Experts worried after Hundreds of neo-Nazis have 'gone underground' in Germany

[Slant]

IS wouldn't be anywhere close to a tie at that point anyway, let alone the bigger threat. There are other victims of Nazi Germany than the Jews. Why do people conflate the total number of victims with the victims of just Holocaust.

I think the idea is that "this alone is a mindnumbingly huge number" coupled with the fact that this was the only bureaucratic, dispassionate butchering. Soldiers fighting in a war isn't exactly news. Organising mass slaughter like the biggest BBQ preparation scheme in the history of mankind and mostly being able to just do it unopposed is what shocked people to this day, because it shows just how deplorable human nature can be. It's not even for any profit or political gain. The real tragedy is that it seems so pointless. Someone just got it into their head to do it any they did. That's why this number is quoted instead of war casualties. Let's not forget that England and the US bombed civilian districts in major cities, too. War's war.

[Deleted]

Because they are really only taught about the holocaust in public schools. Worse they tend to use old propaganda rather then historical evidence.. the six million number was taken from a unsourced news paper headline. Offical records put the number a bit above 250,000 and given the logistics involved it seems like the more reasonable estimate.

Not trying to down play it but your average joe really doesn't know much more about world war two then "da nazis are bad key".

World war two is kind of a weird example of the winners write the books. The allies massacred far more non combatants then the nazis. Hell out of the three major powers (allies,soviet,and nazi forces ) the nazi were the most human by far.

Sounds more like some sort of holocaust denial.

[Dextroden]

They never promised any of that. What they promised is that this wouldn't bring down German society as many idiots claimed. It didn't. What they said was that we could manage (or cope, if you prefer that translation). And we are. What they promised is they would see that public order and safety is maintained (you know, the actual task of the police), and it is. Just because an attack happens doesn't mean Germany goes down the drain. It just means an attack happened and people died tragically. Nothing less, but nothing more.

Then Nazis aren't a threat and there is no real danger for foreigners. It's just people being unhappy with the way the country is run. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Kalis]

World war two is kind of a weird example of the winners write the books. The allies massacred far more non combatants then the nazis. Hell out of the three major powers (allies,soviet,and nazi forces ) the nazi were the most humane by far.

Not entirely convinced that industrial scale slaughter of camp detainees and wiping out entire villages in reprisal attacks is in any way more humane than what the Allies did. The Allies bombed cities in retaliation for the Luftwaffe bombing cities, we just so happened to be better at it.

[FS-]

Meanwhile another group that shall remain nameless is already underground and regularly commits mass killings in the EU.

Can't talk about them though. Its racist to do so.

Oy vey! Shut it down!

[Slant]

We'll cross that bridge when/if we come to it.

You say the far right are a threat, but for the majority that is only a potential threat, Islamic extremism is in the here and now and it doesn't give a shit if you are a Christian, Muslim, man, woman, black, white or other.

The far right on the other hand tend to have very specific groups they dislike and if you don't fit into one of them, then you are pretty safe. You know that 'First they came for the Socialists...' quote? Well they never came for the likes of me and weren't going to either.

A Government isn't a binary entity that can only handle one thing at a time. The far right are a threat, and they do commit a lot of crimes. They are not potential threats. What you may be referring to is actual political power in their hands. For now, that danger is pretty much averted. I'm pretty certain they peaked. Legida, one of those Xenophobic movements, has given up their rallies finally. Nobody attended anymore. From weekly rallies it was down to monthly and just this week they announced they would completely get off the street.

That's a good sign. Islamic extremism is a danger, too. And we can combat those. The key is that Germany is protecting its constitutional values against every threat at the same time. We have the money, we have the manpower. So while everyone is talking about "Do terrorists first!" we're doing both. Some people on this forum don't get that, though. And I fancy they'd rather we Kevinned around on the street, arms raised, going "AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!" while running in circles...

[Enthusiastic Steward]

Offical records put the number a bit above 250,000 and given the logistics involved it seems like the more reasonable estimate.

What official records where?
Also please break down these logistics.

[Slant]

Because they are really only taught about the holocaust in public schools. Worse they tend to use old propaganda rather then historical evidence.. the six million number was taken from a unsourced news paper headline. Offical records put the number a bit above 250,000 and given the logistics involved it seems like the more reasonable estimate.

Not trying to down play it but your average joe really doesn't know much more about world war two then "da nazis are bad key".

World war two is kind of a weird example of the winners write the books. The allies massacred far more non combatants then the nazis. Hell out of the three major powers (allies,soviet,and nazi forces ) the nazi were the most humane by far.

Jesus Christ... now you're skirting dangerously close to actual holocaust denial. I mean, it's your opinion and all, so it's legit. But it's one heck of a red flag for racists and nazis.

[Mehrunes]

We'll cross that bridge when/if we come to it.

You say the far right are a threat, but for the majority that is only a potential threat, Islamic extremism is in the here and now and it doesn't give a shit if you are a Christian, Muslim, man, woman, black, white or other.

I do? When? In the part where I said it would take an alignment of the planets for them to gain power?

The far right on the other hand tend to have very specific groups they dislike and if you don't fit into one of them, then you are pretty safe. You know that 'First they came for the Socialists...' quote? Well they never came for the likes of me and weren't going to either.

Yes, "not them" is indeed a rather specific group. Not particularly small one though. Let's not pretend Nazism was benevolent to even other Germans. They most certainly did come for political opponents. For which you'd most likely qualify.

[Slant]

Then Nazis aren't a threat and there is no real danger for foreigners. It's just people being unhappy with the way the country is run. Nothing more, nothing less.

Nazis aren't a huge threat to us, no. Not on a personal level. The reason why we're talking about them is because, unlike the folks on this forum, we are looking ahead and thinking two steps further. The real danger to the actual state of Germany isn't some dude riding down a Christmas Market in a truck. It's tragic, but not a national crisis. The real danger is if nazis actually got into Government. Because we've been down that road before and nobody wants a sequel of that shitshow. The irony is that the only ones who seem to have a hardon for that idea are the ones that come from countries that had to defeat Germany. I still have problems getting my head around that. I'd assume you lot were in league with us being against nazis, instead you're spurring them on. It's incredible.

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Not entirely convinced that industrial scale slaughter of camp detainees and wiping out entire villages in reprisal attacks is in any way more humane than what the Allies did. The Allies bombed cities in retaliation for the Luftwaffe bombing cities, we just so happened to be better at it.

Debatable, just yesterday we found a 1000lbs dud in the street near my office. You always leave your shit lying around! :P

[Mehrunes]

Because they are really only taught about the holocaust in public schools. Worse they tend to use old propaganda rather then historical evidence.. the six million number was taken from a unsourced news paper headline. Offical records put the number a bit above 250,000 and given the logistics involved it seems like the more reasonable estimate.

Not trying to down play it but your average joe really doesn't know much more about world war two then "da nazis are bad key".

World war two is kind of a weird example of the winners write the books. The allies massacred far more non combatants then the nazis. Hell out of the three major powers (allies,soviet,and nazi forces ) the nazi were the most humane by far.

Yes, the 3 million Polish Jews alone just evaporated or some shit. Or they were just skipped in the next census because the communist officials performing it were hardcore antisemites. Yeah, no, over a million people died in Auschwitz alone. And weirdly enough, most civilian casualties committed by military actions happened in countries attacked by the Axis.

[Kalis]

A Government isn't a binary entity that can only handle one thing at a time. The far right are a threat, and they do commit a lot of crimes. They are not potential threats. What you may be referring to is actual political power in their hands. For now, that danger is pretty much averted. I'm pretty certain they peaked. Legida, one of those Xenophobic movements, has given up their rallies finally. Nobody attended anymore. From weekly rallies it was down to monthly and just this week they announced they would completely get off the street.

That's a good sign. Islamic extremism is a danger, too. And we can combat those. The key is that Germany is protecting its constitutional values against every threat at the same time. We have the money, we have the manpower. So while everyone is talking about "Do terrorists first!" we're doing both. Some people on this forum don't get that, though. And I fancy they'd rather we Kevinned around on the street, arms raised, going "AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!" while running in circles...

The far right are only going to grow if nothing is done about the issues we are facing with Islamists and covering up news stories, or the authorities not wanting to investigate rapes out of fear of being called racist is what has pushed people into the arms of the far right.

I do? When? In the part where I said it would take an alignment of the planets for them to gain power?


Yes, "not them" is indeed a rather specific group. Not particularly small one though. Let's not pretend Nazism was benevolent to even other Germans. They most certainly did come for political opponents. For which you'd most likely qualify.

A middle class, right wing, heterosexual white male doesn't have all that much to fear from the far right.

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Debatable, just yesterday we found a 1000lbs dud in the street near my office. You always leave your shit lying around! :P

Try not marching into Poland next time. It is a remarkably easy place to not invade, I don't invade it every day.

[primalmatter]

Wow, you really need to learn a bit about German history before taking part in these discussions.

Sadly I have.

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Sounds more like some sort of holocaust denial.

What am I denying exactly?

[Mehrunes]

I think the idea is that "this alone is a mindnumbingly huge number" coupled with the fact that this was the only bureaucratic, dispassionate butchering. Soldiers fighting in a war isn't exactly news. Organising mass slaughter like the biggest BBQ preparation scheme in the history of mankind and mostly being able to just do it unopposed is what shocked people to this day, because it shows just how deplorable human nature can be. It's not even for any profit or political gain. The real tragedy is that it seems so pointless. Someone just got it into their head to do it any they did. That's why this number is quoted instead of war casualties. Let's not forget that England and the US bombed civilian districts in major cities, too. War's war.

Who said anything about soldiers? Slavic civilians killed by Nazis at least tie with the loss of life of the Holocaust, and they were killed in just as inhumane ways as the Jews. Then there's 500k-1.5 million Roma people. The Jews weren't the only Untermensch sent to camps.

[Slant]

The far right are only going to grow if nothing is done about the issues we are facing with Islamists and covering up news stories, or the authorities not wanting to investigate rapes out of fear of being called racist is what has pushed people into the arms of the far right.

None of that actually happened. The Government is doing a lot against Islamists, news stories aren't being covered up and rape allegations are investigated. The thing is, social media attempted to take over the news monopoly and act like they were the new, faster journalism.

Turns out, regular joes are shit reporters and there's no way to know the difference between propaganda and news on Facebook. Just last week the police outed a woman who actually invented rape charges. She's now being charged with incitement. What's driving people into the arms of the far right is the propaganda of the far right. The good thing is we know that recipe already, so we know how to counteract it. Needless to say that they'll cry bloody murder and call it censorship... but it really isn't. Incitement is a criminal charge and is not covered by any free speech mandate.

[primalmatter]

Not entirely convinced that industrial scale slaughter of camp detainees and wiping out entire villages in reprisal attacks is in any way more humane than what the Allies did. The Allies bombed cities in retaliation for the Luftwaffe bombing cities, we just so happened to be better at it.

You dropped the atom bomb... you kinda lose the high ground at that point. Sure there were a couple military bases hit but lets not try to repaint it as something its not.

[Slant]

Try not marching into Poland next time. It is a remarkably easy place to not invade, I don't invade it every day.

If only you knew... it's so tempting!

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Sadly I have.

Doubt that.

[Deleted]

Until the government actually adresses the issues that are leading to the radicalizartion of germans into the "far right", I feel that the ruling classes don't get to moan about the products of their own labour.

[Enthusiastic Steward]

What am I denying exactly?

The existence of vast amounts of historical record that run counter to your statements.
Which you'll brush off as "victors re-writing history", so debating with you on that is pointless. It would be nice, however, if you could source your statements.

[Slant]

Who said anything about soldiers? Slavic civilians killed by Nazis at least tie with the loss of life of the Holocaust, and they were killed in just as inhumane ways as the Jews. Then there's 500k-1.5 million Roma people. The Jews weren't the only Untermensch sent to camps.

1.5 million vs. 6 million. I think the Jews win this tragic contest of who suffered more. I'm not sure why you're so hung up on the numbers... isn't 6 million enough? Do you think that was the point of me comparing IS death toll to nazi death toll? Give me another number including the other groups then, I don't have it handy and I'll happily use that one instead. This subdebate is pointless.

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You dropped the atom bomb... you kinda lose the high ground at that point. Sure there were a couple military bases hit but lets not try to repaint it as something its not.

He's British. You really, really need to go back and study history some more. You display gaping holes in your knowledge.

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Until the government actually adresses the issues that are leading to the radicalizartion of germans into the "far right", I feel that the ruling classes don't get to moan about the products of their own labour.

If people like you stopped bitching and whinging so loudly and paid that amount of attention to what they're actually doing, you'd notice that they're adressing those problems just fine.