Results are in - literally every class 100k dps higher on single target than hunters.

[Chaelexi]

The dps numbers should be more compelling for such a shitty and clunky rotation.

The difference between my post and yours is that your makes a statement of opinion with no supporting documentation, no suggestions and no actual content to the conversation. It is basically a statement so that you can be part of the conversation. It is a hey look at me I am crying the loudest. No go back and try again and maybe you can actually contribute to the solution instead of fuel to the problem.

[Stangerlift]

I'm far less concerned about numbers than I am about the playstyle. We've been playing the Sidewinders build for nearly 6 months, which while not perfect allowed for us to game our positioning for maximum damage on both ST and AOE. The change to using Arcane shot paired with having to fit 3 aim shots in a very tight and no movement allowed window is awful on multiple levels. The gameplay is, in my opinion, not fun at all. I got to make interesting choices about how to position myself on fights like Odyn, Helya, and Cen to cleave targets in ways that other classes could not. Now, I don't have that at all. The Arcane Shot Spam and Aimed Shot window are really unfun.

[Tehterokkar]

The gameplay is so cancer, really wishing I was like any other class right now.

[Azlo]

Based on Blizzard's knee-jerk, 1 week of data balancing, this is likely the best time to be underpowered.

[saltytaco]

Based on Blizzard's knee-jerk, 1 week of data balancing, this is likely the best time to be underpowered.

I agree with this. IF they listen they will do so drastically and we will be high dps until 7.2; after that who knows....

This was my first xpac to main Hunter and I'm not very happy with it. I really expected more out of a pure ranged DPS class.

[Flurryfang]

Well seems like Blizzard thought it was payback time against the hunter class after nearly 3 expansions with a broken class Its great, that hunters might learn some humility this tier by not being auto top dps

[Deleted]

Well seems like Blizzard thought it was payback time against the hunter class after nearly 3 expansions with a broken class Its great, that hunters might learn some humility this tier by not being auto top dps

Okay, haha. Because we have been either top or above average it means we deserve to be unproportionallty at the bottom now. Thanks for adding to the discussion.

[MasterHamster]

Heading over to the forums

[Finbezz]

Well seems like Blizzard thought it was payback time against the hunter class after nearly 3 expansions with a broken class Its great, that hunters might learn some humility this tier by not being auto top dps

You sure talk a lot of shit for someone who has a meme for an avatar. Check yourself.

[sololux]

I wouldn't mind being "last on the dps charts" if it wasn't over 100k difference. That's kind of ridiculous.

[Flurryfang]

You sure talk a lot of shit for someone who has a meme for an avatar. Check yourself.

Take it as a laugh m8 I just think its funny to see hunters be so whinny in Legion, especially when i see them top dps chart every week when i do normal/heroic raids It seems like hunters in here must see the game in a completly different light then me

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Okay, haha. Because we have been either top or above average it means we deserve to be unproportionallty at the bottom now. Thanks for adding to the discussion.

Your welcome Always happy to bring a little cheer to the dark corners of MMO-Champ Forums, aka the hunter forums xD

[Deleted]

I'm far less concerned about numbers than I am about the playstyle. We've been playing the Sidewinders build for nearly 6 months, which while not perfect allowed for us to game our positioning for maximum damage on both ST and AOE. The change to using Arcane shot paired with having to fit 3 aim shots in a very tight and no movement allowed window is awful on multiple levels. The gameplay is, in my opinion, not fun at all. I got to make interesting choices about how to position myself on fights like Odyn, Helya, and Cen to cleave targets in ways that other classes could not. Now, I don't have that at all. The Arcane Shot Spam and Aimed Shot window are really unfun.

Okay, I'm reading this alot, but why exactly do you have to fit in 3 AiS... because,I/you don't?
Movement wise, I'm not feeling as limited as before either because overall, I'm casting less AiS, or at least with more time in between them.
What really sucks though is if you have to move while your Vulnerable is about to run out. Missing that sweet ~160+% damage AiS kinda hurts and having to substitute it with a ~120-% one is of course not something you want to do.

How do people play?

AS-MS-3xAiS, AS-AS-AS (until close to max focus)-MS-3xAiS?
I'm literally doing like ~100+k less DPS when I do it like that.

Did Azor's guide say this at some point? If I check it right now, it doesn't say anything about doing 3 AiS or even aiming for 3 AiS.

In my opinion, MM Hunter is more engaging than before. I really *do* have to watch my Vulnerable window, Focus and Proccs+Cooldowns now, unlike before, where you could do just fine with going SW-AiS-AiS MS -AiS +(AiS) - repeat +- some stuff.


The goal is to get as many powerful aimed shots, without capping focus, not as many as you can in one window.
MS is still strong Damage per Focus wise, use it as often as possible without cutting into your vulnerable window.
This means you should seek a close to 100% uptime on Vulnerable.

Basically, you end a Window with MS to start a new one, you cast 1-2AS, 1-2 AiS and end it with MS again, next time, you might cast 3 AS and 1 AiS, or crows, then you cast windburst followed *directly* with a MS, followed by 1-2 AS and 1-2 AiS again etc.

[Tharkkun]

That's implying the hunter tier set provides the same % dps than other tier sets, which is just not realistic..
I mean it's not like we have examples of hunters being average without and amazing with their tier set *cough* T18 *cough*

Hunters were amazing during progression and excelled on target switching fights. Once progression ended they were near the bottom.

[Vellithe]

Take it as a laugh m8 I just think its funny to see hunters be so whinny in Legion, especially when i see them top dps chart every week when i do normal/heroic raids It seems like hunters in here must see the game in a completly different light then me

Well, yeah I guess.

I mean, you can be the worst class in the game, so long as you surround yourself with the worst players the game has to offer, you can still top the charts just fine. It's just when everyone's at a similar level that things go bad and the balancing comes to light, see.

I'd expect hunters to just stomp the crap out of low-skill groups, though, seeing as the class is a lot easier than the others, which might make it look strong to baddies. High floor and all that, but the ceiling hitting you on the shin is bad as well.

To be completely honest, I'm no longer concerned. There were too many last-minute changes that blizzard should not have been attempting so close to release, so it's not like they could have gotten it right. They can't get it right over months, there's no way they'd get it right in a matter of hours. Now it's just hoping they buff us somewhat until next week.

[Spodumene]

The difference between my post and yours is that your makes a statement of opinion with no supporting documentation, no suggestions and no actual content to the conversation. It is basically a statement so that you can be part of the conversation. It is a hey look at me I am crying the loudest. No go back and try again and maybe you can actually contribute to the solution instead of fuel to the problem.

My suggestion is to increase hunter DPS. If they expect us to jump through some hoops at least give us a fucking prize at the end.

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The difference between my post and yours is that your makes a statement of opinion with no supporting documentation, no suggestions and no actual content to the conversation. It is basically a statement so that you can be part of the conversation. It is a hey look at me I am crying the loudest. No go back and try again and maybe you can actually contribute to the solution instead of fuel to the problem.

Your post is literally a blame the victim post. "Hold the course!" because that's worked out well so far.

[Flurryfang]

Well, yeah I guess.

I mean, you can be the worst class in the game, so long as you surround yourself with the worst players the game has to offer, you can still top the charts just fine. It's just when everyone's at a similar level that things go bad and the balancing comes to light, see.

I'd expect hunters to just stomp the crap out of low-skill groups, though, seeing as the class is a lot easier than the others, which might make it look strong to baddies. High floor and all that, but the ceiling hitting you on the shin is bad as well.

To be completely honest, I'm no longer concerned. There were too many last-minute changes that blizzard should not have been attempting so close to release, so it's not like they could have gotten it right. They can't get it right over months, there's no way they'd get it right in a matter of hours. Now it's just hoping they buff us somewhat until next week.

Hmm i understand that there is alot of competition in mythic top lvls and that being worse then others, while still being more then good enough to kill the bosses, is not enoug when you have to compare yourself to other classes all the time.

But the class works on all other lvls except for high mythic. So it is just a bit laughable to see players on the forums say that the class is total garbage and that they are now forced to play other classes if they even want to kill critters.

[Smog]

Well, yeah I guess.

I mean, you can be the worst class in the game, so long as you surround yourself with the worst players the game has to offer, you can still top the charts just fine. It's just when everyone's at a similar level that things go bad and the balancing comes to light, see.

You're trying to explain anecdotal evidence vs. aggregate data analysis on mmo-c. Don't bother.

It doesn't matter that there is actual proof we are the lowest performing dps in the game right now, there will always be the random heroic raiding hero that rushes in to claim how good we are because we topped the meters in his most recent normal Guarm kill.

[Vellithe]

Hmm i understand that there is alot of competition in mythic top lvls and that being worse then others, while still being more then good enough to kill the bosses, is not enoug when you have to compare yourself to other classes all the time.

But the class works on all other lvls except for high mythic. So it is just a bit laughable to see players on the forums say that the class is total garbage and that they are now forced to play other classes if they even want to kill critters.

No, you are forced to play other classes to compete.

It makes me sad that you don't want to improve, though I guess I should have expected that seeing the kind of performance we get out of people in LFG/LFR. I always refused to believe that they were trying, for I never thought someone could be that bad while putting some effort in. I guess you're the proof? Oh well.

Anyway, it's not just about downing the boss, it's about doing your best, and being able to compare yourself to others is nice, really nice. I wish classes were all close enough that comparisons were worth something, as it stands you win when circumstances favor your class and you lose otherwise, no point in comparing, no fun in competing.

[Effinhunter]

The point is:

We're low, and Blizzard will need to buff all three specs before Nighthold if they don't want the inevitable shit storm that suppressing the most popular class does to their Twitter feeds and forums. It's the same reason fire mages were nerfed to the ground in PTR and then completely reverted with buffs. Cause a commotion. That's the only way to change this.

Drown Blizzard in collective tears, and do it on official channels like Twitter and the official forums. It works. Always has.

I believe in you, community outrage. I believe in you.

[Vellithe]

The point is:

We're low, and Blizzard will need to buff all three specs before Nighthold if they don't want the inevitable shit storm that suppressing the most popular class does to their Twitter feeds and forums. It's the same reason fire mages were nerfed to the ground in PTR and then completely reverted with buffs. Cause a commotion. That's the only way to change this.

Drown Blizzard in collective tears, and do it on official channels like Twitter and the official forums. It works. Always has.

I believe in you, community outrage. I believe in you.

We stopped being the most popular class after the Legion changes, we're like 4th now.

I don't expect them to leave a whole class that far behind for long, though. I mean, it's one thing to have two terrible specs an a functioning one, but a class with no good specs? No way, they'll have to do something about it. I just hope they don't just buff MM and leave everything else as-is.