Intel: Russia has Compromising info on Trump.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

Well, yesterday he compared his own news agencies to Nazi Germany and dismissed the CNN as fake news and worthless.
Putin got 'he should not have done it. I don't know if we will get along'.

I see a discrepancy there...

Yes, but he's not trying to mend the relationship between himself and the medias. He's trying to mend the relationship between the US and Russia. He has to be diplomatic for that.

Whether I support better relationship with Russia is something else, but still, his attitude is easily explained.

[bergmann620]

Quite frankly, the Fake News problem is an issue created by the medias in the first place.

No, it was created by the propaganda mills that were pumping out fake news.

They've coined the term because they refused to admit that they were partially responsible for the election of Donald Trump

Lots of people have used the term. Voters are the only ones responsible for the election of Donald Trump.

and now -- rightfully or not -- they are insulted that their term used to discredit is being used against them. The thing is, this is the same way they've been using it themselves: On outlets that made assertions out of real documents.

There's a vital difference between saying, "Hillary and John Podesta are running a pedo ring out of this Pizza Shop!" or "Obama is Muslim! Look at him wearing these scary clothes!" and "There are troubling allegations in a set of documents that we have not yet been able to confirm or prove false."

It's the difference between presenting a piece of information as something that may or may not be true, versus not only assuming it's true, but using it as evidence to bolster a false narrative.

But then again, I'm just standing here sipping my coffee and thinking about the irony of it all. Trump, the medias, liberals, conservatives, etc.

There's really no irony to be found. Just our country slipping away, because the same people that told us 20 years ago not to trust anyone on the internet... They now trust everyone on the internet so long as what they're hearing fits their preconceived notions.

[Draco-Onis]

Yes, but he's not trying to mend the relationship between himself and the medias. He's trying to mend the relationship between the US and Russia. He has to be diplomatic for that.

Whether I support better relationship with Russia is something else, but still, his attitude is easily explained.

No one asked him to constantly praise Putin he is doing that by himself, Donald Trump is his own worse enemy. I understand wanting better relations with Russia but this thing with Putin is downright weird, it's like he can't help himself. He is also saber rattling with China and Mexico but goes soft on Russia nothing about this makes any sense.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

No, it was created by the propaganda mills that were pumping out fake news.



Lots of people have used the term. Voters are the only ones responsible for the election of Donald Trump.



There's a vital difference between saying, "Hillary and John Podesta are running a pedo ring out of this Pizza Shop!" or "Obama is Muslim! Look at him wearing these scary clothes!" and "There are troubling allegations in a set of documents that we have not yet been able to confirm or prove false."

It's the difference between presenting a piece of information as something that may or may not be true, versus not only assuming it's true, but using it as evidence to bolster a false narrative.



There's really no irony to be found. Just our country slipping away, because the same people that told us 20 years ago not to trust anyone on the internet... They now trust everyone on the internet so long as what they're hearing fits their preconceived notions.

I think you're misjudging the situation. I do not make assertions about Pizzagate and Spirit Cooking, which were fake news -- allegations made from real documents through a deductive loop, which is one element farther than CNN article.

I speak about the assertions made against Wikileaks documents. For instance, how the medias downplayed the pay to play schemes, the collusion with the medias, the rigged primaries and of course the outright lack of ethics going behind the scene. Any time one of these things would be revealed, they would be ignored.

Now, not all were ignored. 5 top heads of the DNC had to leave. Donna Brazile has to resign her position at, guess where: CNN.

But ultimately, the fake news propaganda was first aimed at discrediting Wikileaks. Only later did the term get coined for outlets like Breibart and Infowars (which are terrible places to go, by the way).

[Thepersona]

No one asked him to constantly praise Putin he is doing that by himself, Donald Trump is his own worse enemy. I understand wanting better relations with Russia but this thing with Putin is downright weird, it's like he can't help himself. He is also saber rattling with China and Mexico but goes soft on Russia nothing about this makes any sense.

and considering that China has much more power and a better bargaining position in the planet

[Zandalarian Paladin]

No one asked him to constantly praise Putin he is doing that by himself, Donald Trump is his own worse enemy. I understand wanting better relations with Russia but this thing with Putin is downright weird, it's like he can't help himself. He is also saber rattling with China and Mexico but goes soft on Russia nothing about this makes any sense.

During the questions, he was almost exclusively asked to give his opinion about Russia. And I mean it: Watch it and tell me how many questions were not related to Russia.

[Draco-Onis]

During the questions, he was almost exclusively asked to give his opinion about Russia. And I mean it: Watch it and tell me how many questions were not related to Russia.

I am talking about from the start of his campaign to now, from when they asked him which world leaders he admires to him randomly praising Putin and Russia in other interviews.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

I am talking about from the start of his campaign to now, from when they asked him which world leaders he admires to him randomly praising Putin and Russia in other interviews.

And Hillary was asked the same and said she believed Merkel was the single most incredible political figure she had the pleasure to see work. Germany is currently plagued with internal strife.

Trump is outstanding in his claims because very little people like Russia. He comes in and do something that is completely outlandish for many of us, considering what Russia did in the past/still do. But that does not put him in a special relationship with Vladimir Putin, that's just part of his diplomatic plan.

[Dug]

Trump is outstanding in his claims because very little people like Russia. He comes in and do something that is completely outlandish for many of us, considering what Russia did in the past/still do. But that does not put him in a special relationship with Vladimir Putin, that's just part of his diplomatic plan.

A plan which is misguided anyways. Russia isn't looking for diplomacy they're looking for the US to look away.

[Kiri]

Yes, but he's not trying to mend the relationship between himself and the medias. He's trying to mend the relationship between the US and Russia. He has to be diplomatic for that.

Whether I support better relationship with Russia is something else, but still, his attitude is easily explained.

Well, I did not say that it is hard to understand. I was just noting that you replied to 'he says nothing negative about Putin' with the 'shouldn't have done it' citation. I don't call that negative. We have seen him being negative about things, in the same press conference no less. There is trying to be diplomatic about not wanting to increase tensions (which reeks of appeasement but that is neither here nor there), and there is putting foreign officials on a pedestal compared to the people that he is supposed to represent.

[Draco-Onis]

And Hillary was asked the same and said she believed Merkel was the single most incredible political figure she had the pleasure to see work. Germany is currently plagued with internal strife.

Trump is outstanding in his claims because very little people like Russia. He comes in and do something that is completely outlandish for many of us, considering what Russia did in the past/still do. But that does not put him in a special relationship with Vladimir Putin, that's just part of his diplomatic plan.

Hillary wasn't randomly and continuously praising Germany and Merkel, Trump has gone out of his way to do this. Even if as you say he wants better relations, wouldn't it be better to do like he says and not show all your cards? He also had a campaign manager that had links to Russia so are many in his cabinet and his close circle. Something is wrong here you would have to have your nose removed not to think it stinks to high heaven.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

A plan which is misguided anyways. Russia isn't looking for diplomacy they're looking for the US to look away.

On this, I agree completely.

Well, I did not say that it is hard to understand. I was just noting that you replied to 'he says nothing negative about Putin' with the 'shouldn't have done it' citation. I don't call that negative. We have seen him being negative about things, in the same press conference no less. There is trying to be diplomatic about not wanting to increase tensions (which reeks of appeasement but that is neither here nor there), and there is putting foreign officials on a pedestal compared to the people that he is supposed to represent.

On this, a little bit less. Medias are separate entities from the people which he represent. Because of your two-parties system, you're bound to have situations and disagreements with some sphere of your society. That he puts the mending of long hurt relationships make some sense politically. Aknowledging medias that tries their damnest to bring him down would've been diplomatic, too, but Trump being Trump, his reaction is not outlandish.

[Machismo]

so how many other Michael Cohen did Trump have working for him?

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it originated from a private investigator hired by never Trumpers and then the DNC to do opposition research

You still never managed to answer whether you were outraged by the release of unverified news storied over a whole multitude of issues. It's almost as if you are avoiding me, because you are selective in your outrage over unverified news reports. here's a few.

http://www.mediaite.com/election-201...sed-cia-names/

http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/repo...-email-server/

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...linton-emails/

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/former-ci...erally-lethal/

[Zandalarian Paladin]

Hillary wasn't randomly and continuously praising Germany and Merkel, Trump has gone out of his way to do this. Even if as you say he wants better relations, wouldn't it be better to do like he says and not show all your cards? He also had a campaign manager that had links to Russia so are many in his cabinet and his close circle. Someone is wrong here you would have to have your nose remove not to think something stinks.

Hillary was copying most of the Merkel policies for her own government. Trump is not copying Russia in his politics.

And quite frankly, again, the sole reason Russia takes such a prominent place is that Trump is constantly bombarded with Russia. Russia here, Russia that, a pinch of Russia there.

Trump's detractors have no interest in stopping because they know it's highly debated within the US. That brings attention to their platforms and they love it. Try to recall how many time he went out of his way to talk about Russia: Not many.

China on the other hand...

[TZucchini]

Quite frankly, the Fake News problem is an issue created by the medias in the first place.

I'm not sure that I agree. The term was used the describe literal fake, from fake news organizations, that garnered millions of views on social media website. That's fake news.

Such as the time the "Denver Guardian" (there is no such media outlet) posted a story titled “FBI AGENT SUSPECTED IN HILLARY EMAIL LEAKS FOUND DEAD IN APPARENT MURDER-SUICIDE.” Literally everything in the "article" was fake. The town was made up, the police department was made up, etc.. Yet this was viewed 15 million times on Facebook, and shared more than 500,000 times.

Another example would be the fake news story about Denzel Washington supporting Donald Trump. The Pope supporting Donald Trump. Germany allowing child marriage under Sharia law. Etc.

These stories weren't created by the media. These were legitimately fake news stories that were viewed and shared by millions of people.

[Draco-Onis]

Hillary was copying most of the Merkel policies for her own government. Trump is not copying Russia in his politics.

And quite frankly, again, the sole reason Russia takes such a prominent place is that Trump is constantly bombarded with Russia. Russia here, Russia that, a pinch of Russia there.

Trump's detractors have no interest in stopping because they know it's highly debated within the US. That brings attention to their platforms and they love it. Try to recall how many time he went out of his way to talk about Russia: Not many.

China on the other hand...

What about all the Russia linked people he has in his inner circle? Are his detractors responsible for that as well?

[Zandalarian Paladin]

I'm not sure that I agree. The term was used the describe literal fake, from fake news organizations, that garnered millions of views on social media website. That's fake news.

Such as the time the "Denver Guardian" (there is no such media outlet) posted a story titled “FBI AGENT SUSPECTED IN HILLARY EMAIL LEAKS FOUND DEAD IN APPARENT MURDER-SUICIDE.” Literally everything in the "article" was fake. The town was made up, the police department was made up, etc.. Yet this was viewed 15 million times on Facebook, and shared more than 500,000 times.

Another example would fake news story about Denzel Washington supporting Donald Trump. The Pope supporting Donald Trump. Germany allowing child marriage under Sharia law. Etc.

These stories weren't created by the media. These were legitimately fake news stories that were viewed and shared by millions of people.

I certainly believe your perception of it to be true. The reality is that the term bled all over the news that contained opposing political evidence, which transformed this into a terrible fiasco.

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What about all the Russia linked people he has in his inner circle? Are his detractors responsible for that as well?

I am not knowledgeable enough of his people having relationships with Russia outside economic investments, so I cannot comment on this.

[AmbientEpicuros]

Would be fun to see a poll out of this on how many believes Trump and how many doesn't.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

Would be fun to see a poll out of this on how many believes Trump and how many doesn't.

But it already exist! http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...mpion-Election!

[bergmann620]

I speak about the assertions made against Wikileaks documents. For instance, how the medias downplayed the pay to play schemes, the collusion with the medias, the rigged primaries and of course the outright lack of ethics going behind the scene. Any time one of these things would be revealed, they would be ignored.

... I've not heard anyone saying that Wikileaks is 'fake news'. It's not 'news'. They're not reporting on anything... They're just like, "Here's what people are giving us."

Further, I've not seen news outlets, but rather just Clinton partisans, railing against most of what you're saying here as far as 'fake news'. I've seen people in the news say that there aren't facts to support the conclusions being draw by the likes of the Infowars and the Breitbarts out there from those data dumps, but that's, once again, entirely different.

But ultimately, the fake news propaganda was first aimed at discrediting Wikileaks. Only later did the term get coined for outlets like Breibart and Infowars (which are terrible places to go, by the way).

Wikileaks is not 'fake news', on the basis that it's not news. Further, I've not seen other mainstream media outlets taking on Wikileaks, but rather, if anything, the documents themselves.