Legion Theorycrafting [7.3, All specs]

[Effinhunter]

Be careful with drawing conclusions on stat sticks. As I mention in the stat plots, most hunters are mastery > haste focused as MM but all sims are pointing towars mastery > crit for MM as the new focus. So, when looking at stat sticks, consider your own gear and needs. If you're low on crit and high on haste, your sims will show a stat stick with crit being better because crit is low.

The MM profile in the trinket sims was kept as mastery > haste because that's what the vast majority of hunters have been gearing for. I'll try to remember to switch it over to mastery > crit in 2-3 weeks. That should push the mastery stat sticks back on top for MM.

As always, sim your own gear. As you can see with the stat plots for MM, that specs stat weights are going to be all over the darn place. It will change from gear point to gear point.

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Are the MM sims right? Looks like its valuing haste fairly high, but thought it was the worst stat now.

Unfortunately, I would say this is going to be a very problematic tier for stat weights with MM. If you stick to targeting mastery > crit, you should be fine, but the simc hunter module is going to pivot drastically almost every time you get an upgrade. And haste for a spec like MM with the high TS uptime you're going to see in NH is going to swing. Number of RPPM trinkets equipped also makes haste jump around a bit.

[BendakWoW]

Is this a Simcraft thing or is this actually in the PTR?

Sim craft, but it's fixed in todays build (correctly buffing stomp damage).

Also, you could probably remove the melee trinkets from the MM and BM sims (draught of souls, arcanogolem digit) and the tank trinket (fang of tichondrius).

[Effinhunter]

Tier sims with updates to Mantle, tier, etc. I've included new options for 44 trait and 54 trait as well, to show how they're scaling with the damage increases in artifact.

BM Tier, Single target (Simcraft Source)


MM Tier, Single target (Simcraft Source)


SV Tier, Single target (Simcraft Source)


I should remind everyone that SV simmed unusually high just before the expansion hit until a bug was found. SV tends to get the least focus out of any spec in the hunter module. Consequently, I would be cautiously optimistic about the current Simcraft results for SV. I think we need a serious review of SV, if possible.

Edit: before I receive angry comments, I'm adding gyroboots 4pc 54 trait so MM has a better single target representation possibility.

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Also, you could probably remove the melee trinkets from the MM and BM sims (draught of souls, arcanogolem digit) and the tank trinket (fang of tichondrius).

Why would we want to remove draught of souls when it's on-use and BM has no issues moving in-and-out of melee range? We could probably remove arcanogolem digit and fang, though. I think someone had asked me to add them before, and so I just updated the list with new item level ranges for them.

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P.S. Going to rerun tier-based talent breakdowns

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Talent Combinations With Tier Bonuses, Single Target

895 gear profiles (the heroic tier sets with appropriate ilvl other gear)

BM w/tier Single Target Talents (Simcraft Source)


MM w/tier Single Target Talents (Simcraft Source)


SV w/tier Single Target Talents (Simcraft Source)

[Rufuz42]

Tier sims with updates to Mantle, tier, etc. I've included new options for 44 trait and 54 trait as well, to show how they're scaling with the damage increases in artifact.

BM Tier, Single target (Simcraft Source)


MM Tier, Single target (Simcraft Source)


SV Tier, Single target (Simcraft Source)


I should remind everyone that SV simmed unusually high just before the expansion hit until a bug was found. SV tends to get the least focus out of any spec in the hunter module. Consequently, I would be cautiously optimistic about the current Simcraft results for SV. I think we need a serious review of SV, if possible.

Edit: before I receive angry comments, I'm adding gyroboots 4pc 54 trait so MM has a better single target representation possibility.

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Why would we want to remove draught of souls when it's on-use and BM has no issues moving in-and-out of melee range? We could probably remove arcanogolem digit and fang, though. I think someone had asked me to add them before, and so I just updated the list with new item level ranges for them.

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P.S. Going to rerun tier-based talent breakdowns

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Talent Combinations With Tier Bonuses, Single Target

895 gear profiles (the heroic tier sets with appropriate ilvl other gear)

BM w/tier Single Target Talents (Simcraft Source)


MM w/tier Single Target Talents (Simcraft Source)


SV w/tier Single Target Talents (Simcraft Source)

I'm trying to understand this post as someone who isn't that great with this stuff. What are you saying at the bottom of this post? Are you ranking the specs by how they sim with BIS gear?

[WeaszelB]

In your MM single target listing you have beltboots ranking rather highly. I assume that means War Belt is being used (so says the source), but is it actually being taken advantage of rather than just being a stat stick?

[eschatological]

The latter sims are different talent builds within each spec assuming 4 piece tier. The ones at the top are factoring in various combinations of legendaries.

[Effinhunter]

In your MM single target listing you have beltboots ranking rather highly. I assume that means War Belt is being used (so says the source), but is it actually being taken advantage of rather than just being a stat stick?

It's single target, so it's essentially a stat stick. Unlike at the start of the expansion when I posted breakdowns with no legendaries because no one had them and it was unreasonable to show inclusive sims with them, I wanted to give a better idea of the legendary performances with tier. This is especially important for BM analysis, since it depends more on legendaries and relic traits.

[brad1q]

How come you don't ever include Qa'Pla in any of your BM simulations? Are the boots just not worth it?

I am curious because someone on discord was saying that Mantle + Qa'Pla sim'ed pretty high.

[Effinhunter]

How come you don't ever include Qa'Pla in any of your BM simulations? Are the boots just not worth it?

I am curious because someone on discord was saying that Mantle + Qa'Pla sim'ed pretty high.

They do sim pretty high. I actually intended to post a bunch of legendary sims tonight that showed all legendaries, but Blizzard just released a new patch to the PTR that is invalidating much of the sims. I will have to rerun sims once we have a new nightly. Talents will change for MM (especially sentinel).

[Chickensoup23]

It's single target, so it's essentially a stat stick. Unlike at the start of the expansion when I posted breakdowns with no legendaries because no one had them and it was unreasonable to show inclusive sims with them, I wanted to give a better idea of the legendary performances with tier. This is especially important for BM analysis, since it depends more on legendaries and relic traits.

Does that mean that for the belt could be replaced by any other stat stick legendary (for instance, in my case, helmet) that would give it a bigger stat upgrade over my currently equipped item? So the best combo would be boots/any legendary that is biggest upgrade for total stats?

I would assume that MS/Aimed+Trick Shot combo would be good for AOE though, especially for things like Nyth MCs and slimes on Eye

[Effinhunter]

Does that mean that for the belt could be replaced by any other stat stick legendary (for instance, in my case, helmet) that would give it a bigger stat upgrade over my currently equipped item? So the best combo would be boots/any legendary that is biggest upgrade for total stats?

I would assume that MS/Aimed+Trick Shot combo would be good for AOE though, especially for things like Nyth MCs and slimes on Eye

The following are from latest Simcraft build. As of the writing of this, Simcraft did not include the change to Vuln to 7s, but from discussions in the Simcraft IRC, I'm not sure that would have affected much here in the MM sims. We were thinking we needed to change the APL to squish 3 AiS into the 7s window, but initial efforts made things worse not better. So, here's what I've got right now.

I have been playing around with Sephuz and other legendaries trying to get something that makes sense. The following has a "perfect" Sephuz usage that has no focus or GCD and always refreshes the equivalent haste every 30s (the ICD of Sephuz). This would have to be something like binding shot on CD (but assuming 30s for the ICD of Sephuz but Binding is longer) or the pet charge for BM (25s cd). I also included the Ranger Net usage for SV and a perfect Sephuz with no focus cost/GCD for comparison of what you're losing with the focus usage. For MM, I put a bursting shot version that uses focus and a "perfect" one that uses no focus/gcd to proc the mini-lust.

The magnetized blasting cap legendary profiles have a using and not using bursting shot. I placed the usage under AiS and MarkS.

BM Legendaries

BM Legendaries, Single Target (Simcraft Source)


BM Legendaries, Three Target (Simcraft Source)


BM Legendaries, Six Target (Simcraft Source)


MM Legendaries

MM Legendaries, Single Target (Simcraft Source)


MM Legendaries, Three Target (Simcraft Source)


MM Legendaries, Six Target (Simcraft Source)


SV Legendaries

SV Legendaries, Single Target (Simcraft Source)


SV Legendaries, Three Target (Simcraft Source)


SV Legendaries, Six Target (Simcraft Source)


Let me know if you see any problems with the Simcraft Source. First cut.

[chronia]

Let me know if you see any problems with the Simcraft Source. First cut.

Is it me thats blind, or are these missing Prydaz? As a hunter with Prydaz, root Legs and Blasting cap as only available options atm i would like to see how Prydaz faires if possible Esp since Blasting cap seems to be deadlast.

[Effinhunter]

Is it me thats blind, or are these missing Prydaz? As a hunter with Prydaz, root Legs and Blasting cap as only available options atm i would like to see how Prydaz faires if possible Esp since Blasting cap seems to be deadlast.

LOL. Ok, fine. Let me add it. I didn't want to sleep anyway.

Edit: actually, I'll get to adding Prydaz tomorrow. Still have a few new sims to run and post with latest changes.

[Deleted]

LOL. Ok, fine. Let me add it. I didn't want to sleep anyway.

before you go to sleep you should run the profile for the 54 and 44 traits for every specc again with tier set

[chronia]

LOL. Ok, fine. Let me add it. I didn't want to sleep anyway.

Edit: actually, I'll get to adding Prydaz tomorrow. Still have a few new sims to run and post with latest changes.

Lol indeed, dat luck with legendaries on my hunter

[Effinhunter]

BM Enchants

BM Enchants, Single Target (Simcraft Source)


BM Enchants, Three Target (Simcraft Source)


MM Enchants

MM Enchants, Single Target (Simcraft Source)


MM Enchants, Three Target (Simcraft Source)


SV Enchants

SV Enchants, Single Target (Simcraft Source)


SV Enchants, Three Target (Simcraft Source)



Distant army is not working in Simcraft right now. Blizzard apparently changed something with spell id or something. Issue is still open on github.

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Rerun of tier breakdowns. The only thing I believe is incorrect is that the Vuln fix for 7s was not in the nightly yet, so MM is a little off. We'll get these reran tomorrow with another nightly.

BM Tier, Single target (Simcraft Source)


MM Tier, Single target (Simcraft Source)


SV Tier, Single target (Simcraft Source)


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Letting talent combination sims run overnight. Will update when I get time.

[Deleted]

Does the current apl still only use MS for vulnerable window?

[Deleted]

what changes on the simcraft build put sv spec that high?

[Makro]

The following are from latest Simcraft build. As of the writing of this, Simcraft did not include the change to Vuln to 7s, but from discussions in the Simcraft IRC, I'm not sure that would have affected much here in the MM sims. We were thinking we needed to change the APL to squish 3 AiS into the 7s window, but initial efforts made things worse not better. So, here's what I've got right now.

So the changes to MS, AiS and PS are included, just the debuff duration is wrong (and probably the APL is now subpar)?

Edit: as far as I can see, in the last build Vulnerable is 7 second, PS is hotfixed to 10%, MS to 550% and AiS to 270%, so everything seems in order.

[Shadow Fox]

...Snip...

Have included data for talent builds / Stats that those sims ran with? Or did I miss something?

Letting talent combination sims run overnight. Will update when I get time.

Oppsies! Did not see your edit!