Obama just granted 231 pardons and commutations – the most ever in a single day

[Fugus]

Most of this is answered in my above comment. The intent is not to protect people from offense but from actual injury. It is believed that drug abusers will harm others physically or emotionally. They will steal to get their fix. This is true, the extent is in question, but it is true.

Whether or not the result is better with having drugs be illegal or not is hard to say. Would we be better off if our military wiped all the cartels off the planet? Probably. You could argue they aren't fighting the war properly ( a common complaint about our government). Regardless, i wasn't saying what is, but what the intent is.

The belief that drug abusers will harm others physically or emotionally and steal to get their fix is true but it is greatly to deal with the drug war that is causing those extremes just as it caused the beer drinkers to turn into just that during prohibition.

The result of it being better if they legalized just pot isn't hard to say, it is a foregone conclusion at this point. Just doing that would decimate the cartels as that is the lions share of their markets while also allowing the government to regulate it for quality and ensure it isn't laced with anything before sold and would keep billions in the US every year rather than having it siphoned off in the black market funding that crap bringing in mountains of tax revenue and keeping cops from chasing them to pad their resume anymore and once the "Bad" factor has worn off, the actual rate of younger kids using actually goes down from what has been shown when similar has been done both here and around the world. With the added benefit that once pot was legal, even the local crime goes down from people trying to rob dealers or rob for dealers and such because Walmart doesn't accept payment in stolen DvDs nor do they try and push other drugs on you while you are there.

[Dug]

There is a pretty big jump between killing babies and don't sell crack. So you just pick and choose which laws you want to obey based on your feelings about them? Speed limits are a human rights violation that's right I do 100mph whereever I go!

If the people don't like such laws, they get changed. If you find a law that terrible and unethical, why don't you gather support to have it changed, why choose to break it because "you" disagree with it. Prohibition didn't last, but drug laws have. Maybe drug laws have some merit, other than being some repressive law to hold an honest man down.

The only difference between the two is your average person isn't going to be doing crack whether it's legal or not. But a hell of a lot of people like alcohol. The average person enjoys drinking. If everybody liked crack we'd see a bigger push.

I'd like for practically all drugs to be legal but I sure as hell have no plans on trying heroin or cocaine. I'm already prone to addiction enough as it is lol

[Tijuana]

Machismo posted the actual details (as far as charges and such):


But yeah, almost all of them are drug charges. A handful of smaller things like bank fraud and such.

As for something I've seen pulled up a few times: Firearms charges. There's a few that I agree are solid and should be there. "Possession of a firearm after former conviction of a felony", for one certainly belongs there.

But some amount of those are these charges: "possession of firearms in furtherance of a drug trafficking crime".

Those don't require you to have the firearm on you, by the way. Merely owning a firearm and getting drug charges nets you this charge. The "prohibited persons" clause for controlled substances makes it a crime to own a gun if you use any illegal drug at all. Ever.

Yeah, this is one of MANY laws that, in my opinion, are unfair and unconstitutional. We should lock people up for less time, make it suck more while they are there (minus rape), and then forgive them fully when they get out. Anything less is inhumane, imo.

[Dug]

Yeah, this is one of MANY laws that, in my opinion, are unfair and unconstitutional. We should lock people up for less time, make it suck more while they are there (minus rape), and then forgive them fully when they get out. Anything less is inhumane, imo.

Make it suck more lol? Is not the shitty way of life in prison enough as it is? It already creates more hardened criminals than go in.

[Felaris Stormrage]

I hope they're given access to a rehabilitation program, because I doubt after serving 10+ years in the federal penitentiary that they're going to slide back into society as productive members. Anyways, I guess its easy to release violent criminals back into society, if you're the one who doesn't have to deal with it.

[I Push Buttons]

Perhaps. To me, drug laws are morally and philosophically unjustifiable. The only reaction against laws like that is widespread disobedience until the government throws in the towel and legalizes them.

Maybe if we weren't a welfare state.

We are though. The government provides for the lowest among us. People poisoning themselves when it will probably be the government footing the bill as their life goes to shit and they hurt themselves with their drug use should not be tolerated.

Unless you are ok with passing a law that says drug users lose access to the safety net, which I am all for? If such a law existed and getting high is worth more to them than their lives, then by all means, they should be free to kill themselves.

[Tijuana]

Make it suck more lol? Is not the shitty way of life in prison enough as it is? It already creates more hardened criminals than go in.

I could not be more against the rape and other violence in prisons. I think we should keep them safe, work the shit out of them, and then allow them back in to the "real" society. We wonder why they commit crimes when they get out, yet we won't give them jobs and take away many of their rights. Also, the sentences are just too long. People make mistakes. People should not be serving 20+ years for non-violent crimes. That's just madness. That's an entire generation that is missed.

[Mad_Murdock]

And you might kill someone driving that fast.

I might kill a taco when I smoke.

Sure if it's MJ, but what about Crack heads? Coke users? Heroin users? PCP users? The argument isn't just for weed, it's for ALL drugs to be completely available for consumption.

And looks like weed isn't much better than my 100mph driving

Marijuana-related fatal car accidents surge in Washington state after legalization

Roughly 10 percent of Washington state drivers involved in fatal car crashes between 2010 and 2014 tested positive for recent marijuana use, with the percentage of drivers who had used pot within hours of a crash doubling between 2013 and 2014, according to a new study by the AAA Foundation for Traffic Safety.

[Shahad]

There is a pretty big jump between killing babies and don't sell crack. So you just pick and choose which laws you want to obey based on your feelings about them? Speed limits are a human rights violation that's right I do 100mph whereever I go!

If the people don't like such laws, they get changed. If you find a law that terrible and unethical, why don't you gather support to have it changed, why choose to break it because "you" disagree with it. Prohibition didn't last, but drug laws have. Maybe drug laws have some merit, other than being some repressive law to hold an honest man down.

It's not about how I feel about the law. It's about what is objectively ethical. The war on drugs causes more harm than good, and is therefore unethical. On top of that, it's well out of bound for the government to try to restrict bodily autonomy in such a way. Speed limits by comparison aren't unethical at all, I've seen countries without them (or, rather, without their enforcement) and the result isn't exactly pretty. So, again, how unethical does a law have to be for you to consider breaking it?

The only reason drug laws have lasted as long as they have is because most people are brainwashed to believe seriously wrong things about them, not because they have any merit. It's pretty common knowledge that they are only causing more death, violence and money going to gangs and cartels. And the only way to get laws to change is to somehow re-educate the entire population while going against what most people believe, while also facing opposition from pharmaceutical companies and other regressive organizations. It's far easier to lead by example with some civil disobedience so opinions can start changing, like what happened with cannabis. And that civil disobedience of personal consumption requires people to produce and sell the substances at some point.

[Orlong]

That's tantamount to blaming the gun when someone shoots another person. Should we make guns illegal, since people with guns do bad things?

Its not even remotely the same. Guns do not alter your consciousness which mars your judgement and makes you do crazy and unwise things. Drugs do. The drugs are the cause of the bad behavior and lawbreaking. Guns dont cause people to use them incorrectly and shoot people

[Noxx79]

Maybe if we weren't a welfare state.

We are though. The government provides for the lowest among us. People poisoning themselves when it will probably be the government footing the bill as their life goes to shit and they hurt themselves with their drug use should not be tolerated.

Unless you are ok with passing a law that says drug users lose access to the safety net, which I am all for? If such a law existed and getting high is worth more to them than their lives, then by all means, they should be free to kill themselves.

You realize every time states have passed a law requiring drug testing for those on welfare, they e failed to catch many, if at all? The cost of the testing had always exceeded the money saved.

Shockingly, it's hard to get addicted to drugs when you have no money.

[Orlong]

The existence of a law is never a justification for it. Almost every single American adult breaks laws all the time.

If its not a just law, then work to get it repealed or changed. Dont ignore it and shit on it and then bitch when you get arrested

[Dug]

I could not be more against the rape and other violence in prisons. I think we should keep them safe, work the shit out of them, and then allow them back in to the "real" society. We wonder why they commit crimes when they get out, yet we won't give them jobs and take away many of their rights. Also, the sentences are just too long. People make mistakes. People should not be serving 20+ years for non-violent crimes. That's just madness. That's an entire generation that is missed.

Ah okay yes I agree with everything here. I imagined some sort of Orlong-esque view of treating prisoners inhumanely because "revenge" or something.

[Zyster]

Just another thing for Obama to write off as being as being a first, or the best, he did while in term. Regardless of the negative ramifications or not. Yet, democrats will still tout it as a bonus.

[Orlong]

Great The last thing that USA needs is more people in jail Its great to know that Obama is using his last days in office to clear some people out of the jail.

Our jails could be empty and turned into libraries or homeless shelters if people would just stop breaking laws. The problem isnt putting too many people in jail. The problem is too many people committing crimes. No amount of prisons or prisoners is too many if they are full of law breakers

[Tijuana]

Ah okay yes I agree with everything here. I imagined some sort of Orlong-esque view of treating prisoners inhumanely because "revenge" or something.

I take offense to being lumped in with Orlong on anything. Just sayin...

[Dug]

Its not even remotely the same. Guns do not alter your consciousness which mars your judgement and makes you do crazy and unwise things. Drugs do. The drugs are the cause of the bad behavior and lawbreaking. Guns dont cause people to use them incorrectly and shoot people

Idk man the smell of gun powder in the air kind of gets you hyped up.

- - - Updated - - -

I take offense to being lumped in with Orlong on anything. Just sayin...

Apologies

[Tijuana]

Our jails could be empty and turned into libraries or homeless shelters if people would just stop breaking laws. The problem isnt putting too many people in jail. The problem is too many people committing crimes. No amount of prisons or prisoners is too many if they are full of law breakers

Well, if you double the length of all sentences, you would factually increase prison population without increasing offenses.

[Orlong]

It's not exactly legal, is it? Prohibition limits those willing to supply it. Once it is made actually legal, the market will be flooded with suppliers, and the price will drop.

If it was totally legal (IE not on the Federal drug classification schedule, and no Federal or State laws prohibiting the use or sale of such), then the suppliers and dispensaries would likely all fold because potheads would just grow it themselves at little to no cost

[Annoying]

Sure if it's MJ, but what about Crack heads? Coke users? Heroin users? PCP users? The argument isn't just for weed, it's for ALL drugs to be completely available for consumption.

And looks like weed isn't much better than my 100mph driving

Marijuana-related fatal car accidents surge in Washington state after legalization

Roughly 10 percent of Washington state drivers involved in fatal car crashes between 2010 and 2014 tested positive for recent marijuana use, with the percentage of drivers who had used pot within hours of a crash doubling between 2013 and 2014, according to a new study by the AAA Foundation for Traffic Safety.

That test literally doesn't exist. Marijuana metabolizes and sticks in fat cells. Sometimes for months.