[7.2] Legion Shadow Priest Guide and Discussion

[Gorsameth]

So my SPriest is one of my alts but I rarely play the character due to how shit of dps it does without StM. It's 866 ilvl with the shitty boots as it's legendary. I'm doing only like 200k on a dummy without StM but with it I'm doing around 350k. Are shadow priests really that useless without StM?

On live? Yes

7.1.5 will make non StM better to pretty much the point where the penalty of StM (death at the slightest miss play) is no longer worth the small dps increase.

[Teippi]

I don't really get why everyone is so hot on 'Misery' for M+. Ok you get your dots out faster, but your damage comes from being inside voidform and getting those voidbolts out before you need to reapply dots.

I know insanity generation got buffed across the board, but I'm still planning on running LotV even in high Tyrannical runs.

LotV and Misery are on different talent tiers.

[danieltang34]

So my SPriest is one of my alts but I rarely play the character due to how shit of dps it does without StM. It's 866 ilvl with the shitty boots as it's legendary. I'm doing only like 200k on a dummy without StM but with it I'm doing around 350k. Are shadow priests really that useless without StM?

Yes, without s2m your dps is worse than a prot pal
But with s2m you will be the most imba dps

[methz]

I don't really get why everyone is so hot on 'Misery' for M+. Ok you get your dots out faster, but your damage comes from being inside voidform and getting those voidbolts out before you need to reapply dots.

I know insanity generation got buffed across the board, but I'm still planning on running LotV even in high Tyrannical runs.

A. Having your dots out faster is going to get you into voidform faster, either with AS or SI.

B. They're not on the same talent tier? You don't have to pick one or the other.

[Onyd]

Try applying for lfg M+ as a sp.

Done it, have the achieve and the loot. The people have spoken and they love mind bomb (and shackle undead in BRH).

[mkultra55]

A. Having your dots out faster is going to get you into voidform faster, either with AS or SI.

B. They're not on the same talent tier? You don't have to pick one or the other.

How do you figure? Based on the above comments from posters on the PTR we only get the 6 Insanity from casting VT. We save a GCD but lose out on the Insanity gain from casting SWP.

[Deleted]

On live? Yes

7.1.5 will make non StM better to pretty much the point where the penalty of StM (death at the slightest miss play) is no longer worth the small dps increase.

this is not true. stm is still by far the best choice in the lv 100 talent row. atleast for raids. in tov / en there isnt a single boss where you wouldnt pick s2m in 7.1.5.
Cant talk about nighthold.

Mythic+ will definatly not be a s2m anymore which i quite like

[Onikaroshi]

How do you figure? Based on the above comments from posters on the PTR we only get the 6 Insanity from casting VT. We save a GCD but lose out on the Insanity gain from casting SWP.

More potential Shadow Apparitions from VT and SWP crits in the saved GCDs. Not to mention PI doesn't help you get into VF faster cause you're not hitting PI out of VF anyway. Misery will really only shine in encounters with lots of steadily spawning adds or M+, but I'll bet its huge there, every saved GCD is extra damage.

[davesignal]

How do you figure? Based on the above comments from posters on the PTR we only get the 6 Insanity from casting VT. We save a GCD but lose out on the Insanity gain from casting SWP.

The initial cast of SW:P is the worst ability in your kit in terms of insanity generation. The GCD you save not having to hard cast SW:P can instead be spent on Mind Flay, which generates significantly more insanity.

[mkultra55]

More potential Shadow Apparitions from VT and SWP crits in the saved GCDs. Not to mention PI doesn't help you get into VF faster cause you're not hitting PI out of VF anyway. Misery will really only shine in encounters with lots of steadily spawning adds or M+, but I'll bet its huge there, every saved GCD is extra damage.

I don't know. Saving multiple GCD's over a long encounter with a lot of adds is nothing to dismiss but I think you're over stating Misery's impact on Voidform uptime via SA. I can see the effect via the use of those GCD's on other skills but we're talking about one GCD per mob. How much more uptime on Apparitions do you think that translates to?

TBH I think Misery needs to include Insanity from the applied SWP.

[Onikaroshi]

I don't know. Saving multiple GCD's over a long encounter with a lot of adds is nothing to dismiss but I think you're over stating Misery's impact on Voidform uptime via SA. I can see the effect via the use of those GCD's on other skills but we're talking about one GCD per mob. How much more uptime on Apparitions do you think that translates to?

TBH I think Misery needs to include Insanity from the applied SWP.

You're missing the point, in 7.1.5, One cast of SWP is 4 insanity, in that same GCD I could get 6 from half a cast of MF or 15 from a MB. In add fights, like ily or helya, those saved GCDs add up to quite a bit of insanity. Like the other poster said, SWP is by far the WORST insanity generation. Not to mention the Set bonus makes misery even better. 10 insanity from one cast with NO cd would be far too OP. It's fine where it is and its really good for what it's made for.

Edit:

Not to mention in a large multi-target group you're only going to be throwing out one of the two dots anyway, usually SWP with AS, but with misery you'll be getting both out in large groups so thats pure dmg increase

[mkultra55]

The initial cast of SW:P is the worst ability in your kit in terms of insanity generation. The GCD you save not having to hard cast SW:P can instead be spent on Mind Flay, which generates significantly more insanity.

Wait. Significantly more? Misery let's you get Flay out one GCD early which nets out to be 4 Insanity more total over 3 GCD's but that's only only a single target since in a multi target situation you won't be using Flay right after application.

I'm not dismissing Misery FYI.

- - - Updated - - -

You're missing the point, ......

No I get it. I understand the value of multiple GCD's over a long encounter. I just disagree with the level of over exuberance you guys have. Please look at the post I responded to. He said having our DOTS out faster meant more Insanity due to AS. That's what I was commenting on.

[methz]

I don't know. Saving multiple GCD's over a long encounter with a lot of adds is nothing to dismiss but I think you're over stating Misery's impact on Voidform uptime via SA. I can see the effect via the use of those GCD's on other skills but we're talking about one GCD per mob. How much more uptime on Apparitions do you think that translates to?

TBH I think Misery needs to include Insanity from the applied SWP.

I mean, you're also just comparing insanity gen from pain and like, maybe one ghost or a tick of mindflay, which I think is the lowest comparison to make. It also removes a punished global if for some reason you need to apply dots while in voidform, say on newly spawned adds. One VT cast and you're free to bolt/flay (which will generate _significantly_ more insanity on a tick with grouped targets) vs. the added global before you're free to do so. Probably especially useful on adds without a big health pool.

Still a niche talent for sure, but I think it's going to be really useful in those situations.

[Arachnofiend]

Skorpyron is a perfect test for the efficacy of Misery, it's exactly the sort of fight it should theoretically excel at.

[hawtlol]

On live? Yes

7.1.5 will make non StM better to pretty much the point where the penalty of StM (death at the slightest miss play) is no longer worth the small dps increase.

Thanks for the replies. I wasn't sure if I was just somehomw missing something big when I wasn't StM or if Blizzard was really just that stupid with their design. That's really disappointing because I like playing my priest but I don't want to be a one trick pony when running content.

[Fleckens]

Skorpyron is a perfect test for the efficacy of Misery, it's exactly the sort of fight it should theoretically excel at.

How so? from what I remembered on beta you pretty much just single targeted as shadow as the adds would die in seconds.

[Arachnofiend]

How so? from what I remembered on beta you pretty much just single targeted as shadow as the adds would die in seconds.

I haven't played it myself, going by hearsay. My impression was that the adds were significantly healthier and more challenging to deal with than that. Hm.

[Fleckens]

I haven't played it myself, going by hearsay. My impression was that the adds were significantly healthier and more challenging to deal with than that. Hm.

Yeah just watched a video from ptr, seems they do live a bit longer than I thought, although still not sure if they are worth dotting, will have to wait and see I guess, but seems leaving it to the stronger aoe classes might be better if it's just padding.

[Malico]

Will there be new shadow guide 7.1.5 soon?

[Yhcti]

Sorry to bring up another of these posts however.. as mentioned in the Paladin threads I love my single dps spec classes and am levelling my paladin and Priest to play with my demon Hunter; I'm casual so only do wq/Lfr and M+, how is shadow for this? I understand they aren't the greatest for M+ due to ramp up on Aoe, will that get easier in patch? And is s2m the only viable build?

Any helpful info for a newb priest much appreciated