infinite daily quests, infinite dungeons

[Deleted]

Blizzard is not responsible for your self restraint, or lack thereof.

Are you certain about that? You understand how Skinner box applies to humans, right?

[WintersLegion]

I have done you a favor and highlighted the part of your OP that is not a factual statement but a false reality created by you to validate your criticism of what is a great expansion.

You don't HAVE to. You are not being FORCED to. Take a deep breath. You're going to be fine.

No you don't understand it's just like when going to a buffett you have to eat every single piece of food they have you can't just eat your fill and stop their.

[tyrlaan]

I feel like I'm a hamster on the wheel.

If it was a player driven mmo, it would be fine because I chose to get on the wheel. But, in Legion basically I'm forced to be on the wheel by Blizz so that I can grind AP and legendaries and be relevant in mythic raiding.

Actually, Blizzard isn't forcing you do to anything. It's player driven, which you are fine with, so we're all good!

[melodramocracy]

Are you certain about that? You understand how Skinner box applies to humans, right?

I'm absolutely certain of it. The problem now isn't much different than it ever was before, with the exception that when players used to hit that 'nothing to do' feeling on their main, they'd create alts and do it all over again. Often, armies of them. There might be an individual perception that this was required on some level, but really it boils down to just wanting to play because someone enjoys it.

The only difference now is that there's less of an excuse for players to create alts.

[Deleted]

I'm absolutely certain of it. The problem now isn't much different than it ever was before, with the exception that when players used to hit that 'nothing to do' feeling on their main, they'd create alts and do it all over again. Often, armies of them. There might be an individual perception that this was required on some level, but really it boils down to just wanting to play because someone enjoys it.

The only difference now is that there's less of an excuse for players to create alts.

To be honest, i was trying to get at why you think its a lack of self control from the op, rather than him being a victim to psychological exploitation by deliberately basing gameplay around Skinner box mechanics, to which the average human is extremely susceptible.

I'm not trolling or trying to 'you' in particular - this question applies to a lot of people criticizing the op.

[Deleted]

Sometimes I wonder how we survived in vanilla without ilvl... the most stupid thing in wow together with BoP gear... destroys friendlyness and creates wannebe elitism.

[Tanro]

Well, apparently they have some burly guy with a whip and a hood that beats them if they don't run 20 or 30 Mythic pluses every day, so they feel "obligated" or some such BS.

Some try hards, and try hard guilds think they are top 50 world progression, when in fact they probably aren't even top 50 on their server. Honestly I don't get it. 20 players playing well don't need a fully unlocked artifact on every toon to clear content. They aren't the guild that is gonna No Life mythic until they solve the puzzle or just make the boss fall over finally. When you are getting bosses down to 5% in mythic every little bit matters. When you are dieing to mechanics on Heroic or even Flex then you still need to worry about gittin gud and not worry about grinding AP.

Figuring out positioning, Know what each boss can and will do and when, know where to move, when to move, how to move back, where you are gonna stand, when you are gonna pop CDs, how to deal with another player being in your spot, how to recover a small misplay, etc. That all matters more than no lifeing the AP system.

[Ghrog]

Some try hards, and try hard guilds think they are top 50 world progression, when in fact they probably aren't even top 50 on their server. Honestly I don't get it. 20 players playing well don't need a fully unlocked artifact on every toon to clear content. They aren't the guild that is gonna No Life mythic until they solve the puzzle or just make the boss fall over finally. When you are getting bosses down to 5% in mythic every little bit matters. When you are dieing to mechanics on Heroic or even Flex then you still need to worry about gittin gud and not worry about grinding AP.

Figuring out positioning, Know what each boss can and will do and when, know where to move, when to move, how to move back, where you are gonna stand, when you are gonna pop CDs, how to deal with another player being in your spot, how to recover a small misplay, etc. That all matters more than no lifeing the AP system.

Exactly! Ask any top end raider and they will tell you the same. Skill trumps gear any and every time with such slim margins as is provided by traits past 35. I'm in the top 4 guild (#1 horde) on our server and am our #1 DPS, but I recognize that we aren't a top 50 (or even a top 500) guild and feel no need to go nuts. I have 35 ranks in my main spec weapon (Doomhammer) and usually end up topping the charts on any boss fight that isn't cancer for my spec (Il'Gynoth, I'm looking at you) parsing in the top 15% and other players are sitting there with 43, 44, or 45 ranks in their weapons. I don't say this to toot my own horn, (because I'm shite compared to those guys in those top 50 or even top 500 guilds) but to make the point that knowing your shit (not even great, just capable of doing your job) is the #1 decider of how well you do in a raid.

[Deleted]

The thing is I didnt need to do this (for some degree) before. You had the best gear from raiding and the cap existed to not make such big differences between people who had and hadnt have time. Now differences are so big that you can't even think to join the game at this moment and play with your friends. Legendary ring was shitty, as well as this AP grinding. Now you have to put Legendaries on top of that and some titanforged rng bull crap, like 890 Baton trinket. Warcraftlogs are not a good indicator of skill anymore. At this point it's mostly padding anyway.

Anyway, 20 points = 10% more dmg. That's massive.

[MoanaLisa]

I feel like I'm a hamster on the wheel.

If it was a player driven mmo, it would be fine because I chose to get on the wheel. But, in Legion basically I'm forced to be on the wheel by Blizz so that I can grind AP and legendaries and be relevant in mythic raiding.

Blizzard isn't forcing you to do anything. Don't be weak-minded. You're not a hamster. God, so many submissives here.

[yuca247]

which means the one at fault is mythic raiding scene so best course of action would be removal of mythic raids - i approve

I know this was probably tongue in cheek but think about it. The mythic raid scene, specifically the very top elite guilds and of those the elite of the elite going for world firsts are not even a half percent of the player population. So much of developer's time spent creating and balancing content consumed by so few. Plus those guys are delusional as evidenced by the post a few weeks ago by serenity? method? or both can't remember.

[kamuimac]

Sometimes I wonder how we survived in vanilla without ilvl... the most stupid thing in wow together with BoP gear... destroys friendlyness and creates wannebe elitism.

very simple - raids were tu ed that way that you could carry 20 afk people and so were dungeons that with nowadays skills you could 3 man it.

I know this was probably tongue in cheek but think about it.

why would it be ? mythic + dungeons proved instantly and brutaly that next to nobody want to do mythic raids and its pure waste of time to tune them and release them .
cut mythic raiding bring in its place 2-3 dungeons every 2-3 months and boom playerbase woudl rejoice and we will cut out most toxic and unnesesary elements from game in 1 simple move.

[Doffen]

TLDR: You don't have to be a mythic raider to enjoy competing with others at your own level. Infinitely grindable resources hurts competition at all levels unless the competition is just a question of who can grind the most.

Massive wall of text hit you for Titanforged Mana Burst Leggings. Thank god you added a TLDR

Sorry, I don't mean to be rude

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

You can get Ap and legendaries from raiding as well.
No reason to do Mythic+ if you want.
I've done a few hundred, but haven't done any in weeks. I'm 893 equipped with 2 legendaries and 36 points in my main weapon.

[Super Kami Dende]

Sometimes I wonder how we survived in vanilla without ilvl... the most stupid thing in wow together with BoP gear... destroys friendlyness and creates wannebe elitism.

Ilvl was in Vanilla.. How do you think Stat budgets worked?

[Brewhan]

I feel like I'm a hamster on the wheel.

If it was a player driven mmo, it would be fine because I chose to get on the wheel. But, in Legion basically I'm forced to be on the wheel by Blizz so that I can grind AP and legendaries and be relevant in mythic raiding.

you're finally seeing the skinner box for what it is. Always been like this but now its the biggest skinner box ever with the a RNG amount of food from pulling that lever! you might get a huge piece of food or a little crumb... keep trying to pull that lever lil rat boy.

[Sierra85]

Same thread, same content, different poster.

it's almost as if 6million+ people are all sharing a common experience?