Why so much hate for legion ?

[Netherling]

I really liked Legion for a while, especially when I had some holiday time, because there's so much to do. I ran M+ with friends, did pug raids and WQs. However the sheer amount of things to do for your main is overwhelming. Over the years WoW has encouraged players to level alts (especially the expansions like WoD with less content). In previous expansions you could do your daily quests / daily heroic / mythic dungeons / raids and then you were done for the day / week; then it was time for your alt.

I am attached to my main but I also really enjoy playing my alts and I, personally, feel that when I'm playing on my alt I 'should' be playing my main. There is never a time when you're 'done' with your main. For some people this is great but it led to me playing the game an awful lot and content becoming incredibly repetitive as I was constantly doing the same grind on both characters (and wanted to level more but felt overwhelmed already).

Legion is a good expansion but it didn't keep me interested despite the amount of content.

[Deleted]

I'm a heroic raider and the grind required has got me to stop playing...

What are you talking about? I don't belive it. Maybe if you wanted to kill heroic the first 2 weeks of the raid you had to grind that hard, but later? We got all heroic progresion asking our raiders for ilvl 840 and 13 ranks in their weapon. Onviously some of them where 20ish by then and 845 850 ilvl, but not all the raid. And also just a few raiders had their first legendary.

If you need to grind non stop to clear heroic up to stop playing... well, there was some other problem in your guild.

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The grind itself is not an issue. The issue is that the result of the grind is RNG. We used to be able to grind and get BiS, we had control, now we don't.

You have control. Every raid boss has a loot table. You don't need anything more that what is there. TF, sokets, tertiaris, they are all extras not needed to kill the content before next raid, which is what 99% of the players do as you say here:

And clearing content in time for next tier release is hardly "hardcore", lol. I'd say that the first 20-30 guilds in the world are hardcore, rest is semi and below.

So the RNG and legendaries are problematic for this 20 30 guild so it is no problem at all, they choose to be the best and compete. They have to grind non stop or loose their raid spot? It is ok, because the advantages the system has for everyone else heavely outwheig this problem, as I pointed in my first post.

Now a raider can grind 1000 M+ and get Prydaz, and a casual does an LFR and gets Anger of the Half Giants.

Oh Blizzard thanks for the legendary system everytime I read this I have a good laugh. And what? What happens? The raiders is suposed to have good skills and will overperform the filthy casual in any circumstance. The raider don't need the legendary to see the content. The casual will not see it before he solos it next expansion. Again, there is no problem.

I also love how you don't care if 1% suffers through this. My god do I wish that YOU end up as a suffering one percent that everyone else spits upon.

I don't care because RNG loot makes all content relevant. Which is much more important than the top 30 guilds and a bunch of wanabees farming non stop to maximize results. Now people goes to dungeons and WQs because there is a litle chance to get an upgrade. In the past once you where geared from open world and dungeons all you did was wait for raid hours. Now thee is people everywhere, guild is lively with groups forming during off raid time.

For me this is better. Even more so. The ones who don't want to do this stuff don't, they come online at raid time, play and log out. They don't need to grind because we don't ask for 50 traits 2 bis legs 890 ilvl. And still we progress and see the content.

[Army Dreamer]

No hate. Just a disappointment on some matters.

[Heltoray]

Quickly, come to defend Blizzard!!! Somebody has a legitimate complaint about WoW and we can't accept that!!!!

[Raziella]

Really enjoyed the level up, but after that it quickly became boring.

Stuff is gated that shouldn't be gated (rep grinds, questlines) and stuff that maybe should be gated, isn't (AP quests, mythics.)
Led to me playing way too much of the repetitious stuff right off the bat, and being completely sick of it.

Put stuff like lore quests, big dungeons, and even professions behind content I didn't want to do (mythics and normal raids) instead of just higher ilevel gear and maybe a chance at a mount, like previous expacs.
Led to me trying to force myself to do these things and having no fun in the game.

Outgearing LFR EN after one day of WQs was also pretty disappointing. Leaves me with nothing to strive for except transmog gear, grinding boring WQs for AP and hoping that a piece of gear might upgrade, or a legendary might drop, but the RNG hates me. I feel like maybe when I do the work/grinding, it should actually be for a reward... not the chance that a reward might someday happen. That should be left for raid and dungeon bosses, not nearly unlimited WQs and legendaries.

[belleflop]

Hate is such a strong over-used word. Some of the things I don't find fun is the lacking risk reward satisfaction. RNG ontop of RNG for everything (pvp gear,pve gear,legendaries,hidden artifact skin, etc), the ploy I think is most obvious, they purport to release more content faster but really they just put everything on an RNG treadmill and told everyone it's "new" content at a faster clip.

So rather than argue about it, I will just unsubscribe because I'm not enjoying their direction and will resubscribe at a time I think they can follow up on their promises to fix the overabundance of RNG components that I don't find enjoyable.

[Deleted]

Yeah, it all comes down to me vs you. What's good for me (targetable BiS in raids only) is not good for you.

You can't say your BiS is a WQ reward IF it rolls with soket, tertiary and TF to 895. If that's your objective no doubt you are scewd as fuck. As you told me, you don't push for Mythic FK, so you don't need that. You can get the kills with the gear you have got in all the raids done until now, like in previous expansions. The diference is that in this one you can get a little upgrade outside of raids with a very low chance. A chance that makes worth playing the game, but not farming as crazy.

Which reason we had in WoD to do the daily zone quests or the dungeons? Zero. What we did? Stay in Garrison till raid time. Was it good? For some, yes, they only wanted to kill bosses in raid. For a lot more, no. We can say assuredly that WoD has been one of the worst expansions because of this. Not just my opinion, but the opinion of many more in dozens of threads here in mmo-champ about it.

What is even more important. The WoD style of player is not dead. You can literally login for raid time, play and get your gear there, and logout. You will see the content. And probably this guy will have just a little disadvantage in ilvl from one guy farming all day.

Good. You have this round of fun, gratz. The balance will swing again, I hope, and I also hope you don't get SHIT next time, just as you are having fun that others have a miserable time in Legion, after they had FUN in all other expansions.

I have fun with the "I'm raider and I don't get Legendary. Filthy casual got one. So unfair." because it is a greedy behavior that all we should have left behind when we where 12.

You know when people like me got the SHIT as you said? When we have NO REASON no play the game because there was no possible reward anywhere outside raids. We where a lot of players screwed by this system. People stoped playing by thousands during WoD. In my server dozens of guilds disapeared. The ones we survived we had to work incredibly hard to recruit the little people that was left. I lost some friends who got tired of just raiding. And they will not come back now because they don't care for the game anymore.

Have a bad day, sir.

There we go, being rude. That's usual in people that runs out of arguments. From now on I won't answer to you. I'm here to have a civilized discusion, not to be insulted.

And we gonna keep this going and change the system to be fair yet again:

EFFORT -------------> REWARD. Not 1000 m+ for Prydaz while you get Anger of Half Giants on your 3 days old alt.

Don't you worry, it will happen. Just watch it.

Still with the legendary? Only this time you changed the filthy casual archenemy of all raiders for an alt to make your argument sound beter. Remember my first post was about random gear, not legendaries, but we can discuss them anyway. Legendaries are unbalanced? Yes. Legendaries are needed for anything in the game? No. Unless you are trying to be one of the very litle minority of players in the very top. But I don't hear elite athletes whining because they have to train every day and repeat the same boring exercices. If you don't want to do whatever is possible to be in the top, why do you deserve to be in the top?

I will repear myself. No guild needs legendaries, perfect random gear or full AP in their players to get Mythic kills in time. It is there to make things a litle easier and content relevan. Skill, experience and good leading are much more important than all of that.

[Kazgrel]

Well, you can just browse around on this forum for oodles of reason as to why people don't like the expansion...

[Stormspark]

Vocal minority of special snowflakes that are mad that someone else might have something that they don't have, because legendaries aren't based on time played but RNG. How dare some filthy casual get a good legendary from LFR when I've been grinding for months and don't have the one I want!

[Eleccybubb]

Vocal minority of special snowflakes that are mad that someone else might have something that they don't have, because legendaries aren't based on time played but RNG. How dare some filthy casual get a good legendary from LFR when I've been grinding for months and don't have the one I want!

That's not the issue about it for me personally. Well the RNG is a little but a very minor one. The big issue that is half of them are just stat sticks and worthless. Legendaries should feel powerful and an upgrade and Sephuz to the class I was playing was a downgrade from my Mastery-Crit 860 ring.

[Healing Rain]

I can't really judge Legion since I haven't bought it. However it's a disgrace what the devs did to flying. Flying is something players should be able to do the moment they first step foot on the Broken Isles. So gating it behind reps, 7.2 and more reps is the worst decision they've ever made. Only ignoring the Blood Elf and Draenei areas during the Cataclysm revamp could be considered worse because it made the Cataclysm revamp a waste.

[Deleted]

I can't really judge Legion since I haven't bought it. However it's a disgrace what the devs did to flying. Flying is something players should be able to do the moment they first step foot on the Broken Isles. So gating it behind reps, 7.2 and more reps is the worst decision they've ever made.

no, it's not. why do you even keep bothering if you don't play the game...and clearly don't understand it?

[Eleccybubb]

I can't really judge Legion since I haven't bought it. However it's a disgrace what the devs did to flying. Flying is something players should be able to do the moment they first step foot on the Broken Isles. So gating it behind reps, 7.2 and more reps is the worst decision they've ever made. Only ignoring the Blood Elf and Draenei areas during the Cataclysm revamp could be considered worse because it made the Cataclysm revamp a waste.

Oh yeah god forbid you have to go around exploring and questing to unlock flying right? Flying is fine the way it is now. Also they ignored those areas because adding flying to them was hard because they were BC zones in an old world area. Trying to enable flying there could possibly screw it up in Outland itself hence why they left them alone.

[Stormspark]

That's not the issue about it for me personally. Well the RNG is a little but a very minor one. The big issue that is half of them are just stat sticks and worthless. Legendaries should feel powerful and an upgrade and Sephuz to the class I was playing was a downgrade from my Mastery-Crit 860 ring.

I agree, the secondary stats being broken is an issue. But it's not gamebreaking, and they're fixing a lot of that in 7.1.5.

[Bathory]

So i started playing around week ago, and i really do not get why people hate this expansion so much ?

Because it's not 100% perfect.

[Willias]

I think Legion is alright overall, but I don't like how they handled loot and class balance feels pretty ugly.

There should be some sort of path to progression for loot, and the way they've handled Titanforges over all has thrown that off. A random world quest can give you an item that's just as awesome as stuff you could pick up out of a dungeon, and if the secondary stats are right, the stats can be better than anything you can find in a dungeon or raid.

Kind of ugly when killing 25 man dragons yields worse loot than a quest where you smash nuts and collect squirrels.

I think the way they've handled legendaries has been piss poor as well. When you have guilds sitting raid members because they didn't get lucky enough, you've screwed up on how you've handled loot.

[Not A Cat]

Same shit different expansion. It's people responding to change, they either like it or they don't.

Plus the negative always outshines the positive. Someone goes to a restaurant and they loved the food. They may tell a few people of their experience if the topic comes up, but they will most likely keep it to themselves and keep going back. However, if the experience was shit, they are more likely to let everyone know.

Regardless, if you're having fun and if you like the expansion then it shouldn't matter what other people think. Just have fun yo!

[Steelangel]

There are different degrees of casual. You're thinking of the casual player that maybe isn't even level capped yet, and you're right they haven't quit. The slightly less casual player that played maybe an hour a day at launch and started doing some world quests though? They absolutely outgeared their endgame before it was even released. They quit ridiculously fast this expansion.

No, I'm thinking of the casual players which constitute my entire guild, and we're doing heroic raids by logging in a little bit and enjoying ourselves.

We don't have dreams of being Mythic world 1000 raiders. We get drunk and down bosses.

[justjm]

So i started playing around week ago, and i really do not get why people hate this expansion so much ?

My main was a warlock. Demo got retconned into a horrible summoner model, which forces you to 'empower' minor demons, is screwed in a world of movement fights and requires you to play at the 99th percentile to be as good as a 75 percentile fire mage, destro has the most stark choice of AOE vs ST, where as a fire mage gets the best of both worlds and affliction's two main gold points in the artifact, are based on a model from beta, which was changed but they left the talent as is.

The class has never felt worse or more generic and utterly without flavor.

I quit thanks to that plus the utter lack of alt's being anything decent to play, the forced RNG upon RNG, the mythic+ model being terrible (i got upto only 8 and then quit) and a bunch of other stuff. Class balance has truly never been worse.

Ultimately i play to enjoy myself and when i found myself dreading to even log in, that was it for me. Simply choose to walk away, than whine or talk about it. There is no point.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

No, I'm thinking of the casual players which constitute my entire guild, and we're doing heroic raids by logging in a little bit and enjoying ourselves.

We don't have dreams of being Mythic world 1000 raiders. We get drunk and down bosses.

That's mostly us. We don't get drunk per se, but I'm usually having a beer and we all hang out in Discord giving each other shit and having fun. I describe us as casual-but-competent. Currently 1/7M & 2/3H, should be 2/7M & 3/3H before this week is over. We don't claim to be elite, but we run +10s and +12s together, Nightbane runs, and eventually clear the raids. We know what our BiS is, but don't feel we can't have fun without it. We treat it like a game, not a job or way of life.

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Ultimately i play to enjoy myself and when i found myself dreading to even log in, that was it for me. Simply choose to walk away, then whine or talk about it. There is no point.

Exactly! I never got to the point where I dreaded logging in, but I did get weary of the game and took a long (3 year) break. And you know what? Life was beautiful! I had fun while away, and the game went on without me.

So many people talking about reasons to quit or walk away, and no one talks about what I think is the best reason: our health. Sitting at a computer for so many hours a day is horrible for our health. Even if we workout sometimes, all the sitting is still bad for us. I think of myself as pretty outdoorsy, so playing a computer game so much definitely creates some dissonance in me. I justify it in part by knowing I won't want to play forever, that I'll eventually get it out of my system and move on to other passions again. Right now I'm thinking I'll play through this current story arc, returning to Argus on my Draenei pally and closing out Kil'Jaeden once and for all, then bow out again. When that happens, I'll most likely disappear from MMO-C as well.

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Only ignoring the Blood Elf and Draenei areas during the Cataclysm revamp could be considered worse because it made the Cataclysm revamp a waste.

???? O.o

Ok

lol