made it even MORE difficult to play alts than ever before, extending the effort to play an alt not only to another class, but within your specs as well! I don't think that's necessarily a good thing.

Blizzard has already taken some steps that recognize how ridiculous they were being with alts. The unlocks for Arcway and Court of Stars for example. I think there's already enough grind and treadmill in the acquisition of gear and legendaries that changing AP to being account wide, or even just be character wide, would go a long way. I know I like D3's paragon system a hell of a lot more than I like the AP grind in WoW.

[Blayze]

I don't agree, alts shouldn't be at the same level of your main.

I wish people would stop putting words in my mouth.
I don't give a shit about gear.
But if I'm grinding Mythic dungeons for the Illidan chain, I'd rather be able to run them on characters who actually need the gear from those dungeons. The same is true of getting stuck in Emerald Nightmare for months on end because of Corrupted Essence RNG.

[BananaHandsB]

Yup, this is the alt-killer expansion.

ya it's hard to even maintain an OS, let alone an alt.

[Saverem]

Yup, this is the alt-killer expansion.

Pretty much this.

I'm already burnt out trying to do emissary on 2 characters let alone running M+/raiding/AP farming/PvP level grinding

[The Flavour Cat]

I still hate the idea of rep being account-wide as it's easy enough as it is to get a faction to Exalted, and you can get a Legion faction to exalted in a month if you do the associated quests for the faction (Maybe not Wardens, though). I wish they'd have make those goddamn Legion rep insignias/tokens from missions and the Kirin Tor rewards BoA from the start, regardless of whether you were exalted with the faction or not. The insignia are now freaking useless on the alts that I don't need the rep with them.

One thing I'd like to see account-wide is the Vicious saddle mounts. I've got no clue why they're still character bound, and while I don't have any of them, I'd like to use them on alts if I got the chance.

[SirCowdog]

I still hate the idea of rep being account-wide as it's easy enough as it is to get a faction to Exalted, and you can get a Legion faction to exalted in a month if you do the associated quests for the faction (Maybe not Wardens, though). I wish they'd have make those goddamn Legion rep insignias/tokens from missions and the Kirin Tor rewards BoA from the start, regardless of whether you were exalted with the faction or not. The insignia are now freaking useless on the alts that I don't need the rep with them.

One thing I'd like to see account-wide is the Vicious saddle mounts. I've got no clue why they're still character bound, and while I don't have any of them, I'd like to use them on alts if I got the chance.

Easy enough if you happen to have enough free time to sink into your alt in addition to keeping your main up to par. And that's really where the argument stems from. Blizzard has made Legion into the most alt-unfriendly expansion ever. The amount of time required to invest in a character this expansion is MUCH higher than ever before. You not only have the AP grind, but the rep grind, the titanforge grind, and the legendary RNG grind on top of it all. It's TOO much.

In many respects you can not play an alt. You can only switch mains.

[Doffen]

In many respects you can not play an alt. You can only switch mains.

Its quite the opposite. I got three chars, and rerolled main three weeks ago. Trust me, its alot harder to get your new main up to your old mains AK-level, it will take me a month to catch up. My choice tho, and imo rerolling isn't bad either, cause alting is great in Legion. My first alt in legion is now 1 day behind old mains AK-level, better geared etc. Soon exalted with all too. Those BoA rep-tokens are great(from missions) Think how fast your 12th alt is going all exalted when the other 11 alts already are.

Actually having to do stuff is great. All my view on it ofc.

In 7.1.5 this is all moot anyway, insta 20AK on newly dinged alts. Thats too much imo. I wont protest, naturally, cause its helps alot, but you won't get that progression feeling. 1 WQ, hey 20 new traits.

[Lane]

I still hate the idea of rep being account-wide as it's easy enough as it is to get a faction to Exalted, and you can get a Legion faction to exalted in a month if you do the associated quests for the faction (Maybe not Wardens, though). I wish they'd have make those goddamn Legion rep insignias/tokens from missions and the Kirin Tor rewards BoA from the start, regardless of whether you were exalted with the faction or not. The insignia are now freaking useless on the alts that I don't need the rep with them.

It's not about difficulty, it's like SirCowdog said, it's a time sink (not to mention an incredibly tedious and boring grind each and every time). I also think the amount of alts people have is grossly underestimated. It might be acceptable if there were only 2-3, but many have one of each class with some (like myself) even having duplicates on opposing faction. I've done some reps a dozen times (if not more). Enough's enough. I had to draw the line in Legion for my own sanity. I have one character working on the Pathfinder achievements and that's it, I can't/won't do any more.

I agree about the tokens being BoA.

In 7.1.5 this is all moot anyway, insta 20AK on newly dinged alts.

Did they bump it up to 20?

[Shammyrock]

If your main is at 20 you can buy a tome for your alt that gives Insta 20 AK