Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Deleted]

Why do people keep calling it old content IF YOU'VE NEVER DONE IT BEFORE.

Cause we HAVE done the content of vanilla 12 years ago thats why.

- - - Updated - - -

What I want from pristine servers:

- Harder to level (Vanilla difficulty)*
- Hard to get items (Vanilla difficulty)*
- No group finder of any sort
- No heirlooms
- Hard reset to achievements. Pristine achievements will be different from normal achievements
- Hard reset to pets, mounts, you name it.
- (optional/experimental) Locked expansion packet content. Next xpack content is locked for 1/1.5 year.*

* These options may require some changes regarding drop rates/boss HPs etc. It might not be trivial to pull off.

So you want a time machine to go back and start wow in 2004 - got it!

[Kuntantee]

So you want a time machine to go back and start wow in 2004 - got it!

That's the whole point of Pristine/Legacy servers.

[Nayaga]

Been there, done that, don't need to see it again. I would rather Blizzard used their resources creating new content, not recycling old worn out content.

[Deficineiron]

I would rather Blizzard used their resources creating new content, not recycling old worn out content.

it has not been established that retail wow development budget would be impacted by this. most of wow revenue goes other places already.

[Deleted]

Been there, done that, don't need to see it again. I would rather Blizzard used their resources creating new content, not recycling old worn out content.

Except blizzard might get even more money from a content already developped and launched in 2004, and therefore would be able to develop even more content, according to your logic.

[Kallisto]

Except blizzard might get even more money from a content already developped and launched in 2004, and therefore would be able to develop even more content, according to your logic.

IF they had even the slightest evidence that they would be making long term profits from releasing a vanilla server they would have done it by now. Blizzard is a business and businesses exist only to make money. They would not turn down easy dollars.

[Shridevi]

Pre-Cata WoW and post-Cata WoW are two different games. But they're still the two best MMOs ever made.

Some of the best times I had were in Cata and MoP. I engaged in all of it: transmog hunting, battle pet collecting, reforge theorycrafting, race/faction changes, heroics, LFR, arena, rbgs, etc.

I don't want to play Legion simply because an MMO is a huge commitment, and if I was to play any MMO it would be vanilla WoW. Otherwise, I'd just pick another game. It's not like choosing between BK and McDonald's for lunch, it's a 50+ days /played commitment. Same with anti-legacy people, there's no reason for them to spend 50+ days of their life in content that they've already played with antiquated mechanics. Life is short.

Ultimately you can't hold people hostage playing a game that they don't want to play. Just because Legion is the best LEGAL MMO around right now doesn't mean I want to resub. I would rather just play Civ5 or Mount & Blade Warband or something. People who like vanilla better, or any game better, are eventually going to unsub.

This is why Blizzard's handling of the legacy demand is truly facepalm-worthy. It's based entirely on delusion. People have different preferences and what one crowd likes the other crowd won't like. Blizzard owns both games. They want to insist that it's the same game, but it's not. Nobody thinks that. Even people who hate vanilla are distinguishing that it is a different game.

This will go down in history as one of the dumbest things a video game company has done. Right now there are hundreds of thousands of people putting their /played days into vanilla. There is a finite amount they can take. Even I get bored and need breaks. If Blizzard releases legacy 4 years from now nobody will give a shit, better MMOs and other games will be out. They needed legacy servers released like a year ago. It's just sad to watch.

[Eleccybubb]

Pre-Cata WoW and post-Cata WoW are two different games. But they're still the two best MMOs ever made.

Some of the best times I had were in Cata and MoP. I engaged in all of it: transmog hunting, battle pet collecting, reforge theorycrafting, race/faction changes, heroics, LFR, arena, rbgs, etc.

I don't want to play Legion simply because an MMO is a huge commitment, and if I was to play any MMO it would be vanilla WoW. Otherwise, I'd just pick another game. It's not like choosing between BK and McDonald's for lunch, it's a 50+ days /played commitment. Same with anti-legacy people, there's no reason for them to spend 50+ days of their life in content that they've already played with antiquated mechanics. Life is short.

Ultimately you can't hold people hostage playing a game that they don't want to play. Just because Legion is the best LEGAL MMO around right now doesn't mean I want to resub. I would rather just play Civ5 or Mount & Blade Warband or something. People who like vanilla better, or any game better, are eventually going to unsub.

This is why Blizzard's handling of the legacy demand is truly facepalm-worthy. It's based entirely on delusion. People have different preferences and what one crowd likes the other crowd won't like. Blizzard owns both games. They want to insist that it's the same game, but it's not. Nobody thinks that. Even people who hate vanilla are distinguishing that it is a different game.

This will go down in history as one of the dumbest things a video game company has done. Right now there are hundreds of thousands of people putting their /played days into vanilla. There is a finite amount they can take. Even I get bored and need breaks. If Blizzard releases legacy 4 years from now nobody will give a shit, better MMOs and other games will be out. They needed legacy servers released like a year ago. It's just sad to watch.

Debatable. We have been saying "wow killer" for years on end and look what happened there. FF14, Wildstar, Rift, Guild Wars 2, Black Desert, Guild Wars and Everquest 2 to name some. I think WoW is safe for a long time. And looking at future ones like Crowfall looks like another Kickstarted failure waiting to happen imo. I honestly don't see an MMO in the next 4 years taking on WoW due to the fact loads of others have been deemed "wow killers" over the years and well they didn't kill it.

Also they aren't holding anything hostage. You are free not to play the game at any time. Bit overdramatic. At the end of the day the decision to release a Legacy server lies with them. If they choose to then fair enough. If they choose not to then fair enough.

[Kazgrel]

Mods.

I think you should actually close this thread. (Disclaimer to everyone reading: I am not pro / con legacy servers, if you look at my posts in this thread you will see that.)

You are asking to not discuss private servers and experience on those private servers. But the line you are drawing is too thin to notice, nearly every post in the thread other than generic insult posts cross it. I get why you have the line and I get that it is not your invention, it is merely there for the safety of the site. And that's exactly why you should close the thread. If it stays opened, it will continue having posts that cross the line (plus generic insults) on every page, there's just no way around it, you can't discuss the topic without referencing experience on private servers - even semi-theoretical talks about what it would take to develop this or that easily cross with "but the database has been lost, private servers have this and that raid, but they are not really Blizz-like, here's how [... buries the post because it discusses what happens on private servers...]".

Close it.

Not a mod, but this thread serves the purpose of coralling all of oodles of threads that would crop up pertaining to the legacy/pristine server concept (whether or not those threads would be something like "zomg Nost is da bestest" or whatever is a different matter). It's similar to that 20k page thread about flying mounts in WoW back when Blizz first hatched that idea prior to WoD.

[ro9ue]

The Vanilla vs Current WoW argument isn't just about WoW....

Nothing will ever recapture the Vanilla feel. Nothing will ever recapture my time in EverQuest.

Instant gratification is a bad thing and it hurts the whole of the game. I can see both sides of the argument though. On one hand, I was in Jr High/High School during EQ/Vanilla. I could log on and spend 4hrs working on 1 level and it didn't really matter. (EQ was more like 4hrs on .1% of a level).

Would I do that now though? I'm not sure.


All I know is that without any sight of the "end game" and just enjoying the exploration and hardship the world provided, the journey was really enjoyable and memorable. I never actually even hit EQ's max level... and both EQ and early WoW I have very fond memories of, while I can't really think of too many in the later expansions like Wrath and beyond.

This isn't just an MMO genre problem. This isn't just a video game industry problem. This is a massive human problem. People are giving up on harder, more fulfilling activities in place of the more shallow and quick rewards. The "instant gratification monkey". There are a ton of studies for the younger generations (including probably most of us) where we're just looking for a quick fix, and constantly get quick fixes to sate ourselves, but in the long run have depression, anxiety etc because we haven't done anything the "hard way".


It's a complicated topic, and Blizzard the business clearly is more interested in the quick fix model because it's far more profitable (and not a knock just to them, it's just everything these days).

[slaise1]

The Vanilla vs Current WoW argument isn't just about WoW....

Nothing will ever recapture the Vanilla feel. Nothing will ever recapture my time in EverQuest.

Instant gratification is a bad thing and it hurts the whole of the game. I can see both sides of the argument though. On one hand, I was in Jr High/High School during EQ/Vanilla. I could log on and spend 4hrs working on 1 level and it didn't really matter. (EQ was more like 4hrs on .1% of a level).

Would I do that now though? I'm not sure.


All I know is that without any sight of the "end game" and just enjoying the exploration and hardship the world provided, the journey was really enjoyable and memorable. I never actually even hit EQ's max level... and both EQ and early WoW I have very fond memories of, while I can't really think of too many in the later expansions like Wrath and beyond.

This isn't just an MMO genre problem. This isn't just a video game industry problem. This is a massive human problem. People are giving up on harder, more fulfilling activities in place of the more shallow and quick rewards. The "instant gratification monkey". There are a ton of studies for the younger generations (including probably most of us) where we're just looking for a quick fix, and constantly get quick fixes to sate ourselves, but in the long run have depression, anxiety etc because we haven't done anything the "hard way".


It's a complicated topic, and Blizzard the business clearly is more interested in the quick fix model because it's far more profitable (and not a knock just to them, it's just everything these days).

Interesting post. I agree with you.

[Deleted]

Except blizzard might get even more money from a content already developped and launched in 2004, and therefore would be able to develop even more content, according to your logic.

So 200k people (the vanilla lovers) would generate more money then the retail players (1mil+)? that will surely work....

[Deleted]

How do you know vanilla lovers are 200k people or that the retail players are 1mil+?

Don't throw numbers people, arguing numbers WITH NO DATA is a bit stupid FOR THE DISCUSSION

[Deleted]

So 200k people (the vanilla lovers) would generate more money then the retail players (1mil+)? that will surely work....

Nobody is saying blizzard should stop operating their legion server.

[Daffan]

Cause we HAVE done the content of vanilla 12 years ago thats why.

Wow you obviously didn't read my post or the guy I was replying to.

It was about current expansions. Nothing to do with having to beat previous expansion content at all. e.g Why is it good that you can skip HM/BRF straight into HFC? or EN/TOV straight into NH?

End game is for the vast majority much more than that, at a completly different pace, with larger insterests and above all with content being relevant for longer.

MC should be relevant still for the population while the 0.5% are running for the world firts in BW Lair. TK and SSC should be relevant while top guilds are progressing in BT, Kara in TBC was brilliant because it was the most relevant raid for such a huge portion of the playerbase for so long. And so on and so on. The last few years, for several reasons, a new tier comes out and you basicly makes all the previous content borderline irrelevant. This forces some players to "run", to play at a pace that they don't really want to, they become stressed and frustated, and this isn't really the definition of fun is it?

Yup. Feel the same.

The only negative I see about having linear progression is that people complain about "finding people" for early tiers. But seriously, with the implementation of CRZ, Premade finder, FLEX (No more requiring 25/40), B.net and many other QoL features, that problem is essentially removed. It was a problem in TBC and Vanilla, especially requiring 25/40 people was a PITA (That's why so many people never got past Karazhan, and getting to late tier Naxx/Sunwell was impossible for casuals)

Ever since they started adding in insane catchup mechanics and making their own content obsolete each patch, is the same time they started having content drought and people stopped caring about sticking around and progressing their characters - because the effort is not worth the payoff for casuals when in the next patch they'l get better stuff for no reason. Why bother doing crafting or anything more then a few times if you don't raid Mythic? Don't actually have to progress anything because it will be made obsolete in a month or two.

I mean for real, they have to LOCK LFR for WEEKS just because if it was open immediately, people would be done instantly. When NH comes out nobody will care about EN/TOV, even if they never did it - and if they do, it will be trivial with the new gearing.

The whole reason that Legion has SO MUCH RNG on items is that they want to keep people PLAYING the same thing over and over again because there's no actual content for the casual player to progress, so they'd quit otherwise.

Fun quote from Ion Hazzikostas himself in 2008 (Curse Interview)

And when Blizzard "gives away" (relatively speaking) a tier X+3 item to someone in tier X gear, they're basically invalidating a portion of their tier X+1 and X+2 content. Items aren't just "loot" -- remember, they are the only method of progressing your character. To use leveling as an analogy, large skips in item progression are like giving level 62 players a quest that lets them skip to level 67 upon its completion. Players might appreciate such a quest, but its existence would by definition obsolete most of the level 63-66 content.

[NorthWay]

Debatable. We have been saying "wow killer" for years on end and look what happened there.

I agree - Jack 5h1t basically. And I would have seen WoW to be an insurmountable mountain to climb for the me-too's.

But along the road something interesting happened: Blizzard. (Or some might argue: Activision.)
Why? Take a look at these, so far, 38000-ish posts and riddle me this - which WoW should you rather kill, the already six feet under one or the one who is king of the hill?

Perhaps it has become easier to get a foothold in the MMORPG market than it used to be. But you still need to be a class act to be accepted and not stare blindly at the mega-$$$ that Blizz has been raking in - that is a recipe for being killed by WoW. Just don't try chewing over more than you can bite.

[wych]

The Vanilla vs Current WoW argument isn't just about WoW....

Nothing will ever recapture the Vanilla feel. Nothing will ever recapture my time in EverQuest.

Instant gratification is a bad thing and it hurts the whole of the game. I can see both sides of the argument though. On one hand, I was in Jr High/High School during EQ/Vanilla. I could log on and spend 4hrs working on 1 level and it didn't really matter. (EQ was more like 4hrs on .1% of a level).

Would I do that now though? I'm not sure.


All I know is that without any sight of the "end game" and just enjoying the exploration and hardship the world provided, the journey was really enjoyable and memorable. I never actually even hit EQ's max level... and both EQ and early WoW I have very fond memories of, while I can't really think of too many in the later expansions like Wrath and beyond.

This isn't just an MMO genre problem. This isn't just a video game industry problem. This is a massive human problem. People are giving up on harder, more fulfilling activities in place of the more shallow and quick rewards. The "instant gratification monkey". There are a ton of studies for the younger generations (including probably most of us) where we're just looking for a quick fix, and constantly get quick fixes to sate ourselves, but in the long run have depression, anxiety etc because we haven't done anything the "hard way".


It's a complicated topic, and Blizzard the business clearly is more interested in the quick fix model because it's far more profitable (and not a knock just to them, it's just everything these days).

I agree. I've seen a couple people complaining on the Vanilla server that leveling is taking "too long" or asking how to power level.

It kinda misses the point of what makes vanilla great. It's not about maximum efficiency, it's a journey you should enjoy. Exploring a huge, and sometimes terrifying, world. Not just picking up a set of 3 "Kill 15 mobs" "pick up 5 items off the floor" "kill named boss" quests, and moving quickly onto the next set.

Need to walk across an entire zone just to hand in a letter? Cool, take your time and explore on the way, see an awesome looking dam or bridge.

I do want to do Vanilla raiding again, but i'll do it in my own time

[Ielenia]

It kinda misses the point of what makes vanilla great. It's not about maximum efficiency, it's a journey you should enjoy. Exploring a huge, and sometimes terrifying, world. Not just picking up a set of 3 "Kill 15 mobs" "pick up 5 items off the floor" "kill named boss" quests, and moving quickly onto the next set.

Need to walk across an entire zone just to hand in a letter? Cool, take your time and explore on the way, see an awesome looking dam or bridge.

My issue with this kind of argument is that this is something that happens only once, when you first play the game, when you first get to those places. After you see such places for the first time... that's it. It's over. The 'magic' is gone. And you can't re-capture that for vanilla players, unless you actually forget everything they know about WoW so they can 'experience' the game again as if it's new.

These "not the goal, but the journey" and "explore the world" arguments just don't make sense.

[AeneasBK]

These "not the goal, but the journey" and "explore the world" arguments just don't make sense.

Then by now why haven't you just bowed out of the discussion? If its simply beyond your ken. It's nothing to be embarassed about.

[Relapses]

Then by now why haven't you just bowed out of the discussion? If its simply beyond your ken. It's nothing to be embarassed about.

Nobody needs to "bow out" of a discussion just because there's a group of people who want nothing more than to circlejerk themselves into oblivion over the greatness of old versions of WoW. Alternative viewpoints are essential in these discussions though it would seem many pro-Legacy supporters are particularly resistant to any form of constructive criticism.