[HOLY] Holy Sh*t!: Legion Edition

[Timadin]

There is no "definitive answer". Some fights favor JoL, some favor SW.

I assume his is without the ring. Once one has the legendary ring JoL seems almost mandatory.

[MCC]

I assume his is without the ring. Once one has the legendary ring JoL seems almost mandatory.

Uh... no. The ring has nothing to do with it. JoL requires you to judge on cooldown as long as the enire raid takes damage. The ring requires you to judge when there are 3-4 people with a lot of health missing. These requirements don't always overlap.

[EzG]

Uh... no. The ring has nothing to do with it. JoL requires you to judge on cooldown as long as the enire raid takes damage. The ring requires you to judge when there are 3-4 people with a lot of health missing. These requirements don't always overlap.

Don't be ridiculous of course the ring has something to do with it. Not only are people almost always taking damage in some way on current bosses, JoL is a nice passive where SW tends to overheal unless you are literally carrying your entire raid to top off and need the immense amount of healing. JoL and ring work hand in hand in the fact that you could still line up JoL with minimal healing loss from delay, and get the 20% burst you may need. You almost always have something to heal within that time frame. Even delaying JoL by a couple seconds isn't incredibly crazy of a loss and likely still pulls ahead of what SW would do.

[Deleted]

JOL is also not likely to save anybody in your raid, but the reduced Holy Shock cooldown from SW definitely will. This is actually the stronger part of the SW talent.

[Rorschachs]

JOL is also not likely to save anybody in your raid, but the reduced Holy Shock cooldown from SW definitely will. This is actually the stronger part of the SW talent.

By that logic resto druids shouldn't exist

[Timadin]

JOL is also not likely to save anybody in your raid, but the reduced Holy Shock cooldown from SW definitely will. This is actually the stronger part of the SW talent.

This is a flawed argument. It might not take someone from 10% to 100% in one holy shock but the healing it provides can absolutely save someone from dying. Massive spot heals are not the only useful heals in a raid.

[MCC]

Don't be ridiculous of course the ring has something to do with it. Not only are people almost always taking damage in some way on current bosses, JoL is a nice passive where SW tends to overheal unless you are literally carrying your entire raid to top off and need the immense amount of healing. JoL and ring work hand in hand in the fact that you could still line up JoL with minimal healing loss from delay, and get the 20% burst you may need. You almost always have something to heal within that time frame. Even delaying JoL by a couple seconds isn't incredibly crazy of a loss and likely still pulls ahead of what SW would do.

Timadin's argument was that the ring makes JoL mandatory. My point is that it does not: the ring and JoL do have some synergy, but it's not nearly as overwhelming as he seems to think.

As far as the SW overheal argument goes... it depends. It can be an overkill, sure. On the other hand, being able to dish out 20-25M healing over 8 seconds or so means you can mitigate some very, very dangerous mechanics all by yourself. This is extremely valuable if the encounter has this kind of damage. If not, well... JoL is a nice fallback talent.

I guess the best way I can put it is this: JoL is your default choice unless encounter mechanics allow SW to shine, in which case you go SW. Your ring does not really affect this decision. Fair enough?

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JOL is also not likely to save anybody in your raid, but the reduced Holy Shock cooldown from SW definitely will. This is actually the stronger part of the SW talent.

Oh, it can save people under the right circumstances. Imagine a fight with constantly ticking AoE (Nythendra) or periodic mini-bursts (Odyn). JoL will offset that damage and thus keep raid health away from the danger zone.

[fabonaut]

I have a question regarding the upcoming changes to legendaries.

I have Iltherendi, Uther's Guard and Sephuz's Secret.

Currently I am using Iltherendi and Uther's Guard, but I am lacking a good amount of crit (hovering around 40-42% right now). After 7.1.5, do you think the best choice for me would be to use Iltherendi and Sephuz's Secret? I do have an 880 nibble ring though. Can't really decide what the best choice here is. The amount of crit on Sephuz's is insane, but it's "just" a 30 ilvl increase over my current ring. Any thoughts?

[MCC]

I have a question regarding the upcoming changes to legendaries.

I have Iltherendi, Uther's Guard and Sephuz's Secret.

Currently I am using Iltherendi and Uther's Guard, but I am lacking a good amount of crit (hovering around 40-42% right now). After 7.1.5, do you think the best choice for me would be to use Iltherendi and Sephuz's Secret? I do have an 880 nibble ring though. Can't really decide what the best choice here is. The amount of crit on Sephuz's is insane, but it's "just" a 30 ilvl increase over my current ring. Any thoughts?

Keep in mind that the wrist is your lowest stat budget slot, so your Uther's Guard contributes less to your overall power than other legendaries. Sephuz is probably a better choice.

[Donatist]

Do we count as melee on Guarm?

[Hawg]

Keep in mind that the wrist is your lowest stat budget slot, so your Uther's Guard contributes less to your overall power than other legendaries. Sephuz is probably a better choice.

Have they changed the slot modifiers? It used to be this (which would give wrists and rings the same):


Gear Piece SlotMod
Head, Chest, Legs, 2H Weapon 1.00
Shoulder, Hands, Waist, Feet 0.75 (3/4)
Wrist, Neck, Back, Finger, Off-hand/Shield 0.5625 (9/16)
1H weapon 0.4219 (27/64)
Ranged 0.3164 (81/256)

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Item_level

[AtomicT]

what was the reason behind the nerf to holy shock damage and 2P set from 10% crit to 5% crit?

[magiee]

so i got the legendary belt im thinking of running SW over JOL due to wings being longer and the ehalin it will give is way more in that duration... i see that jol will be good but i think with the belt takin SW will be better it may over heal more than jol but it deff keep everyone at 100% hp longer than a jol will even if that means my oh goes higher at least my raid is at 100% and my other healers can slow down on the casts due to it

[EzG]

what was the reason behind the nerf to holy shock damage and 2P set from 10% crit to 5% crit?

1. Holy dps is ridiculous, and the 2p nerf was actually discovered quite awhile ago. I suppose they are doing this as it's easy enough to get to 40% crit to then hit the soft cap. Who knows.

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so i got the legendary belt im thinking of running SW over JOL due to wings being longer and the ehalin it will give is way more in that duration... i see that jol will be good but i think with the belt takin SW will be better it may over heal more than jol but it deff keep everyone at 100% hp longer than a jol will even if that means my oh goes higher at least my raid is at 100% and my other healers can slow down on the casts due to it

In most situations it depends on the boss and raid. Sure the belt will make SW heal for even more absurd overhealing than it already does but maybe you raid actually needs it or the fight you are on doesn't favor JoL because of excessive adds or raid splitting on targets or whatever be the reason. There are some fights on NH that will likely favor SW just by the nature of the fight, but not a lot.

[Hawg]

what was the reason behind the nerf to holy shock damage and 2P set from 10% crit to 5% crit?

Shockadin has historically never lasted long... Im not sure why Blizzard always kills it..pve, pvp? This is a sad nerf though in terms of fun gameplay.

[Amantino]

1. Holy dps is ridiculous, and the 2p nerf was actually discovered quite awhile ago. I suppose they are doing this as it's easy enough to get to 40% crit to then hit the soft cap. Who knows.

Paladin damage is over the top. On ~30 second fights I beat a lot of mains from my guild. Even in raid I've outdps'ed a lot of mains,
But at the same time, druids does more damage and healing, on top of having vortex and battle res. Yet they remain untouched. They've activly let Paladins been like this since alpha, and specifically said thats what they want. It's what we're supposed to bring to Mythic+; damage. Also they want healers to level and quest as healers, unless they went away from that with me missing it.

2p is a pretty big nerf, and I don't really see why they'd do so. Sure, our 2P was good, but was it that good? But I don't do raid testing, so my opinion of this lacks backbone. I'm sure someone from a top guild that did raid testing can share a more accurate opinion.

[fabonaut]

Keep in mind that the wrist is your lowest stat budget slot, so your Uther's Guard contributes less to your overall power than other legendaries. Sephuz is probably a better choice.

Yes, I am using Sephuz. Thanks for the advice!

[trm90]

Paladin damage is over the top. On ~30 second fights I beat a lot of mains from my guild. Even in raid I've outdps'ed a lot of mains,
But at the same time, druids does more damage and healing, on top of having vortex and battle res. Yet they remain untouched. They've activly let Paladins been like this since alpha, and specifically said thats what they want. It's what we're supposed to bring to Mythic+; damage. Also they want healers to level and quest as healers, unless they went away from that with me missing it.

2p is a pretty big nerf, and I don't really see why they'd do so. Sure, our 2P was good, but was it that good? But I don't do raid testing, so my opinion of this lacks backbone. I'm sure someone from a top guild that did raid testing can share a more accurate opinion.

Agreed on the resto druid points, but to be fair (in M12+) our utility, burst heals, and tankiness are good enough reasons to bring us to M+. Our deeps was really useful in lower M+ 3-chest runs, sure, but it was definitely out of control. I don't think questing should be an issue either, Judgment + HS + CS - in a 3 second window - are usually enough to kill most mobs, I wouldn't mind a small Consecration buff tho...

I'm a little sad about our 2 piece mostly because the sooner we hit crit cap = the sooner we can start targeting Mastery/Vers but meh, even after the secondary stat reduction it's not too hard to hit high crit on HS anyway

[wink-]

I'm more bummed about the 20% damage nerf to Holy Shock than the 5% crit on the 2p! Thankfully we only have shoulders in they way of our tier sets unlike our protection spec!

[Talby]

I'm more bummed about the 20% damage nerf to Holy Shock than the 5% crit on the 2p! Thankfully we only have shoulders in they way of our tier sets unlike our protection spec!

Implying you were lucky enough to get the shoulders. My luck is garbage and I have the bracers + boots, thank god they weren't sephuz or prydaz.. At least I got the chains as my third legendary, just waiting for the patch to drop my bracers (only boots I have to replace them are 660 compared to 890s unless I get a lucky drop soon.)