[HOLY] Holy Sh*t!: Legion Edition

[Timadin]

I'm more bummed about the 20% damage nerf to Holy Shock than the 5% crit on the 2p! Thankfully we only have shoulders in they way of our tier sets unlike our protection spec!

I enjoy questing as holy because I can normally 2 shot most things. RIP.

[Arayaa]

The nerfed 2pc increases our Holy Shock crit chance by 5%. I haven't actually been able to test it, but does this increase the effective crit chance of the spell by 5%, or 10% because of the doubling?

If it is only 5%, this seems like an extremely weak bonus. It would be a gain of ~1000 crit rating to a spell that contributes to ~20% of our healing. Sure, it makes it a little easier to gear and actually get the necessary amount of crit, but if the bonus equates to little more than a single gem socket, did it really warrant the nerf?

[Deleted]

Does anyone have a "kind of BIS" List for Nighthold?

Edit: One more question: How good is the 4p actually? Doesnt seem that great a bonus, but maybe I´m missing something...

[Timadin]

I can't post links for some reason but this is a BIS list I have been working on. Assuming no legendarys, this is what I would aim for in nighthold.

Helm: Helmet of the Highlord: Elisande (tier)
Neck: Beleron's Choker of Misery from Krosus
Shoulder: Shoulderguard of the Eclipse from High Botanist Tel'arn
Chest: Breastplate of the Highlord: Krosus (tier)
*Back: Drape of Shame (Maiden of virtue Karahzan)
Waist: Waistplate of Fractured Realities from Elisande
Rings: Spellblade's Gemmed Signet from Spellblade Aluriel and Ring of Exclusive Servitude from Tichondrius
Hands: Pauldrons of the Highlord: Tichondrius (tier)
Bracers: Duskwatch Plate Bracers from Spellblade Aluriel
Legs: Legplates of the Highlord: Gul'dan (tier)
Feet: Leystone-Toe Kickers from Skorpyron or Immaculately Polished Boots from Trilliax

Trinkets:
Ephemeral Paradox from Elisande
Etraeus' Celestial Map from Star Augur Etraeus

*AFAIK the effect on this still makes this BIS regardless of ilvl.

[Deleted]

ya so happy its gone

[MCC]

The nerfed 2pc increases our Holy Shock crit chance by 5%. I haven't actually been able to test it, but does this increase the effective crit chance of the spell by 5%, or 10% because of the doubling?

If it is only 5%, this seems like an extremely weak bonus. It would be a gain of ~1000 crit rating to a spell that contributes to ~20% of our healing. Sure, it makes it a little easier to gear and actually get the necessary amount of crit, but if the bonus equates to little more than a single gem socket, did it really warrant the nerf?

IIRC it's applied after the doubling. It does mean it's a lousy 2pc bonus. I have no idea why Blizzard decided to nerf it.

[Floopa]

IIRC it's applied after the doubling. It does mean it's a lousy 2pc bonus. I have no idea why Blizzard decided to nerf it.

you're wrong. you need 45% crit w/ 2pc to be crit capped on HS. prior it was 40%.

the reason they nerfed your 2pc is probably because overall the set is too strong. post-nerf people are mathing out the 2pc as a 2-3% healing increase, and the 4pc as a 15-18% healing increase.

it's not a lousy bonus at all, unless being able to freely use 4000 stat points on anything you like is worthless (for reference the WW monk 4pc grants 2000 stat points so your 2pc is double the strength of that 4pc)

[MCC]

Edit: One more question: How good is the 4p actually? Doesnt seem that great a bonus, but maybe I´m missing something...

I've been trying to imagine the kind of situation where 4pc would be useful and I am sort of drawing a blank. The problem is that IoL doesn't modify any situational spells. It increases throughput of our general purpose single-target heals. There is no need to sit on an IoL proc: you get a proc, you use it right away unless there is nothing to heal. Situations where IoL will get a second charge will be too rare to make 4pc worthwhile.

Am I missing something here?

- - - Updated - - -

you're wrong. you need 45% crit w/ 2pc to be crit capped on HS. prior it was 40%.

This doesn't match what others have said about this bonus, but alright. If you are correct about it, the bonus is "okay" instead of "lousy".

the reason they nerfed your 2pc is probably because overall the set is too strong. post-nerf people are mathing out the 2pc as a 2-3% healing increase, and the 4pc as a 15-18% healing increase.

15-18%? I don't know who these "people" are and what they are "mathing out", but since what you are saying doesn't pass an elementary smell test, I'll go with "Floopa is talking out of his ass again".

[Floopa]

15-18%? I don't know who these "people" are and what they are "mathing out", but since what you are saying doesn't pass an elementary smell test, I'll go with "Floopa is talking out of his ass again".

paladin discord.

[Taeldorian]

Implying you were lucky enough to get the shoulders. My luck is garbage and I have the bracers + boots, thank god they weren't sephuz or prydaz.. At least I got the chains as my third legendary, just waiting for the patch to drop my bracers (only boots I have to replace them are 660 compared to 890s unless I get a lucky drop soon.)

Why? Holy Paladins want Prydaz. It's actually better than most of our legendaries according to the holy paladin guide written by Jeathebelle and Dreamguard as well. It only gets better in 7.1.5 as well.

Though obviously there's a few that are better than Prydaz too, but you'd easily choose the neck over the boots any day of the week.

[Rorschachs]

Is Judgment of the Light still super annoying to use with another paladin in the raid in 7.1.5 or did they fix anything?

[EzG]

Is Judgment of the Light still super annoying to use with another paladin in the raid in 7.1.5 or did they fix anything?

It's the same.

[Deleted]

I've been trying to imagine the kind of situation where 4pc would be useful and I am sort of drawing a blank. The problem is that IoL doesn't modify any situational spells. It increases throughput of our general purpose single-target heals. There is no need to sit on an IoL proc: you get a proc, you use it right away unless there is nothing to heal. Situations where IoL will get a second charge will be too rare to make 4pc worthwhile.

Am I missing something here?

I'm under the impression that IoL always has 2 charges with 4pc. So you get to replace a shit ton of normal FoL with infused ones, which is obviously a sizable HPS increase.

[Talby]

Why? Holy Paladins want Prydaz. It's actually better than most of our legendaries according to the holy paladin guide written by Jeathebelle and Dreamguard as well. It only gets better in 7.1.5 as well.

Though obviously there's a few that are better than Prydaz too, but you'd easily choose the neck over the boots any day of the week.

I thought BiS was shoulders/judge ring? Guess I will have to look again. And yeah I'd rather drop the boots but I have nothing to replace them with so they will have to wait.

[Rorschachs]

It's the same.

So disappointing.

[Floopa]

Is Judgment of the Light still super annoying to use with another paladin in the raid in 7.1.5 or did they fix anything?

JoL on live RIGHT NOW works with multiple paladins, it just prefers using up the "lower value" JoL stacks first.

[Taeldorian]

I thought BiS was shoulders/judge ring? Guess I will have to look again. And yeah I'd rather drop the boots but I have nothing to replace them with so they will have to wait.

Currently yes. I didn't say neck was BiS though, just said it's better than a majority of our legendaries. It's better then boots, secret, gloves, wrists and currently chain.

In 7.1.5 things get changed up though. Belt becomes BiS. Shoulders/ring is still good but ring/belt is the BiS combo I've been hearing. Neck/Belt is good too, and I've heard mixed things about trinket/belt.

[MCC]

I'm under the impression that IoL always has 2 charges with 4pc. So you get to replace a shit ton of normal FoL with infused ones, which is obviously a sizable HPS increase.

"IoL has 2 charges" (which is what the tooltip says) is different from "HS grants 2 charges of IoL" (which is what you are saying). Gotta love misleading tooltips...

[Timadin]

"IoL has 2 charges" (which is what the tooltip says) is different from "HS grants 2 charges of IoL" (which is what you are saying). Gotta love misleading tooltips...

I don't understand how this is confusing at all. It does not say "HS grants 2 charges of IoL" because every HS cast does not grant IoL, only crits do.

[MCC]

I don't understand how this is confusing at all. It does not say "HS grants 2 charges of IoL" because every HS cast does not grant IoL, only crits do.

"IoL can be stacked up to two charges, but HS crits still give you one charge per crit" vs "IoL has two charges and HS crits give you two charges per crit". See the difference? The tooltip can easily mean either of these.