Legion ended up being a repetitive grind

[MHMabrito]

Why do people even come to these forums to complain? Are they seeking some sort of attention? Looking for someone to tell you, "No, it gets better, we need you!"? It just doesn't make any sense to me, if you want to complain to the devs on ptr about grinds and nh - that's a different story. However, coming to a community driven forum that generally likes the game and saying, "It's boring, and I don't want to do it", will get you absolutely no where. Where you trying to persuade others to see your opinions and views, or change the mind of others?

IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

[Kragragh]

Why do people even come to these forums to complain? Are they seeking some sort of attention? Looking for someone to tell you, "No, it gets better, we need you!"? It just doesn't make any sense to me, if you want to complain to the devs on ptr about grinds and nh - that's a different story. However, coming to a community driven forum that generally likes the game and saying, "It's boring, and I don't want to do it", will get you absolutely no where. Where you trying to persuade others to see your opinions and views, or change the mind of others?

IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

Why not, people have these types of arguments in real life all the time...people complain and seek attention...this isn't an internet thing, it's a human being thing.

[madmonarch]

Why do people even come to these forums to complain? Are they seeking some sort of attention? Looking for someone to tell you, "No, it gets better, we need you!"? It just doesn't make any sense to me, if you want to complain to the devs on ptr about grinds and nh - that's a different story. However, coming to a community driven forum that generally likes the game and saying, "It's boring, and I don't want to do it", will get you absolutely no where. Where you trying to persuade others to see your opinions and views, or change the mind of others?

IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

It's discussion threads. To discuss opinions. Opinions may be different, and people may discuss them keeping the rules.
Such a big forum must be being watched by Blizzard employees to gather feedback. And OP's complaint is completely makes sense, especially seeing quite a few similar threads each growing to dozens of pages.

[Berengil]

Grinding AP and staying on top of your game is as much a part of being in a raiding guild as turning up to work 5 days a week is a part of having a job. Guilds don't have to put up with people who are "tired" of grinding AP since they can easily recruit someone who's happy to run M+ 20 hours week. Mid-tier semi-hardcore raiders are losing their raid spots, jobs and families over this endless grind. LFR heroes and WQ farmers don't understand this since Blizzard caters to their every whim. They just don't understand what's it like to play in a semi-hardcore raiding guild.

If so, they are stupid beyond belief and don't deserve to have either one.

I do understand "what it's like to play in a semi-hardcore raiding guild". I did for nearly 2 years. Then one day I decided it wasn't worth the effort. Been a happy turbo-casual ever since. LFR, WQs, random heroics, and open-world pvp are what my max toons do now.

Moral of the story: If you can't take the heat, get outta that kitchen. I did.

[Granyala]

Moral of the story: If you can't take the heat, get outta that kitchen. I did.

Aye. It may seem difficult to let go at first, but trust us: you will find other hobbies that are more rewarding and more fun in no time.
It makes 0 sense to "work" in a friggin video game to the point of hating said game or even experiencing detrimental effects in your real life.

After all, there WILL come a time when Blizzard hits the off switch. What then?

[Deleted]

I dont know, I've actually for the first time in my WoW history (end vanilla - mid mop then break till legion) leveled alts at start of expansion and didnt feel "bad" or frustrated about it.
For all my years those have always been my end of expansion things when the content drags out for year or more.

Before, I hated leveling with passion.
Now, after leveling 4 chars to 110 I can say, the grind is really not that bad.
It was terrible in cata and IMO MoP because arbitary blocks like weekly limits on valor points. Or gated vendors. On those expansions I truly felt that you couldnt level alt because it would take weeks to get enough currency to get into whatever dungeon/raid you would want.

Now I just get boosted mythic+ on fresh alt for heroic ilvl, then get in and get enough for LFR ilvl and few days later I get WQs dropping epics like candy.

As for AP? 7.1.5 will help the grind a lot if you only started out.

I mean, what there is to grind exactly? AP? Once you hit the 5% dmg boost the AP becomes pretty much useless bonus seeing how many dungeons it would take to grind that one to max.

Its MEANT to last whole bloody expansion to some players. People have way wrong attidute about "Gotta do it NOW to be BEST on that heroic group!!". No, you bloody dont. You are meant to get there when Tomb of sargares has been out for few months. Thats how blizzard desinged that and you know it

[Nakotsu]

Guess what, everything eventually becomes repetitive if you do it over and over again, all the time, it's either that or running out of content immediately. MMOs have to be designed that way, I've yet to se a developer create a successful MMO that isn't based on repetitiveness. Whether it's an enjoyable grind or not depends on each player, but you can't please everyone.

If a video game is no longer fun for you, then I think it's pretty obvious what the solution is...

I could of sworn back in the day MMO stood for a game that was a set in a world that was always evolving and changing with multiple people in the world... Not the stale state wow is with a world that does not change or progress.
I remember playing a MMO that did this... everyday the world would change. For the life of me I cannot remember if it was Ultima or what but it was a long long time ago maybe the first MMO....

[Deleted]

People just moan as usual... They want instant level 110 with free epics, free legendaries, everything maxed out, just so they can stand idle in SW/Orgri/Dala while posting on MMO-C or Battle.net forums to complain about having nothing to do.

[Granyala]

I mean, what there is to grind exactly? AP? Once you hit the 5% dmg boost the AP becomes pretty much useless bonus seeing how many dungeons it would take to grind that one to max.

Its MEANT to last whole bloody expansion to some players.

I wouldn't go that far, It's meant to last till 7.2 at which point they'll probably introduce more traits.
So the 10% (levels 36-54) are only relevant for Nighthold.

Which means: when do you need stuff like that most? DURING PROGRESSION. You know... when raw output actually matters in facilitating boss kills. So it's no surprise at all that raiders "ERMAGAAWD" it.

To be blunt: putting a flat 10% increase in character power behind such a grind is bad design if you have a competitive community. You are asking people to burn themselves out.
Simple as that.

Sure, it's a cool progression for us casuals. Raiders? Not so much.

[Talvindius]

People just moan as usual... They want instant level 110 with free epics, free legendaries, everything maxed out, just so they can stand idle in SW/Orgri/Dala while posting on MMO-C or Battle.net forums to complain about having nothing to do.

Hey would you cut it out, you're speaking too much truth and it's going to bother the shitposters.

[Deleted]

Intense grinding is fun when it's optional. It took me 386 LK kills to get Invincible, and I loved the weekly chase. 2 key aspects made it fun:
1) Weekly.
2) Entirely optional.

It's still a grind, but with the right checks & balances in place.

Another fun grind? Nat Pagle his waterstrider. I farmed it in a day and a half, spending almost my entire day on fishing. Entirely optional as well, and I had a blast with Netflix/Twitch on my second screen. Grindy as hell, but relaxing and not a mandatory thing to do.

You nailed it man.

I love doing the grindy achievements. Heck I even enjoy pet battles and archeology. I can never get around to doing them though, cause I start feeling bad that I am not farming AP

[TheFirstOnes]

Why are threads like this still even up? Might as well leave every single salt post up then, eh?

Seriously though, dont you get tired of this? Sure, everyone has an opinion over this game, it's what we human's do as a whole. You might hate the game, you might love the game, that's fine. But don't make an entire 7 paragraph thread about it. How about you get out of the fan-fourms, and go onto the WOW fourms, that'll open up blizzard's heart. They won't listen on this site. Or, how about you reply to the current fourms that purpose WAY more detail on problems like such.

There's already an RNG thread, there's already a legendary thread, there are already legion thread's in general. And whining on a fan-thread isn't going to change those problems. It'll give you attention, sure. But, a WOW fourms exist too, ya know..

Blizzard will listen for once if you actually go to their site. Just saying.

[tyng1]

I have no problem with people who have an opinion. I have a problem when I have a feeling people don't want to discuss but to force an opinion on others. That's the reason I don't bother with this guy. From his posts I can tell that discussing anything with him will lead to nothing, so why bother?

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I don't think those are the same groups of people. Isn't it easy to generalize things?

Cant please everybody. different people like different things, so just everyone shutup and play.

[Daffan]

In WoD casuals cried about having nothing to do (hint hint, most of them didn't even set foot in normal raids)

Now in Legion hardcore raiders are crying about having to do casual content (grinding WQs and dungeons for AP)

The difference is that casuals never had to do top-end raiding in order to enjoy their casual... stuff, but raiders in Legion have to do casual stuff in order to enjoy raiding

So stop sneering at raiders because maybe next expansion your dailies and WQs will be locked behind mythic raids

In WoD casuals cried about nothing to do because at the same time they were happily gobbling up all the welfare that made all their content obsolete.

...
"OMG BLIZZ WE NEED MORE RELEVANT CASUAL CONTENT"
5 seconds later
"HAHAHA 715 PVP GEAR from 2v2! Now I'm fully geared!"

[Marrilaife]

So stop sneering at raiders because maybe next expansion your dailies and WQs will be locked behind mythic raids

Don't worry, we've already seen tears of casuals (on blizz forums where they go) about how they cannot progress their profession because they have to go to "mythic" court of stars or something, despite WQ equipping them more than enough for that "challenge". But no hurr durr if I can't press a button so a machine provides me a premade group with tank and healer I can't do it.

It was significant enough Blizzard promised heroic court of stars, arcway and karazhan in a future patch...

You know what would make everyone happy? Completely separate systems that don't intertwine. Raiders don't have to do casual WQ. Casuals don't have to do mythic anything. PVPers don't have to grind pve gear or AP. PVErs don't have to pvp. And so on.

But for some weird reason Blizzard constantly attempts to push players who like content x to do instead content y.

[stigz]

This game has always been a grind. It's just a matter of if the grind itself is fun enough to make you lose track of the fact that actually is a grind.

[ItachiZaku]

One thing I will agree with the OP on, they should have capped AP you can gain per week. Though it wasn't mentioned as such, that's how I read it. Previous expansions limited your "grind" by capping your justice/valor whatever per week, but there isn't a cap on AP so you can stupidly grind and grind and grind. Really, they should have capped it to 2-3 levels per week.

[stomination]

We haven't even gotten to the tier raids and already the flaws are showing. The amount of grind that legion created puts any previous expansions to shame. Even netherwing eggs wasn't this bad. What we have here is an infinite amount of grind.

Artifact power is something that should never have been implemented. It forces players to spend as much time as they can completing the same dungeons over and over.I'm not even going to talk about legendaries but I will say that it adds to the problem immensely. Artifact power forces a raider to log in every 1-3 day to complete all emissary quests and clear the map of artifact power. If you stop at any point you are already behind. Lets not forget the time gate that is artifact knowledge. Past expansions I was happy just logging in at raid time, raiding, and logging off. It kept the game fun for me and everyone else in my guild. Now Blizzard has forced everyone to play.

This causes the game to become stale quickly. I am in a mythic guild that is 7/7 2/3 and we have had people quit due to being burned out.

Casual players may not notice the problem and why should they? They aren't concerned with artifact power and are able to play the game at their own pace. However mythic raiders are experiencing the burnout. Just these last 2 months 10 raiders have left saying that they are burnt out on legion. I don't blame them. Having to run 50+ mythic dungeons a day takes its toll on a person.

This doesn't include needing to farm gold and herbs and AUGMENT RUNES outside of raid which is another 2-4 hours in itself.

On top of all of this the raids themselves are not even worth completing. The fights are boring as hell (mythic odyn) and bring nothing new to the table. What happened to the quality that was Ulduar? Nighthold on the ptr leaves nothing to be desired. The least Blizzard could do was make the raid fights interesting but no.

What we are left with Is the player feeling cheated and unsatisfied. I'm staring at 3 million more artifact power until my next trait and I can't help but feeling like I just don't care about this anymore.

Its not fun. Its not satisfying. Its a waste of time.

This just in

World of Warcraft has always been a grind game. Not as bad as some but it has always been a grind game.

[thilicen]

Give me an expansion that offers new raids every two months, new dungeons every 3 weeks, continously adding quests every reset. And keeping the need for doing anything the fuck out or I shall whine and cry like a bitch about how I have to actually play the game to get anywhere in it.

[DisposableHero]

The grind is the inevitable consequence of always having something meaningful to primary character progress to do. If you can progress your character meaningfully 24/7/365, then you will have to play 24/7/365 to complete on character progression with the players who do that.