7.1.5 shadow nerf!

[davesignal]

Or the people who can't handle the APM requirements without having wrist spasms because this game is over ten fucking years old and RSI is a thing.

[Helander]

Or the people who can't handle the APM requirements without having wrist spasms because this game is over ten fucking years old and RSI is a thing.

then go play paladin? Like seriously don't use "my APM sucks" as an excuse. It doesn't add anything to the discussion.

With that being said, I do like how they are making other specs viable for shadow. S2M is a counterintuitive choice for m+, and I can't wait to see how shadow crash plays out in big AOE situations.

[Ilir]

What does APM mean ?

cheers

[Deleted]

What does APM mean ?

cheers

Actions per minute.

[davesignal]

then go play paladin? Like seriously don't use "my APM sucks" as an excuse. It doesn't add anything to the discussion.

With that being said, I do like how they are making other specs viable for shadow. S2M is a counterintuitive choice for m+, and I can't wait to see how shadow crash plays out in big AOE situations.

Hey, fuck you buddy.

I've been playing this spec for eight fucking years. I've been playing for much longer than Surrender to Madness has been a thing, and I play the spec just fine without using that abortive, ill-thought out piece of design.

It adds something to the discussion because, holy shit, the game is played by more than just 19 year old college students chugging Red Bulls and frittering away their tuition money. There is room in the game for specializations that have a naturally high APM requirement, same as there are for ones that require a lot of movement, or strict resource management, or anything.

But turning an existing spec into that, and making it mandatory (which Surrender to Madness was), is a shit move. That definitely has merit as discussion.

[Onikaroshi]

Hey, fuck you buddy.

I've been playing this spec for eight fucking years. I've been playing for much longer than Surrender to Madness has been a thing, and I play the spec just fine without using that abortive, ill-thought out piece of design.

It adds something to the discussion because, holy shit, the game is played by more than just 19 year old college students chugging Red Bulls and frittering away their tuition money. There is room in the game for specializations that have a naturally high APM requirement, same as there are for ones that require a lot of movement, or strict resource management, or anything.

But turning an existing spec into that, and making it mandatory (which Surrender to Madness was), is a shit move. That definitely has merit as discussion.

Well said, not to mention throwing away 500+ gold a PULL just to be competitive ... ugh... glad it may not be top dog.

[tiptopmemer]

then go play paladin? Like seriously don't use "my APM sucks" as an excuse. It doesn't add anything to the discussion.

With that being said, I do like how they are making other specs viable for shadow. S2M is a counterintuitive choice for m+, and I can't wait to see how shadow crash plays out in big AOE situations.

Ive been a shadow priest since vanilla, the only time ive stopped playing is mop and half of wod, should i reroll too?

S2M is a cool idea by idiot devs

[Helander]

All I'm reading in this post is "I suck at wow and want to bitch but have no actual constructive opinion to voice other than my baby rage"

[Zirhark]

I'm super excited for Shadow crash to be a viable lvl 100 talent, it's a pretty sweet spell.

[MasterHamster]

Blizzard can't make a talent like S2M work together with everything else in WoW. For years and years now they've phased out things that scales out of control, and the only reason S2M is still in the game is because they really, really don't want to go against the "class fantasy", coupled with the fact that S2M is mechanically a very interesting cooldown compared to pretty much every other dps cd in-game.

However, unless S2M is removed soon enough, Shadow will find itself in a neverending spiral of gradual nerfs and minor redesigns until they are made very weak with or without S2M. They keep playing around with insanity generation, buffs or nerfs here and there, but never conceding that a scaling all-in talent doesn't fit with their (dull) design philosophy where things are generally linear, and never exponential.

In short, S2M will always be either weak or overpowered in practice, and can never be brought in line without some sort of cap on stacks.

I think it's very unfortunate because I love Shadow, the gameplay and feel of the spec, but Shadow in Legion will find themselves in an endless limbo of devs looking themselves blind at S2M, and it won't survive to the next expansion. But to give them credit, they have finally come to the conclusion that Mind Sear is awful as they, somehow, have for many years been unable to find a reasonable fix to Shadow short-term AoE because "We don't want people using Mind Sear on single target".

[Ilir]

All I'm reading in this post is "I suck at wow and want to bitch but have no actual constructive opinion to voice other than my baby rage"

All we saw from your posts is that you're an idiot that lacks any sort of knowledge.

StM is known for being terrible for the game and shadow. It being OP doesn't mean it's a good thing for shadow. It should have never made it out of alpha nor beta but they didn't listen to the players because of "fantasy !!" and here we stand. If it stays too strong it will get nerfed again or they will nerf the spec as a whole.

[Deleted]

The only reason S2M isn't gone is because pretty much all shadow priests in the world would not be happy about it. Although deep inside they know that there's only two outcomes when it comes to balancing S2M... It's either going to be too strong or too weak. I think blizzard finally figured it out.

I'm fairly sure the talent will be gone in 7.2 though.

- - - Updated - - -

Blizzard can't make a talent like S2M work together with everything else in WoW. For years and years now they've phased out things that scales out of control, and the only reason S2M is still in the game is because they really, really don't want to go against the "class fantasy", coupled with the fact that S2M is mechanically a very interesting cooldown compared to pretty much every other dps cd in-game.

However, unless S2M is removed soon enough, Shadow will find itself in a neverending spiral of gradual nerfs and minor redesigns until they are made very weak with or without S2M. They keep playing around with insanity generation, buffs or nerfs here and there, but never conceding that a scaling all-in talent doesn't fit with their (dull) design philosophy where things are generally linear, and never exponential.

In short, S2M will always be either weak or overpowered in practice, and can never be brought in line without some sort of cap on stacks.

I think it's very unfortunate because I love Shadow, the gameplay and feel of the spec, but Shadow in Legion will find themselves in an endless limbo of devs looking themselves blind at S2M, and it won't survive to the next expansion. But to give them credit, they have finally come to the conclusion that Mind Sear is awful as they, somehow, have for many years been unable to find a reasonable fix to Shadow short-term AoE because "We don't want people using Mind Sear on single target".

Mind sear worked fine in siege, it did a lot of damage, but it was only worth using on 2 targets or more.

I think their reasoning is that they want dots to deal the damage and mindsear to be a filler.

In siege in stacked aoe situations you'd just mind sear and wouldn't really bother with dots.

[Mamut]

Pretty much the only people who wants s2m gone is the people who use LOTV instead or are too bad to consistently reach 3rd torrent in a boss environment.

Hopefully nighthold gear will make it as viable as it is today.

Do you really think S2M in its current form is not broken? Honest question here. Because if you consider current shadow as only "viable" when in logs first 200 positions are shadow priests in 99,9% cases, and they outdps everyone by 200-300k then I dont know how look broken spec in your eyes.

[Deleted]

s2m is a bit overrated, almost everyone not playing shadow and talking about s2m are clueless morons that think you can just press a button and win dps race by far. Its funny because such comments usually come from people playing mages/locks that are actually used being OP for years and winnin the dps race with very little effort.
S2M indeed is amazing, if you time it perfectly, and have no bad luck at all (fears, mcs, targetted by annoying abilities, and such). And of course it's much easier to look at those logs where shadow outperforms everyone than the thousands of logs where shadow is much lower.

S2M is TOO rewarding for an awesome player and too harsh for the mass of players, if they limited the stacks to something like 80 they probably would have fixed the whining of morons.

[Deja Thoris]

Do you really think S2M in its current form is not broken? Honest question here. Because if you consider current shadow as only "viable" when in logs first 200 positions are shadow priests in 99,9% cases, and they outdps everyone by 200-300k then I dont know how look broken spec in your eyes.

People can't look at stuff objectively. Especially when it comes to their own class.

[Helander]

Do you really think S2M in its current form is not broken? Honest question here. Because if you consider current shadow as only "viable" when in logs first 200 positions are shadow priests in 99,9% cases, and they outdps everyone by 200-300k then I dont know how look broken spec in your eyes.

yea but you fail to remember that the logs you are looking at are from people who are significantly more skilled than 99.99% of the player base, and the small skill advantage they possess is extrapolated heavily due to s2m. I personally do not think s2m for the majority of players is OP in any way, however I do not like that it is the only viable raiding talent choice, and that's why I'm stoked for 7.1.5.

plus everyone bitching cant even get to their third void torrent anyways xD

[Ilir]

STM is broken.

Stop deluding yourself.

[danieltang34]

S2M was too strong and needed a nerf for sure but I liked the playstyle a lot
a base damage buff + MH nerf would have been a better change imo, i dont think rotation/mechanic changes were asked for

[Mamut]

yea but you fail to remember that the logs you are looking at are from people who are significantly more skilled than 99.99% of the player base, and the small skill advantage they possess is extrapolated heavily due to s2m. I personally do not think s2m for the majority of players is OP in any way, however I do not like that it is the only viable raiding talent choice, and that's why I'm stoked for 7.1.5.

plus everyone bitching cant even get to their third void torrent anyways xD

So only shadow priests have skilled players and thats why noone from other classes can come even close to them?

[Reyuna]

So only shadow priests have skilled players and thats why noone from other classes can come even close to them?

Indeed. Looking forward to seeing Shadow being slapped down a few pegs.