7.1.5 any chance Unholy will pass Frost?

[Necropotence]

dude bro the AMS cloak is soooooooo good. not for damge but from a utility perspective its amazing. and Sephuz's is actually super good if you can get it to proc. on PTR right now death grip procs it even if the target is immune. so DK's can proc it literally on CD.

It was also proccing off spell interrupts regardless of whether or not anything was interrupted, but both of these have been fixed in the current build I believe.

[Zensunni]

dude bro the AMS cloak is soooooooo good. not for damge but from a utility perspective its amazing. and Sephuz's is actually super good if you can get it to proc. on PTR right now death grip procs it even if the target is immune. so DK's can proc it literally on CD.

The AMS cloak is so bad it's insulting. It doesn't even increase AMS's effect, meaning all it does is give you what? A bigger window in which to be bad? Personally, I know the mechanics of the bosses I'm fighting perfectly, and I can pop AMS a fraction of a second before a mechanic I want to nullify for the healers, or ignore for a DPS gain. I don't need an extra 5 seconds or w/e to do this.

The AMS cloak is categorically useless, nothing but a stat stick, and arguably the worst leg a DK can get as it doesn't do anything.

[Fynzie]

dude bro the AMS cloak is soooooooo good. not for damge but from a utility perspective its amazing

I'd rather have a Blood Legendary than this shit

[Tanro]

This is exactly what scares me aswell, i've always found Unholy to be the more fun spec to play, and frost to be rather boring in comparison, hopefully they fix our beloved spec at next patch, so we all don't have to re-spec frost in the coming nighthold patch

Hopefully Not, not until they make so you can Play unholy without a pet..... Fucking hate pet classes

[Deleted]

I'm Unholy and always have been. Way I see it is unless you're doing bleeding edge top 10 Mythic raiding, there's really no need to min-max to the extreme. Stick to what you enjoy, not what nets you the most dps.

In most Mythic+ dungeons I'm at the top of the meters, pretty nice contests with Havoc DH's sometimes.

+1

I have all respect for UH's who just didnt reroll or changed spec.

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Not sure why people respond with stuff like this, is neither good or useful advice. Whether you're top 10 or not if you're doing any progression with a guild you're going to want to be bringing as much dps to the table as you can, otherwise you're just making life harder for your guild. I wouldn't want to be that guy in guild that sits there playing a spec that they know is the lower of the two options when my guild is wiping to enrage timers.



Back on topic I am interested in seeing how a CS build goes. When the legion changes were announced I was excited at the prospect of dealing a decent amount of damage while out of else range, kind of made the terrible mobility options a little easier to swallow. Wondering if there will be a make or break legendary for a CS build that boosts its viability. Hopefully nothing to the extent to which the bracers are required for uh currently.

Let me tell you something then:

If you WANT TO BRING THE BEST TO YOUR RAID, then you will have 2-3 different classes to go(not specs, but CLASSES). You will play the FOTM classes.

If your guild is respectable, they will already have 3-5 other people to replace you in order to overcome a fight(with different classes if that what it takes).

If any of that is not true, then your only responsibility is, to play something you truely enjoy. And by time, people will get throu the content.

Just move on with that retarded excuse for being loser and keep rerolling. Again, unless you play with a bleeding edge guild.

[Deleted]

+1

I have all respect for UH's who just didnt reroll or changed spec.

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Let me tell you something then:

If you WANT TO BRING THE BEST TO YOUR RAID, then you will have 2-3 different classes to go(not specs, but CLASSES). You will play the FOTM classes.

If your guild is respectable, they will already have 3-5 other people to replace you in order to overcome a fight(with different classes if that what it takes).

If any of that is not true, then your only responsibility is, to play something you truely enjoy. And by time, people will get throu the content.

Just move on with that retarded excuse for being loser and keep rerolling. Again, unless you play with a bleeding edge guild.

Changing spec has always been part of WoW's gameplay design, even more so with DK's and how they were introduced (we could dps or tank with all 3 specs thanks to presences).

I was Blood dps when WOTLK first launched and have played Unholy, Frost during ICC progression.

The class has changed so dramatically over the years that we've had no choice in some cases to swap even when raiding at a lower level.

Even pugs and casual raids have minimum dps requirements, which in some cases can be met by 'changing' back into a spec that was once played long ago.

I've personally switched from Unholy to Frost not only because it performs better but due to it's utility (freezing mobs in m+). Back in WoD, I was reluctant to play UH but when I made the switch I loved it.

Making spec changes to improve performance or provide utility is part of the game (I even tank m+ up to 12, relunctantly) and shouldn't be viewed as a traitorous or 'try hard' act.

[Deleted]

Hopefully Not, not until they make so you can Play unholy without a pet..... Fucking hate pet classes

Unholy pet needs almost zero manangement.

[Tanro]

Unholy pet needs almost zero manangement.

Its there isn't it? Do you not still have to transform it and shit? I don't care about what something else is doing. I care about what I am doing. Same reason I never liked hunters until they finally made it so you could play without a pet.

Locks and Hunters get to play without a pet these days. Why not Unholy?

Honestly it needs to be a bit a closer. But if unholy is suddenly 15% or 20% better than frost that is no bueno.

[Deleted]

I do see where you ard coming from - i always wanted a petless hunter. I like my lock pet being able to tank.

For unholy's pet, yes you need to press a button to empower him but you can really just think of it as a temp dps boost.

Yes there is far far more to the pet (using his stun to proc legendary ring, etc) but its generally not much effort.

A talent allowing petless unholy would be interesting but probably hard to balance. Its not like bliz are about to be awarded the Nobel Prize for services to class balance anytime soon

[Cosmic Janitor]

Its there isn't it? Do you not still have to transform it and shit? I don't care about what something else is doing. I care about what I am doing. Same reason I never liked hunters until they finally made it so you could play without a pet.

Locks and Hunters get to play without a pet these days. Why not Unholy?

Honestly it needs to be a bit a closer. But if unholy is suddenly 15% or 20% better than frost that is no bueno.

Because Unholy is a spec and not a class. Their respective pet specs also have pets and the ones that don't have pets have the option to get rid of them. Unholy is our pet spec, hence why you are stuck with it.

[Protean]

Its there isn't it? Do you not still have to transform it and shit? I don't care about what something else is doing. I care about what I am doing. Same reason I never liked hunters until they finally made it so you could play without a pet.

Locks and Hunters get to play without a pet these days. Why not Unholy?

Honestly it needs to be a bit a closer. But if unholy is suddenly 15% or 20% better than frost that is no bueno.

Pet's are literally just dots. If you can manage a dot you can manage a pet.

[Raiz]

Its there isn't it? Do you not still have to transform it and shit? I don't care about what something else is doing. I care about what I am doing. Same reason I never liked hunters until they finally made it so you could play without a pet.

Locks and Hunters get to play without a pet these days. Why not Unholy?

Honestly it needs to be a bit a closer. But if unholy is suddenly 15% or 20% better than frost that is no bueno.

How is that different from casting a spell ? You basically have nothing to do except maybe recast them whenever they die ? There must be some weak aura string to tell you if your pet is dead. Let them assist you and they'll hit whatever your targeting in combat.

[Yhcti]

Having Sindragosa's Fury on a 2m30s cool down is going to be pretty insane considering it does 2000% atk power, looked at a log on MoS for the top Frost DK and on first boss his top damage was SF (49.9m) and it only cast once, Obviously this was mass AoE, but imagine having that double the amount of time... Is it only me who finds this crazy strong? I'm actually extremely excited to gear my Frost DK to hopefully get this.

[Acidbaron]

Unholy pet needs almost zero manangement.

In combat PvE, not a whole lot if you ignore the hook ability. Out of combat PvE plenty of times you need to watch your pet since it likes to do whatever it likes and pull mobs, this sometimes even goes for in combat.

For PvP it's a whole different game, you have things on auto use and you might as wel just stop thinking you'll get far in PvP, since you won't as it's a strong utility there.

In any case all pets in this game require little in combat management, at most you buff it in one way or another you hardly ever to never force it to go on another target as wow pet pathing, ai and reaction time have always been rather good compared to other mmo's out there.

[Deleted]

In combat PvE, not a whole lot if you ignore the hook ability. Out of combat PvE plenty of times you need to watch your pet since it likes to do whatever it likes and pull mobs, this sometimes even goes for in combat.

For PvP it's a whole different game, you have things on auto use and you might as wel just stop thinking you'll get far in PvP, since you won't as it's a strong utility there.

In any case all pets in this game require little in combat management, at most you buff it in one way or another you hardly ever to never force it to go on another target as wow pet pathing, ai and reaction time have always been rather good compared to other mmo's out there.

Yeah i was only referring to pve. Pvp im sure is a different matter.

[iky43210]

Pet needs a bit of management if you run infected claw. For some reason my pet would always stand in the shittiest place and only be in range to apply half the group

Always have to tell it to go to the center of adds for maximum applications.

[Maxweii]

Ebon Fever, Blighted Rune Weapon, Clawing Shadows, Necrosis, and Defile.

Completely different playstyle than castigator UH, as most of your damage is CS and DC. Festering Strike is never used outside of wound building and at above 3 runes. The core damage is in the CS multipliers, Mastery and Necrosis are nuts together. The spec becomes less about Wounds, and more about weaving death coils and hitting like a fucking truck with Necrosis empowered Claws. Though Wounds are still a core damage aspect, they take the back seat (as without SS+castigator you pop a flat 1 as opposed to 1-3 rng), and you generally hover between 1 and 4, only going higher to Apoc (which now maxes at 6 wounds).

Blighted rune weapon is an interesting one. I did some maths on it before the prt pustulent pustules nerf, and it was slightly more efficient, as you could allocate more runes to CS and not FS. It gives you 10 wounds per minute without spending runes on a shitty physical damage ability, allowing us to do more shadow damage, therefore aming mastery's value. The PP nerf cemented my theory and now BRW blows PP out of the water. TLDR, wounds have value, festering strike doesn't.

70%+ shadow damage contribution makes this build hyperscale on mastery (live values at .91 of str per point, with changes i anticipate it within .05 of live values give or take). Secondary priority is up in the air, and will be mast>crit or mast>haste, both have merits and it will depend. Crit will likely be stronger for ST, while haste will allow more GCDs and runes in your defile and more outbreak ticks, making haste better for aoe. I personally think both will end up simming closely, but Haste will pull ahead leaps and bounds in practice, as the utility a higher rune count and a lower gcd offers is so much better in actual fights than having a chance to hit harder.

Spec does all damage outside of melee hits, pet damage, and festering strike at 30 yard range, and you have crazy strong aoe burst at said range. It's extremely adaptable and does reliable single target damage with strong burst aoe, although it is generally on the weaker side on sustained aoe and cleave. It will wreck face in nighthold, as its toolkit plays nicely with a lot of fights.

I'm an almost purely PvE player. All of my theorycrafting is based on raid style encounters.

Bold part implies that you can do most of the build's damage, aside from aas, pet, and fs, at a 30y range. You never WANT to be at 30y, but it is a strength that no other melee spec has. Blighted rune weapon will outright contribute more damage than PP in the majority of situations now. It being melee range is irrelevant, as UH is a melee spec, not a ranged one, despite its ranged abilities and affinity for high add movement combat. You never want to be at range, you want to be smacking the boss to proc fallen crusader, spend excess runes, and build wounds. You can swap to mob spawns at 30 yard range and do solid damage while running at them to melee.

Bracers will likely be hot dogshit with this build. Even pre-nerf i thought that they wouldn't play well with this build. They force festering strikes, which take runes away from CS, lowering shadow damage contribution, and lowering the value of mastery. I believe that bracers will have their own build. Likely haste>mastery with an altered talent setup. I haven't ran numbers, nor have I played with builds for bracers. Bracers frontload a ton of damage and reduce scaling by a lot. I believe that the 7.1.5 death and decay/defile helmet will be BiS for this particular build by far. Defile, its buff specifically, is insane. The spell does rune effecient ST damage, amazing aoe, and gives you up to 2000 bonus mastery, The more and longer that buff can be up, the better. I think proper usage of helmet might give 100% uptime of 10 stacks of defile buff (2k bonus mastery), although i havent ran numbers. Regardless, helmet+defile is nuts. Shoulders are also really solid, and that's been the primary focus of the UH community, you'll find a lot of info on them.

I think UH is supposed to be the kind of melee spellcaster spec, weaving dark magic and brutal melee swings, I dont think they'll turn it into a core ranged spec.

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'normal' unholy won't be viable after 7.1.5, defile necro claws build will be the best dk dps spec. I say go for it, get the practice in for when it goes live. I'm currently pulling about 380k ST in frost, and 320k in this new build, but the UH mastery build is getting absolutely massive buffs. It's not viable now, but 7.1.5 is coming out next tuesday or the week after, once that rolls around, this build takes off. Unless there's nerfs, which I doubt.

I think building for mastery>crit=haste is a smart idea, my friend.

I know these quotes are a few days old and the thread he opened is already debunked but in case people in this thread didn't see, what he said is absolutely incorrect, not supported at all by actual theorycrafting and is in fact a build with much lower dps than what has been proven to be good. So please anyone who didn't see his other thread but believed him here, don't listen anymore.

dude bro the AMS cloak is soooooooo good. not for damge but from a utility perspective its amazing. and Sephuz's is actually super good if you can get it to proc. on PTR right now death grip procs it even if the target is immune. so DK's can proc it literally on CD.

It no longer procs on immune targets but will proc on anything you actually can move.

[Schizoide]

It no longer procs on immune targets but will proc on anything you actually can move.

Well that's a good change, anyway. Didn't want to start macroing DG into Obliterate.

Did you test as Blood? Thought is that since the DG taunt works on bosses, it might proc Sephuz.

[Woop Woop]

Having Sindragosa's Fury on a 2m30s cool down is going to be pretty insane considering it does 2000% atk power, looked at a log on MoS for the top Frost DK and on first boss his top damage was SF (49.9m) and it only cast once, Obviously this was mass AoE, but imagine having that double the amount of time... Is it only me who finds this crazy strong? I'm actually extremely excited to gear my Frost DK to hopefully get this.

His group pulled all the trash including boss and grouped them up, it does around 1.5m-4m depending on buffs/crits etc. The legendary is looking to be one of our best, definitely bis for mythic+.
Not sure if I should be happy or not that I just got a legendary, before 7.1.5.

[drbatman]

The AMS cloak is so bad it's insulting. It doesn't even increase AMS's effect, meaning all it does is give you what? A bigger window in which to be bad? Personally, I know the mechanics of the bosses I'm fighting perfectly, and I can pop AMS a fraction of a second before a mechanic I want to nullify for the healers, or ignore for a DPS gain. I don't need an extra 5 seconds or w/e to do this.

The AMS cloak is categorically useless, nothing but a stat stick, and arguably the worst leg a DK can get as it doesn't do anything.

well actually it heals you.

Not saying its good, but your obviously ignoring the fact.