[HOLY] Fix my Heals!

[Taeldorian]

Honestly with where you are at in progression it seems there is minimal healing and not enough to justify JoL. If you get the legendary ring run JoL no matter what, but until then I would just go JoL on progression or if the pally stops using it. The lack of damage happening and the bursty nature of it in your raid doesn't seem to favor it atm. Also, if you are going to try JoL again. Judge more often. You are a bit behind in that sense. Use it on CD.

Okay so you're really good, quick question.

JoL gets used by the paladin with higher int/sp right? Or is that in 7.1.5? I really wanna use it for M progression when we start next week and our prot pally definitely doesn't use it.

I see it doing a good 9-10% of other holy Paladins healing, so I definitely wanna pick it up over HA.

Main question: Basically, it's good for prog but bad for anything non progression? Also, would you use it in M+ instead of HA/HP?

[Nedralixx]

Okay so you're really good, quick question.

JoL gets used by the paladin with higher int/sp right? Or is that in 7.1.5? I really wanna use it for M progression when we start next week and our prot pally definitely doesn't use it.

I see it doing a good 9-10% of other holy Paladins healing, so I definitely wanna pick it up over HA.

Main question: Basically, it's good for prog but bad for anything non progression? Also, would you use it in M+ instead of HA/HP?

It is good provided there's damage to be healed. If everyone is decked in 890 gear and doing his/her job there's minimal healing to be done. Personally, it is my go to talent as it provides a good chunk of healing for practically no mana and I also have the legendary ring. Don't take it for mythic+ though. The damage in there is very bursty and comes at waves so it is very convenient to have HA and SW ready for those pulls.

[Taeldorian]

It is good provided there's damage to be healed. If everyone is decked in 890 gear and doing his/her job there's minimal healing to be done. Personally, it is my go to talent as it provides a good chunk of healing for practically no mana and I also have the legendary ring. Don't take it for mythic+ though. The damage in there is very bursty and comes at waves so it is very convenient to have HA and SW ready for those pulls.

Awesome, thanks for the reply!

Also it was really late when I wrote that so disregard the wrong info. I meant SW, not HA. It's not even on that row but I blanked out.

That also reminds me, I see tons of Hpallies running around using DP instead of HA/HP. I've heard it has the potential to be the highest throughout talent on that row but I'm not sure. It's not really my playstyle either way but meh.

[EzG]

Awesome, thanks for the reply!

Also it was really late when I wrote that so disregard the wrong info. I meant SW, not HA. It's not even on that row but I blanked out.

That also reminds me, I see tons of Hpallies running around using DP instead of HA/HP. I've heard it has the potential to be the highest throughout talent on that row but I'm not sure. It's not really my playstyle either way but meh.

That talent is great if you are in need of mana at the end of fights or are struggling to be efficient on progression. The free heals really make up for it, but on the otherhand it is out of your control and rng based which means it can proc when literally nothing is happening and just end up wasting heals.

[Deleted]

. If you get the legendary ring run JoL no matter what.

I am still running with HA with this, didn't consider changing back to JoL with the ring, but makes sense, will give a go and see. Thanks

[Deleted]

Hello everybody!

This is my first post on MMO Champ so I'll start with a big thank you for you guys for all the information I learned reading this post!

I'm a new HPAL, 110 since 2 weeks, ilvl860, which had his first TOV raid yesterday evening. Eager to improve I come to you for some advices.

Armory Link: eu(.)battle.net/wow/en/character/arathi/Elril/simple

Worldoflogs Link:
ODYN NM and HM
warcraftlogs(.)com/reports/MWX4QgFBRx87jfKY#fight=1
warcraftlogs(.)com/reports/MWX4QgFBRx87jfKY#type=summary

GUARM
warcraftlogs(.)com/reports/MWX4QgFBRx87jfKY#fight=2

HELYA
warcraftlogs(.)com/reports/MWX4QgFBRx87jfKY#fight=3

Questions, concerns, expectations:

I’m still quite low on ilvl so I’m still gearing up and I know my stats are way from optimal. (not enough crit etc…)
But I’m new to raiding and I would appreciate any advice. It seems it’s not too bad for the Odyn HM and Helya NM considering the ranking for my ivl. (88% and 79%). But I’m sure there’s a lot to improve. (Using Holy Light way more? Not taking the fireballs for instance, been hit too much on the last pull)

For Guarm this is not optimal and any advice is welcome. When I compare to some other HPAL well ranked in the same ilvl, it seems my heals are hitting on average way below the others…
Warcraftlogs(.)com/reports/compare/MWX4QgFBRx87jfKY/W2AGTvJKzZMpRCdD#fight=2,3&source=6,Azaiela&type=healing
Any idea why?

Description of Playstyle: Not much too say. I’ve tried to use BoF but I’m currently more comfortable with BoL and not having to swap the beacon considering this was my first raid…

Cheers!

[Deleted]

Any experience HPAL to give some advices on what to improve?

I would be glad to have your feedbacks!

[nakigara]

Howdy. I'm about to cut bait on this toon/class and as a last ditch effort I'm appealing to you all for help in figuring out why the hell I suck at hpal.

Armory Link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rumored/simple Pants are very new thus no gem.
Alternate Specs/Glyphs: None. Playing this toon just to heal
Worldoflogs Link: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ealing&boss=-2 Last EN run.
Questions, concerns, expectations: I can keep people alive who aren't 'being aggressively targeted by mechanics' (aka dumb) but my ST heals feel weak and I feel like I'm drowning when I'm trying to keep people taking sustained damage alive (no spare globals, their HP continues to approach 0, etc)
Description of Playstyle: I last mained a holy paladin in Wrath, so it's been a bit. I'm trying to keep Holy Shock on cooldown and use FoL during high damage and HL during low damage and tossing in Bestow Faith wherever I can. My raid cooldowns seem .. weak and it feels like I can't catch up. How Mastery works is definitely impacting my output. Should I just ditch the ranged group and hump raid bosses with the melee group against RL direction? I healed without issue as a shaman in WoD but went holy paladin since we had a request for that class in our raid comp and I'm about ready to shard the damn thing.

[Hawg]

Howdy. I'm about to cut bait on this toon/class and as a last ditch effort I'm appealing to you all for help in figuring out why the hell I suck at hpal.

Armory Link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rumored/simple Pants are very new thus no gem.
Alternate Specs/Glyphs: None. Playing this toon just to heal
Worldoflogs Link: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ealing&boss=-2 Last EN run.
Questions, concerns, expectations: I can keep people alive who aren't 'being aggressively targeted by mechanics' (aka dumb) but my ST heals feel weak and I feel like I'm drowning when I'm trying to keep people taking sustained damage alive (no spare globals, their HP continues to approach 0, etc)
Description of Playstyle: I last mained a holy paladin in Wrath, so it's been a bit. I'm trying to keep Holy Shock on cooldown and use FoL during high damage and HL during low damage and tossing in Bestow Faith wherever I can. My raid cooldowns seem .. weak and it feels like I can't catch up. How Mastery works is definitely impacting my output. Should I just ditch the ranged group and hump raid bosses with the melee group against RL direction? I healed without issue as a shaman in WoD but went holy paladin since we had a request for that class in our raid comp and I'm about ready to shard the damn thing.

Tbh - just looking at the first four bosses in your logs, you should quit the class and reroll hunter.

Just kidding

Your performance is not bad, two things are impacting it on the logs: 1st you are healing on a raid team that has one too many healers imho. The overheal % of your healers is very high, so there is not much for you to heal, which will make your relative performance look bad. 2nd the other healers on your team out ilvl you by ~20 ilvls, this will also contribute to making you look relatively worse.

Things you might want to try: if you are standing outside of melee take BoL, inside melee take BoF. Move bestow faith higher in your priority. Move light of dawn higher in your priority. Stop using Holy light all together (use only FoL in its place, or if you dont need that big of a heal then dps). Use judgement of light, and cast judgement on cd. Take aura of sacrifice as your cd, if you do a bestow faith - aura mastery - light of dawn - holy shock - flash of light ; you can take an enitire raid from near zero to full solo, its a very strong cd. In general your priority for non-ohshit moments should be something like this: HS, LoD, BF, Judge, FoL

Try a raid like that and see if you like it better. If one of those other healers has a dps spec, you should 3 heal it instead of 4 heal it imho.

[whitetruffle]

Hello people,

I can't provide my armoury now as i didn't log out in my holy spec. I'm ilvl 873 with 34k INT, ~43% Crit, 44% Mastery as well as leg shoulders.

As this is my first post I realise I can't post links so if any of you would be so kind, please head to warcraftlogs and search for whitetruffle, Barthilas (US), H Helya 1st Jan 2017 Kill.

My HPS is horribly low.Could you guys tell me what I am doing wrong? I didn't take JoL cause the other Hpally had Leg Ring.

Appreciate any help. Thanks!!!

[Deleted]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...bFwkHf#fight=5

You could have used Bestow Faith about 35 times more. Holy Shock ~20 times. Light of Dawn ~25 times. Rule of Law ~10 times. Your overhealing is way too high, especially on FoL. You spent 5 minutes under 25% mana. Wings and Holy Avenger could have been used more often too.
Also, your group could easily kill Helya with 4 or even less healers, so your low HPS is partially due to there not being enough damage to actually heal.

[whitetruffle]

Thanks for the link and reply treeqt. Appreciate it!

Will try to watch my cds and use em next time round.

[Verf]

Hi, so I only rerolled holy about 3 weeks ago, still trying to optimize everything. Managed to two heal Heroic Guarm (16) last night. I am having a hard time remembering to use Bestow Faith and Judgement on CD. I think my biggest problem with BF is just forgetting about it because of the keybind. Judgement however I just find awkward and just forget to use it, is there a mouse over macro or a target of target macro or something I can use for it? I have tried multiple mouseover macros and can't get any of them to work at all. Other than those two issues I think I am doing okay?

7/7 HC EN and 2/3 HC ToV logs here, 16/17 man all 2 healed I finally got a chance to test myself before we go back into mythic
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...aling&source=4

Armory (logged out in dungeon spec)
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ation/advanced

Usually run
BF
Rule
Mercey
Holy Avenger
Judge
Lightbringer for most fights (faith for guarm/ursoc)

Couple of other kills I got 95% but still I need to up my BF and Joe usage or should I just switch talents? Lol

[Deleted]

Do you use mouseover for your heals? In that case you can just keep the boss selected. Also generally allows you to more smoothly dedicate globals to DPSing when you got nothing else to do. Then set up a weakaura for BF and Judgment to remind you when they're ready.

[Verf]

I do use mouseovers for practically everything. I do usually have the boss targeted unless I accidentally click someone. I guess it will just come with practice.
Half the problem is that I couldn't seem to find a spare global to dps the boss, and when I possibly could have done it was at the back of my mind (for the kill posted at least)

[Rikkycurtis]

Tbh - just looking at the first four bosses in your logs, you should quit the class and reroll hunter.

Just kidding

Your performance is not bad, two things are impacting it on the logs: 1st you are healing on a raid team that has one too many healers imho. The overheal % of your healers is very high, so there is not much for you to heal, which will make your relative performance look bad. 2nd the other healers on your team out ilvl you by ~20 ilvls, this will also contribute to making you look relatively worse.

Things you might want to try: if you are standing outside of melee take BoL, inside melee take BoF. Move bestow faith higher in your priority. Move light of dawn higher in your priority. Stop using Holy light all together (use only FoL in its place, or if you dont need that big of a heal then dps). Use judgement of light, and cast judgement on cd. Take aura of sacrifice as your cd, if you do a bestow faith - aura mastery - light of dawn - holy shock - flash of light ; you can take an enitire raid from near zero to full solo, its a very strong cd. In general your priority for non-ohshit moments should be something like this: HS, LoD, BF, Judge, FoL

Try a raid like that and see if you like it better. If one of those other healers has a dps spec, you should 3 heal it instead of 4 heal it imho.

BotLB is good for fights where you have heavy single target damage and heavy LoD use. BoF for every other raid scenarios are much stronger. Nothing to do with being range/melee. Example is Odyn = BotLB since there is heavy LoD use.

JoL>=HS>BF>LoD>FoL/HL

This is a more accurate priority of spells. JoL needs to go off asap to maintain the stacks and HS right after. BF should go off cd on tanks. LoD is only used when more than 3 people will benefit it otherwise it will hit like wet noodle. Better strong LoD than an off cd LoD that does jack all.

Holy Light should not be replaced. FoL for fast heavy damage you need to make up but there are many instances you use HL to fill between cd. Example is Helya phase 1 has such low damage that HL helps conserve mana, Odyn phase 1 also has low damage and mostly HL will suffice and save mana for phase 1 and 2

Cheers

[Deleted]

Hi, I am new to forums so I appologize in advance for any mistakes.

Armory Link: eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/emeriss/Merelinbg/advanced
Alternate Specs/Glyphs: None. Playing only holy.
Worldoflogs Link: warcraftlogs.com/reports/yJRPqprVZxjFd4BX#
Questions, concerns, expectations: My guild is progressing at Odyn mythic in ToV and I am having some hard times healing. I see that my healing is too low and need some advice what to improve in my playstile/tallent choices.

Description of Playstyle: I played with Beacon of Faith which I see now as a mistake. I probably should have used BotLB because of the heavy usage of LoD. May be I should have used Judgment of Light instead of Sanctified Wrath. I'm trying to keep Holy Shock, Bestow Faith and LoD on cooldown. I use FoL and HL according to the situation. Please give us your comments.

One side question. Two days ago again on Odyn but on heroic mode we were two holy paladins in the raid. We are ~same ilvl and we were both using BotLB but I can not understand the reason for the big difference in the our heals values. For example: HS my avg cast ~246k, his ~352k; LoD my avg cast ~500k, his ~800k; FoL my avg cast ~140k, his ~250k;
warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/BtT76xc8YPQVnhXr/BtT76xc8YPQVnhXr#fight=1,1&source=36,3&type=healing

Thank you in advance.

[trm90]

Hi, I am new to forums so I appologize in advance for any mistakes.

Armory Link: eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/emeriss/Merelinbg/advanced
Alternate Specs/Glyphs: None. Playing only holy.
Worldoflogs Link: warcraftlogs.com/reports/yJRPqprVZxjFd4BX#
Questions, concerns, expectations: My guild is progressing at Odyn mythic in ToV and I am having some hard times healing. I see that my healing is too low and need some advice what to improve in my playstile/tallent choices.

Description of Playstyle: I played with Beacon of Faith which I see now as a mistake. I probably should have used BotLB because of the heavy usage of LoD. May be I should have used Judgment of Light instead of Sanctified Wrath. I'm trying to keep Holy Shock, Bestow Faith and LoD on cooldown. I use FoL and HL according to the situation. Please give us your comments.

One side question. Two days ago again on Odyn but on heroic mode we were two holy paladins in the raid. We are ~same ilvl and we were both using BotLB but I can not understand the reason for the big difference in the our heals values. For example: HS my avg cast ~246k, his ~352k; LoD my avg cast ~500k, his ~800k; FoL my avg cast ~140k, his ~250k;
warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/BtT76xc8YPQVnhXr/BtT76xc8YPQVnhXr#fight=1,1&source=36,3&type=healing

Thank you in advance.

Finally found it, but I think it's because he's casting HS on the tank with BotLB, maximising his Mastery bonus (and his Mastery stat is higher than yours). He had his beacon on the Warrior and you on the Monk, but you rarely seemed to directly HS the Monk. With LoD values it's hard to say, but it could be a positioning thing again. He didn't cast Rule of Law at all (weird) but you should try to cast it more than 6 times in a 6 minute fight. Use it on CD with LoD.

For the mythic run, you used RoL way more, and BotLB and BF are both okay. It won't hurt to try out LB and see if the stronger LoDs will help you out. I think you can either stick to SW and try to remember the damage patterns better so you can minimise AW overhealing, or just say fuck it and go JoL (which is much easier to maximise, just use it on CD and you're done).

[Hawg]

BotLB is good for fights where you have heavy single target damage and heavy LoD use. BoF for every other raid scenarios are much stronger. Nothing to do with being range/melee. Example is Odyn = BotLB since there is heavy LoD use.

JoL>=HS>BF>LoD>FoL/HL

This is a more accurate priority of spells. JoL needs to go off asap to maintain the stacks and HS right after. BF should go off cd on tanks. LoD is only used when more than 3 people will benefit it otherwise it will hit like wet noodle. Better strong LoD than an off cd LoD that does jack all.

Holy Light should not be replaced. FoL for fast heavy damage you need to make up but there are many instances you use HL to fill between cd. Example is Helya phase 1 has such low damage that HL helps conserve mana, Odyn phase 1 also has low damage and mostly HL will suffice and save mana for phase 1 and 2

Cheers

Its very rare (at least in my raids) to see the JoL stacks be entirely spent before the next CD. So there is no need to prioritize a judgment before HS 99.999% of the time.

Of course it goes without saying that if LoD will not be needed you don't use it, these sorts of threads require you to do a delicate balance between giving advice and explaining everything about the class. I don't want to write an entire guide in a single response, so I didn't mention that, along with dozens of other little factors.

I disagree with your advice on BoL vs BoF. If you are only healing the tanks maybe it makes sense. But if you are also raid healing, then the more spread-out the raid is, the less BoF wins out over BoL. You want those two circles of mastery to cover as many people you are healing as possible.

The times you are suggesting HL, I'd rather be dps'ing, but your results may vary.

[Katexd]

Hey all.

Decided to go back to my main - my holy pally. I feel like my healing is good - it may be right now just lowish due to my ilvl (being 860), but I want to see if I'm on the right track.

Thanks guys!

Armory Link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Lily/advanced
Alternate Specs/Glyphs: Ret
Warcraftlogs Link: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7vqCcWy2YABx1gLr
Questions, concerns, expectations: I'm concerned that for some reason I have downtime - such as Shock is 1.5 off CD and instead of casting a FoL and then delaying HS by 0.5, I'm instead just standing still for 1.5seconds waiting for the HS. I seem to do this quite a lot throughout a fight. Should I be spamming Holy Light when nothing else to do? Not sure what to do.
Description of Playstyle: Aggressive. I yell at my keyboard and make weird noises when I HS and expect a huge crit. I like to sit in melee due to the mastery but unsure if I'm effective in my healing or if I could be doing more.