Guild trial question - gear alt over trial?

[reversekanga]

Reading this thread makes me wonder how half the people posting here would go in a workplace let alone a game.

If I employ you and you contribute to the success of my business through being productive then you deserve remuneration (Works both ways if you're dead weight). When you employ a new guy at the lowest level, you don't spend time teaching them how to do the job then not pay them at the end of the day...

[kamuimac]

T
The fact that's what you experienced is probably correlated with the fact you advise avoiding guilds using the filter the OP is taking about - you kinda proved their point here.

that not rue at all - have seen it all , from simple rolls for loot , through dkp , several variations of epgp ,suicide kings, been on loot council , seen coruped loot council and also been part of one , went through " if X drops another time its mine because im not fucking not geting weapon for 2 months of farm" , went thought the "im gonna ninja in pugs by me and not gonna give single fuck since i was officer in guild at the time" phase, jadda jadda jadda - in all of them there was always loot drama - people who claim they dont have loot drama i dont belive even for a second been playing this game way to long to buy such bs.

[Deleted]

I would gear the alt if any of the following are true:
1. They are used in main raids sometimes
2. The consensus on the trial is that they are not going to be accepted
3. The trial's gear would make it not much of an upgrade.
4. The trial says a word about the gear before being asked.

On point and absolutely true.

Players that ask this question on a forum, seek approval of their "right" to get gear as a trial. Not a good start. And in my experience, if you are really amazing as a player and a person, you get loot as a trial, because the raid knows you will make it (and they want you to stay and perform).

[Akka]

that not rue at all - have seen it all , from simple rolls for loot , through dkp , several variations of epgp ,suicide kings, been on loot council , seen coruped loot council and also been part of one , went through " if X drops another time its mine because im not fucking not geting weapon for 2 months of farm" , went thought the "im gonna ninja in pugs by me and not gonna give single fuck since i was officer in guild at the time" phase, jadda jadda jadda - in all of them there was always loot drama - people who claim they dont have loot drama i dont belive even for a second been playing this game way to long to buy such bs.

If you've seen so much, it tends to indicate you have gone through countless guilds. That's again proving the point of such filters.

Reading this thread makes me wonder how half the people posting here would go in a workplace let alone a game.

If I employ you and you contribute to the success of my business through being productive then you deserve remuneration (Works both ways if you're dead weight). When you employ a new guy at the lowest level, you don't spend time teaching them how to do the job then not pay them at the end of the day...

The difference being that it's not a job and it's not about making money.

[kamuimac]

If you plan raiding with someone you should treat them as a raider ... it's about showing respect.
Same goes the other way arround tho. Trials should know their place and respectfully decline gear if a main raider needs it. Those first few raids are really important for team feeling if you ask me.

ye respectuffyl decline the gear just so that raider X suddenly quit 2 weeks later- thats how i never got hc wf agi trinket from shamans because the only one that droped for us went to a person who was long time raider and suddenly quit soon after the kill. f... respect people quit all the time if you are serious about joining a guild and raidingwith them never pass any upgrade unless fair lost roll because people are jerks and the same raider that has been raiding for long time can quit next week and loot is lost.

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If you've seen so much, it tends to indicate you have gone through countless guilds. That's again proving the point of such filters.

well duh so officers and their buttbuddies could funnel all loot to themselves while screwing eveyrbody else - that why people see guild as waste of their time.

[Akka]

well duh so officers and their buttbuddies could funnel all loot to themselves while screwing eveyrbody else - that why people see guild as waste of their time.

Are you missing the point on purpose ?

[Chrno]

ye respectuffyl decline the gear just so that raider X suddenly quit 2 weeks later- thats how i never got hc wf agi trinket from shamans because the only one that droped for us went to a person who was long time raider and suddenly quit soon after the kill. f... respect people quit all the time if you are serious about joining a guild and raidingwith them never pass any upgrade unless fair lost roll because people are jerks and the same raider that has been raiding for long time can quit next week and loot is lost.

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well duh so officers and their buttbuddies could funnel all loot to themselves while screwing eveyrbody else - that why people see guild as waste of their time.

Reading your 2 comments i can safely say you wouldn't be raider material in our guild. You seem butthurt by shit happend in the past.

[Moshots]

Your coins are actually your guild's tool, not yours. You wouldn't be there without a guild and couldn't make an additional loot roll. The same with caches – you need to get that amount of mythic boss kills before you can start getting mythic cache loot.

I guess but its only like 6 kills to unlock the cache... so 1 clear with a guild and your already getting mythic cache's. not to mention a 885 a week from M+12. so 3 pieces of 880/885 gear every 2 weeks.

[Deleted]

I'm trialing with a new mythic guild and there is something that I can't help being bothered about, despite knowing that trials shouldn't expect to get gear. Does it make sense for a main raider's alt to come into a mythic raid for the first time and get gear over trials? I'm not sure if he is changing main or not, but I doubt it. It just bothers me because I've been behind the gear curve the entire expansion.

Another possibility is that the GM wants people established in the guild already to soak gear away from trials, with the expectation that most trials won't stay (so the trials don't bring the gear to competing guilds). Does anyone actually do this?

Depends on a few factors.

How long have you been in the guild? Was it your first raid?

Does this raider's alt frequently get used for progression raiding or do they plan to use it for progression raiding? You may not know this, but the guild's officers might.

Does the guild have a policy of not giving gear to trialists? (Not a policy I particularly agree with myself, but some guilds do operate this way).

Perhaps it's some sort of a "test" to see how you react to not getting loot over an alt. Again I think that's a bit silly, but some guilds like to play the mindgame thing I guess. What motivates the trial player - gear or being part of the team? Etc etc.

Perhaps the officers have already decided you are not going to pass your trial - though if they have reached that decision, they should inform you as soon as possible. No point keeping a trial in the guild if you've no intention of promoting them.

Trials go both ways. The guild is trialling you but you're also trialling them. If you decide you're not going to be happy there you are free to leave and no harm done. The guild isn't obligated to give you gear as soon as you join, but my personal opinion is that trialists should be treated the same way raiders are treated. Gear is just gear. What really matters is performance, motivation and realising you're part of a bigger team. If a guild treats a trialist like crap then that team spirit isn't gonna be felt by the trialist. Just my personal opinion though, I guess every guild is gonna have its own culture.

[kamuimac]

Reading your 2 comments i can safely say you wouldn't be raider material in our guild. You seem butthurt by shit happend in the past.

reading many comments i can safely say i would never apply to any of guilds which have such toxic loot rules and im still perfeckly happy playing the way i am so it has 0 effect on me the faster blizzard get rids of such guilds from game the helthier it will be for community

the fundation already is cracked by mythic + where you have get as good gear with 0 fake loot elitism like here now its just matter of time

[Halicia]

Why would you expect to change the way the guild is run as a Trial ?

If you don't like the rules, thats the point of a trial. Find a new guild that suits you.

Thats the main reason I'd be wary about tossing gear to a trial, they have no implied commitment to the guild yet.

[Deleted]

u can think that trial is highest rank in that guild and you soon are demoted to raider and then you get gear, because you suck! and need it. at the moment they think about you too well, that's why they give loot to some lower players who are not that good.

[Akka]

reading many comments i can safely say i would never apply to any of guilds which have such toxic loot rules and im still perfeckly happy playing the way i am so it has 0 effect on me the faster blizzard get rids of such guilds from game the helthier it will be for community

the fundation already is cracked by mythic + where you have get as good gear with 0 fake loot elitism like here now its just matter of time

It seems you really don't get it, so let me speak more plainly : guilds put trial periods to see if the guy is someone they want in or not. They put filters like "no loot" to both not waste loot on someone who will leave/not be accepted, and more importantly to gauge his behaviour. Guilds not doing such filtering are likely to get shit people with shit behaviour, which will whimsically jump guilds or create drama.
Also, with such filtering, it means that people who pass trial have a better chance to be cool people and as such there is much less risk for drama and much less need to have tiered hierarchy - guild with lots of drama and oppressive structure tend to be guilds with bad filtering (either not enough filtering, or filtering on wrong character points).

The fact you went through so many guilds and had so many bad experiences tend to prove that :

1) Guilds without filters tend to get people who cause such drama you experienced, hence why you witnessed so many.

2) Guild without filters tend to break apart rather quickly, hence you went through many guilds.

3) Guilds with filters manage to keep out people who wouldn't work well with others, hence why you seem to not have put foot in actually good guilds.

Basically : filtering works, and that's the reason why your experiences suck.

[Deja Thoris]

reading many comments i can safely say i would never apply to any of guilds which have such toxic loot rules and im still perfeckly happy playing the way i am so it has 0 effect on me the faster blizzard get rids of such guilds from game the helthier it will be for community

the fundation already is cracked by mythic + where you have get as good gear with 0 fake loot elitism like here now its just matter of time

Both parties are happy then. You don't want us and guilds don't want "adults" who use 7 smileys in a singe paragraph.

[Dietrik]

Reading this thread makes me wonder how half the people posting here would go in a workplace let alone a game.

If I employ you and you contribute to the success of my business through being productive then you deserve remuneration (Works both ways if you're dead weight). When you employ a new guy at the lowest level, you don't spend time teaching them how to do the job then not pay them at the end of the day...

But gear is not payment its more like a bonus. In a new job, aside from a predetermined signing bonus, i don't expect a bonus.

[kamuimac]

It seems you really don't get it, so let me speak more plainly : guilds put trial periods to see if the guy is someone they want in or not. They put filters like "no loot" to both not waste loot on someone who will leave/not be accepted, and more importantly to gauge his behaviour. Guilds not doing such filtering are likely to get shit people with shit behaviour, which will whimsically jump guilds or create drama.
Also, with such filtering, it means that people who pass trial have a better chance to be cool people and as such there is much less risk for drama and much less need to have tiered hierarchy - guild with lots of drama and oppressive structure tend to be guilds with bad filtering (either not enough filtering, or filtering on wrong character points).

The fact you went through so many guilds and had so many bad experiences tend to prove that :

1) Guilds without filters tend to get people who cause such drama you experienced, hence why you witnessed so many.

2) Guild without filters tend to break apart rather quickly, hence you went through many guilds.

3) Guilds with filters manage to keep out people who wouldn't work well with others, hence why you seem to not have put foot in actually good guilds.

Basically : filtering works, and that's the reason why your experiences suck.

the reason why i went through so many guild is because i play this game for past 12 years - and filterning - dont make me smile - the same bs applications "ye i will jump through usless hoops and jumps jsut to please you just take me ill write anything you want " bla bla bla + logs - been there dont that was nothing but waste of time because 99 % of people applying to guilds lie but i guess you like being lied to.

but i guess some people really like to get of from fake sense of power they have as "officers" in computer game - been there done that too - was complete waste of time - real life is much more fun and interesting to "progress" - dont worry one day you will agree with me - i have been in the same place as you are now for years since wolk to end of mop - and then i realsied that its nothing but waste of time killing a lot of fun in game when you see this game as nothing more then excell spreadsheet of logs.

[cFortyfive]

Are you missing the point on purpose ?

I am pretty sure he legitimately didn't get it.

the reason why i went through so many guild is because i play this game for past 12 years

Given the rest of your content I am quite certain it's your great personality

[Akka]

the reason why i went through so many guild is because i play this game for past 12 years

I started to play in 2005, the very day of release, and I never had to change guild - yes, that means 11 years and counting in the same guild. I have been regular guild member in Vanilla, officer and main raid leader in TBC and WotLK in said guild (and then back to regular guild member once the game stopped to be interesting to me and I only played to have fun with friends).
I was also part of another guild in WotLK time (from another circle of friends) for one year, never had a problem there either.

I played LotrO for two years, only played in the same guild too (made by people I didn't know before), never changed. Was simple guild member.

So I don't buy your "I had tons of guilds because time" nor "filter is just for officers wanking". I played just as much and went through much less guilds than you in three games put together nevertheless, and yet only chose guilds which had filtering - precisely BECAUSE they had filtering, actually.
The reason why you went through so many guilds has little to do with how long you've played, and mostly because you chose shitty guilds which don't filter applications, and as such have shitty people in it - that's the VERY REASON why filter exists in the first place, to keep shitty people out.
And/or it's because you are yourself the kind of person that guilds want to filter, so you're filtered out and have only shitty guilds without standards to play in - hence tons of drama.

In both cases, again, it shows that filtering works.

Now, of course, not all filters are the same. It's about finding the guild with the criteria which actually fits with your playstyle and character.

[Fayenoor]

Focus on passing the trial. When you pass and get accepted, they will gear you up pretty fast since it is in their best interest as a guild to do so. When you are a trial, dont expect loot except those you coin. When I was raiding more hardcore, trial periods usually ran for 4-6 weeks. Things go faster these days and trial periods run shorter.

[Orangetai420]

Alt or offspec? If it is someone playing their alt, their main spec loot has priority. If it is offspec loot I would think a trial should get it for their main spec first.