M+ Rewards With Nighthold

[MrExcelion]

What would you like to see changed with M+ item levels when Nighthold launches? Just you, as a player. A weekly chest buff is likely, but should it require a higher key like a 14 (at the cost of additional weekly grinding)? And should ilvls get buffed in the M+ chests themselves?

For some additional info, here's what they're doing with PVP and the ilvls in Nighthold

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PVP:

Last Week's Rating Base Item Level Appearance
0 - 1399 855 Gladiator
1400 - 1599 865 Gladiator
1600 - 1799 875 Gladiator
1800 - 1999 880 Gladiator
2000 - 2199 885 Elite
2200 - 2399 890* Elite
2400+ 900* Elite

*Item levels 890 and 900 above will become available when the Nighthold raid opens.

===

Nighthold Ilvls:

Skorpyron, Chronomatic Anomaly and Trilliax are ilvl 855 LFR, ilvl 870 Normal, ilvl 885 Heroic, and ilvl 900 Mythic.
Spellblade Aluriel, Tichondrius, Krosus, High Botanist Tel'arn, Star Augur Etraeus, Elisande are ilvl 860 LFR, ilvl 875 Normal, ilvl 890 Heroic, and ilvl 905 Mythic.
Gul'dan is ilvl 865 LFR, ilvl 880 Normal, ilvl 895 Heroic, and ilvl 910 Mythic.

[Deleted]

They already said that M+ will get re-balanced with NH, thatthe base difficulty of the dungeons will increase as well as the rewards.

They will probably tune them so that you agin get the same ilvl as NH Mythic from the weekly cache, and probably tune the other items similar. I can imagine they include 13-15 in the scaling, but I would not bet on it.

[dcc626]

They already said that M+ will get re-balanced with NH, thatthe base difficulty of the dungeons will increase as well as the rewards.

They will probably tune them so that you agin get the same ilvl as NH Mythic from the weekly cache, and probably tune the other items similar. I can imagine they include 13-15 in the scaling, but I would not bet on it.

the base difficulty of dungeons being rebalanced is with 7.2, not 7.1.5

[Krazzorx]

If nothing changes I believe we will need to do a +20 to get mythic NH gear?

[kamuimac]

i wouldnt mind rewards going up since atm they are to low for the difficulty that mythic + offer but tbh i dont care much - had my fun spaming them now im bored with them and doubt i will be back to doin them very often untill well into 7.2 when ill max out 12x100 leveling initial gearing proffesions and farm some artifact skins and prestige levels for artifact skins.

[Deleted]

if m+ drops are not improved when nighthold comes nobody will run m+ anymore

peope would rather watch movies after they clear the raid. like WoD

[Deleted]

If nothing changes I believe we will need to do a +20 to get mythic NH gear?

And the issue is? People are already running + 15's. Just think what we can do with some NH pieces and crazy good trinkets.

[Deleted]

m+ doesnt scale linear

going 10 levels with 3 affixes ? lol nope

probably mythic 0 and WQ rewards will be upped to 845

M+2,3 : 850
M+4,5 : 855
M+6,7 : 860
M+8,9 : 865
M+10,11 : 870
M+12 : 875
M+13 : 880
M+14 : 885
M+15 : 890 (Nighthold heroic) - > weekly chest 905 (nighthold mythic?)

something along this lines

they will never ask for m+20 for max chest , is not possible

[Deleted]

m+ doesnt scale linear

going 10 levels with 3 affixes ? lol nope

probably mythic 0 and WQ rewards will be upped to 845

M+2,3 : 850
M+4,5 : 855
M+6,7 : 860
M+8,9 : 865
M+10,11 : 870
M+12 : 875
M+13 : 880
M+14 : 885
M+15 : 890 (Nighthold heroic) - > weekly chest 905 (nighthold mythic?)

something along this lines

they will never ask for m+20 for max chest , is not possible

People are already doing +20's and its only going to get easier with Tier sets, OP as fuck trinkets and just gear in general.

[Deleted]

People are already doing +20's and its only going to get easier with Tier sets, OP as fuck trinkets and just gear in general.

you mean the 2-3 groups (totalling 15-20 people) that do over m+15, and only in special selected cases, spending 100,000's of gold in pots per dungeon?

oh, and btw, all those 15+ runs are on fortified. theres 60,000+ people with mythic xavius kill so keeping the proportion the chest for Nighthold mythic equivalent should be at around 12+

so no, there wont be any over 14+ requirement for weekly chest, probably even lower.

[Deleted]

you mean the 4-5 groups (totalling 25 people) that do over 15, spending 100,000's of gold in pots per dungeon?

At the moment.
I do between +10 and +15 at the moment depending on affixes so with the gear from NH and the upgrades WQ's I don't see any reason not to do +20 with the right affixes when NH comes in.

[Floopa]

they should just up the rewards by +10 ilvls for each set stage of items rather than making people for 14s/15s for best possible gear. there's no need to do that imo

[Deleted]

they should just up the rewards by +10 ilvls for each set stage of items rather than making people for 14s/15s for best possible gear. there's no need to do that imo

Something like that yeah.
I mean, *most* (a very high %) people can't get higher than ~12(-+1-2 depending on affix) and the new Nighthold stuff won't really change that for the majority unless they get really lucky with WF/TF upgrades.

Personally, at a certain +1'x' difficulty, tyrannical becomes absurd, to the point were I wouldn't do it for a item that is "worth" an itemlevel of ~870. It's kinda out of sync, even if Nighthold is more difficult than EN tuning wise.
The difficulty scales higher and faster than the reward imho.

[Deleted]

The new chest reward will be either 13 or 14. Not +15.

[Deleted]

My wish would be that they don't balance it. Im burned out by M+ and hate the dungeons.

[Krazzorx]

And the issue is? People are already running + 15's. Just think what we can do with some NH pieces and crazy good trinkets.

Couple problems.

1. Without re balancing, it would quickly invalidate the difficulty of getting the +15 artifact skin.

2. It'll either make a +20 too easy or too hard. The problem with fortified and tyrannical is it scales 1 aspect of the dungeon higher talhan another. So the other will fall by the wayside.

Tl;dr, fortified and tyrannical cause scaling issues.

[exor37]

you mean the 2-3 groups (totalling 15-20 people) that do over m+15, and only in special selected cases, spending 100,000's of gold in pots per dungeon?

oh, and btw, all those 15+ runs are on fortified. .

they're clearly investing money and time for those runs....why u mad ?
not all of those runs are on fortified ... you need better excuses dude

[Tojara]

They really need to rebalance it now, or else just let the system completely slide. Under their current model cache loot is generally equal to mythic iLvL (905 with NH) and the drops from dungeons at the highest level would have to be equal to heroic NH (which is 890). Right now there isn't room because 11s give 870 base loot, and 12 gives 885 cache loot.

I suppose the above is a bit of hyperbole as you can fit in the rewards, but difficulty wise it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. To get base 890 loot you would need to do 15s, and to get 905 cache loot you would need to do a 15 or 16 under the current model.

Considering they said they wanted the system to run parallel with the raids being released, they either have to do what I just listed or let M+ essentially fall into oblivion for this tier, which would likely be a disaster. Additionally they said that 15 should always be hard regardless of what point of the expansion you're in, if they don't rebalance starting from the bottom that certainly won't be the case several weeks into NH. +15 is starting to pop up more and more, although their difficulty is still bound by affixes.

You start to run into scaling problems regardless of gear at the higher tyrannical or even fortified dungeons depending on the dungeon. Those affixes scale the dungeons pretty fast, and while people are doing 20 and 21, that's mostly a product of getting the right dungeons and doing them with the right affixes. Tyrannical very quickly turns a lot of dungeons into impossible or incredibly hard, while fortified doesn't. Don't get me wrong though, some dungeons nobody is going to want to run fortified at high levels as they become effectively impossible as well (any instance with hard hitting mobs that have no aggro table for instance).

What they really need to do to make the system balanced is rebalance the entire thing. Basically you make the lower baseline harder, reward better gear and smooth out the difficulty tiers as you climb. If you just smooth out the tiers of reward without making it harder (for instance a couple of the rewards in the sub 10 tier offer the same base iLvL despite one being a tier higher) you make it too easy. The reverse is true too, if you just keep adjusting the reward structure without changing the base difficulty you actually make the intended difficulty for obtaining those rewards harder than what they were months ago, when they shouldn't be.

Are they going to get easier over time? Yeah, that's the point, but they have to have a realistic cutoff where the rewards are out of whack for the effort put in, and in extreme cases (read really high tyrannical/fortified) that it actually gets harder than it was when say EN launched because of how fast those affixes scale.

TLDR; They should rebalance it now. 15 should be just as hard as it was about a month into EN as it will be in NH, that way you have room to grow such that 15 feels a couple months down the road into NH as difficult as we feel it is right now. 12 is a fine number for 905 cache loot, and 10 or 11 would be fine for 890 loot. However, to make it work all the reward structure needs to be bumped as well such that it makes sense, and as a result they need to get harder too.