Legion ended up being a repetitive grind

[epLe]

- Most Raiders are casuals.
- Every single raidlogger is casual.
- Most whiners about Legion is grindy or alt-unfriendly is casual.

- The Cutting Edge raiders who are not casual (3/3m ToV several weeks ago) is a very small minority.

[Guyviroth]

Every WoW expansion, including Vanilla has been a grind.

Vanilla? Grinding mobs for EXP when you ran out of quests to do. Looking at you, Arathi Highlands.
TBC? Grinding dungeons for badges.
WotLK? Same thing. Plus all those dailies.
Cata? Grinding heroics for gear and rep grinds for head / shoulder enchants.
MoP? Once again, more dailies.
WoD? Well there wasn't much to grind for.

Every MMO has a big grind to do for something or another. That's the nature of the beast.

[Glorious Leader]

Most casuals don't raid. The game essentially ended for them when they were finished with dungeons, at which point many either stopped or rolled an alt.
Very few started to raid even normal mode.

LFR fixed that somewhat, although ever since [the end of] MoP [/the beginning of WoD] it has been useless in terms of actual gear progression b/c raiders QQ'd enough for Blizzard to nuke the rewards into oblivion (to this day I wonder why they even bothered to maintain it).

People wanted non raid / item based character progression for YEARS. This is what Blizzard came up with. (It kinda reminds me of path of the Titans back in Wraths pre alpha)
Ofc it's a nuisance for raiders, because they don'T care about such things. To them it doesn't feel like nice progression, they feel held back by a time gate until their class is unlocked as it should be, so they try to brute force it and burn out.

I can kind of understand that mindset, as I used to be a raider for 8 years and know that I would probably be as pissed about it as you are if I were an active raider.

[ ] Edits for clarity

Tbey had farming for valor till that was gutted. Ironically enough the devs claim to hate buying shit for currency (i.e deterministic) so valor was out till they realized how.badly that fucked casuals and then they added artifact progression an even more grossly deterministic for of advancement. *shrug* i was okay buying tier pieces farming points from dungeons. In the end raiders really fucked themselves when they pushed blizz to remove valor. The devs simple cant ignore max level non raid progression

[Mazaxist]

Personally I didn't have a problem with grinding. I actually liked it, there was a lot of things to do. There are a few minor things i did not like about legion, but eventually i just got bored.

people say - move on play another game? I cant and honestly don't want to. I stopped playing Legion and probably will not play any other games. I want the old days back, vanilla + BC were the best. It seems like every expansion the game gets worse IMO. I have never ever stopped wow until WOD.

[Deleted]

As usual, Blizzard overdid things.

This is definitly dropping to Cataclysm levels on my ranking. I would've stopped playing already if people didnt pretty much insist really hard that i stay. I will probably still leave though. I can't handle the grind anymore. AP and legendaries are the bane of my existance. I don't enjoy playing WoW anymore. Just do it cause of the people. The dull class design doesn't help with the repetitiveness either.

[Masxasm]

Pretty much have just resigned myself to do only the the emissary quests and pvp quests. It would be major burnout to do everyone AP every time I log on.

[Granyala]

Pretty much have just resigned myself to do only the the emissary quests and pvp quests.

That#s how you are supposed to do it.
It is the intention that it takes months to progress your Artifact.
I hit 34 yesterday on my main and never really "grinded" anything at all. Did my Emmissary and a few extra wenn I was in the mood and hat fun.

I really can't fathom what is so hard to understand about this and why people try to bruteforce it.

Now whether such a stretched out progression is actually fun or not would make a far better discussion than "QQ why can't I do it in 2 weeks time?!".

- - - Updated - - -

Ironically enough the devs claim to hate buying shit for currency (i.e deterministic) so valor was out

Yeah I really miss valor.

I just LOVE being able to buy a complete, good looking set with awesome stats for CURRENCY in FF-XIV.

Did 3 M dungeons yesterday. Got diddly squat except 2 shards.
This just doesn't feel rewarding or fun, esp once you realize that your chances won't go up as you do more dungeons.

Once you pass 850, you can basically forget reliable gearing except for very high M+ and raiding.

[Deleted]

I really can't fathom what is so hard to understand about this and why people try to bruteforce it.

It's all about social pressure and shaming in hardcore raiding scene.
They tell themselves "they must, otherwise they're not team players" - "otherwise the failure of their team is on them" - "they lose their competitive edge".

And for the absolute top, the grinding probably gives advantages and powergains over others. And that's fine, but let's keep in mind that in those cases, we're talking about extreme outlier cases.

Nothing about their gameplay is and has ever been "normal". I find it quite hilarious that they're now demanding Blizzard to implement mechanics that would protect them - from their own actions. It's all just so ridiculous, it's hard to find words for it. But the hardcore raider tears are deliciously hot and bitter right now. :-)

[VooDsXo]

Once you pass 850, you can basically forget reliable gearing except for very high M+ and raiding.

As it is supposed to be...why would you get the best gear from being a wandering hobo? The reality is you need to do end game content for end game gear...if you don't like that don't play anything RPG.

[Granyala]

Nothing about their gameplay is and has ever been "normal". I find it quite hilarious that they're now demanding Blizzard to implement mechanics that would protect them - from their own actions. It's all just so ridiculous, it's hard to find words for it. But the hardcore raider tears are deliciously hot and bitter right now. :-)

One would think that hardcore raiders were intelligent enough to realize when sth causes burnout and a loss of fun in order to avoid it.
I guess Legions increased requirements to be considered "hardcore" weed out many people that thought they were but aren't.

Naturally that is a huge blow to anyone's ego, esp poor creatures that derive their sense of self worth from being "better" than others in an MMO. (not saying all hardcore raiders are like that, but there are some)

Asking the game to change after people asked for YEARS to get more to do on one character instead of playing a gazillion alts is.. yeah.... a bit pathetic.

Either suck it up and do the leg work or admit that you are not as "hardcore" as you thought you were. Because in order to be hardcore in any MMO you need both: skill AND a crapload of free time.

- - - Updated - - -

As it is supposed to be...why would you get the best gear from being a wandering hobo? The reality is you need to do end game content for end game gear...if you don't like that don't play anything RPG.

The only problem is: you reach that point very quickly. Not really surprising that people then loose interest if they feel that they are "stuck".

As for the endgame content: remove the retarded timer from M+ and I gladly do it. But I HATE racing against some dumb clock.

[Deleted]

I quit WorldQuests like 2 Month ago and stopped playing altogether a few Weeks ago. I did Raids and Karazhan still but did not get a good Item in Weeks. Yeah you get like 880 or 895 Items in EN, but they are still crap. And even if they were BiS its no fun at all. I'd rather level slowly on Nost and get Blues or be happy with Gree Questrewards. Leveling is a pain but thats why every little Reward and Talent makes you feel you progressed your Character and became stronger.

Its basically same as WoD, but without the free Gold from the Garrison. And since its such a pain to the the Orderhall Ressources even the little Gold from there is not worth it. I'd rather grind 10hrs on Nost than do a single Worldquest again!

[Deleted]

One would think that hardcore raiders were intelligent enough to realize when sth causes burnout and a loss of fun in order to avoid it.
I guess Legions increased requirements to be considered "hardcore" weed out many people that thought they were but aren't.

Naturally that is a huge blow to anyone's ego, esp poor creatures that derive their sense of self worth from being "better" than others in an MMO. (not saying all hardcore raiders are like that, but there are some)

Yes, indeed - looking at the recent Twitter "drama" around this, you can see how certain, older hardcore guilds (that have now slipped to obscurity) are very heavily represented in the discussion - and you can clearly see the hurt egos trying desperately to stay "relevant" - even though their guilds don't cut it anymore.

The leading argument seems to be "yeah but we used to be able to do this! wtf?!" - which is hilarious.

[Granyala]

I'd rather level slowly on Nost and get Blues or be happy with Gree Questrewards. Leveling is a pain but thats why every little Reward and Talent makes you feel you progressed your Character and became stronger.

And then leveling is over and you will see that you are just as stuck with RNG loot and "raid or die" as you are in Legion. *chuckles*
It's just the nature of the beast.

[Deleted]

I mean Augment Runes are nothing compared to the consumable grind in Vanilla + TBC.
But I hate them aswell.

As for people quitting because burned out and what not, it happens every expansion.

[Sencha]

World quests - 834 over my whole account according to my armory.

Are you a bot irl?

[Granyala]

Are you a bot irl?

My Achievement tracker shows 684 WQ done (all on one character), so 800ish is not that much.

[Deleted]

Are you a bot irl?

I am sure some ppl are closing in on 5k by now.

[Granyala]

°_°

No wonder some of you are burned out.

[Eleccybubb]

Newsflash. MMOs have always been a grind. Since the days of Ultima and Everquest to the days of FF14 and GW2. Hell go grind your Legendary weapon in GW2. THAT is a motherfucking grind and half. I'm not even half done because getting a group to do the Honor of the Waves dungeon is annoying and the only other option is the PvP reward track.

[shyguybman]

Yea I'm around 2600 WQ LUL @ sub 1000