The Zerg Swarm vs The Burning Legion. Who would win?

[derpkitteh]

see what gul'dan does there? just rips the life out of them. it's the warcraft movie, but fel works the same in the main universe. sargeras is the unequivocal master of fel magic and his power reaches to a multi-solarsystem level. he doesn't need to cut planets in half, he can rip out the life force of everything in and around them.

[derpkitteh]

I would like proof he can do it from solar systems away, he is not a God he is just from a very powerful race as in they can be killed and can die. Secondly if you want to to use Segeras then the zero would use God Kerrigan and would end him in a blink of an eye. So let's count gods out and just consider the zero vs the legion. In that case the legion would be screwed and here is why, the legion uses outdated weapons and armor to fight midevil people and die from them FYI. Now let's talk about zero weapons they have an acid that can melt through a steel hundreds of times stronger than titanium it literally melts this stuff. So fel steel would not stand a chance it is made of steel enchanted with fel which means nothing in the terms of this corrosive acid.

Next spines they shoot spines that cut through this armor that is hundreds of times stronger than titanium like a hot knife through butter, and not any hot knife a knife that was heated to 100 degrees celcius and then you cut the butter, so fel steel means nothing.

Next let's talk about zero armor. It is so dense and hard that a neo steel armor shredding bullet bounces off them so a sword from the legion would literally break on their carapace, hell the bigger zerg tank shells bounce off them.

So let's talk magic, in this world magic is also known as pisonic powers and most zerg are extremely durable to this so that means most magic probably won't affect them as much but you never know. So let's say it does the zerg also have something, the zerg virus that can affect literally anything biological now think about this when you are infected you do not die u just become part of the swarm. The virus can infect litreally all biological and non biological matter.

So now you know you do not die when infected and become part of the swarm the legion will run out of soldiers bc their souls won't go back ton the nether.

So really in the end it is 2 million legion minions which is the canon number vs literally hundreds of billions of these creatures that could not be hurt by conventional or magic means. And that the zerg virus would consume them all the legion would eventually would lose.

the proof of his reach is in the chronicle. the battle between him and the pantheon destroyed multiple stars. not just a nearby star that was near the planet nihilam, but stars. stars are multiple lightyears worth of distance away from each other. therefore, sargeras can clearly effect vast, vast swaths of space.

there's no proof of kerrigan having that kind of power. the only power the guy she killed showed was mind control, and that's not destructive power.

psionics are like magic, yes. but fel is real magic, and much different from even other forms of magic. it's capable of undoing arcane traps and tricks, and simply obliterating things out of existence instantly, as gul'dan did in the story they released before legion, arrows were flying at him from a trap and he simply waves his hand and they all disappear. fel as a magic is described by a nightborne as slippery like an oil.

as for the legion's numbers, the legion repeatedly says it is endless and infinite. they have already destroyed a vast amount of the universe, i HIGHLY doubt there's only 2 million of them. that's not even the population of a single nation. wowpedia says their numbers are ESTIMATED to be in the millions, their numbers are entirely unknown. also, the number of demons in the nether seems to be infinite, not even counting their reconstitution.

the zerg has no resistance to magic, no use of magic, and finite numbers. their god is weaker than sargeras, and they have no way to permanently end the legion. they will never be able to get into the nether.

[Kaleredar]

Once again. It doesn't mean anything. Even if he went around cleaving planets in half, it doesn't matter at all. Zerg can survive and breed just fine in space. They don't require atmospheres or habitable living conditions. Even if sargeras cleaved a planet into millions of pieces, those pieces are still going to exist. The gravity of those large masses are going to pull them back together into an unstable hellscape of a world and the zerg would still be able to thrive on it just fine. Sargeras cannot actually destroy matter.

The burning legion travels through dimensions. Sargeras created a dimension to contain demons that he then destroyed.

And even if he could, it still wouldn't make him a winner. He would still lose every ground war. He'd have to destroy every planet in existence to wipe out the zerg. Then he would rule over nothingness. He'd get pretty lonely and sad and realize fighting the zerg was a really, really stupid decision because now he has nothing to do until the end of time except sit around and regret being so stupid.

Are you kidding me? Do you even know Sargeras' motivations? His ENTIRE goal is to unmake the universe. It is LITERALLY to destroy everything.

And you have the "how does sargeras get around" problem. Zerg can travel through space pretty damn quick. FTL speeds. They can go from planet to planet in hours/days. Sargeras can't do that. Every time he dicks his way onto a world, it's because they went through this massive, convoluted summoning ritual that required immense levels of power and time to prepare and do properly to bring him there. If he could actually travel through space without that in any reasonable length of time, he would've done so already. Instead, he's been trying to get his dick into azeroth for over 10,000 years and still hasn't managed it.

That's because Azeroth isn't some bumfuck backwater planet.

You guys talk and act like sargeras is some omnipotent badass, but he's really not. He has failed every single attack on Azeroth. He keeps trying to get here and failing. Archimonde was killed by wisps. Then again by 25 dudes. Then again by 25 dudes. Archimonde is the 3rd strongest guy in the entire legion and he drops like a bad habit. Kil'jaeden won't be that much stronger (who has also been defeated by 25 dudes, whines of "NOT FULL POWER" not withstanding, most of his body was hanging out of that portal).

"25 dudes" is not lore. By that logic a scant army of space hicks can easily defeat zerg invasion forces.

The legion just cannot properly move it's army around or field it's more powerful members efficiently.

In any realistic scenario, the zerg simply cannot be defeated. Even if, by some miracle of archimonde + kil'jaeden + sargeras nonsense that they managed to kill all of them on a single planet, there simply aren't enough members of the legion to leave on that planet to KEEP it secure and prevent another infestation. They would have to move all of their forces to take each planet and be unable to actually hold the planet once taken. They simply cannot win because there aren't enough of them, nevermind the fact they are drastically weaker than zerg physically and structurally.

New York City has 8 million people living in it. That is more than 4 times the population of the entire burning legion. And their quantity is canon. Imagine how small new york city is compared to the world at large, and imagine a military that tiny trying to maintain control over an entire planet. It simply couldn't be done.

I don't think you people grasp the numbers or the realities of this situation.

Let's consider population density for a moment. I'm not sure exact land mass measurements have been given for azeroth so i'll use the real world as an exmaple because those numbers actually exist.

With the legion's CANON population sitting at 2,000,000... That gives them a population density of 0.0345 demon per square mile. Think about that for a minute. Not quite 3 and a half fucking demon, every 100 square miles. Zerg population on the other hand is theoretically in the trillions but I won't even need to speculateor use common sense or guesswork, i'll simply just use hard, confirmed numbers given in the lore. Population of the planet Char is around 10 billion in the year 2504.

So if all of those zerg, JUST on that one fucking planet, moved to earth, their population density is going to be about 172.4 zerg per square mile.

SO stop and think about those numbers for a minute. Try to wrap your brains around that. For every 100 square miles on the earth, you' dhave 17,240 zerg tearing the fuck out of 3 and a half demons. I mean, are you people seriously even entertaining the possibility that the legion can win? Really? Even if the zerg didn't so grossly, overwhelmingly overpower them with being harder to kill and having more damaging attacks, they are just way, way, way too outnumbered. Even if only one tenth of a single percentage of the zerg were ultralisks, that still means over 17 ultralisks that can simply crush them to death without even having to attack vs not quite 3 and a half demons.

The numbers is where the zerg win so categorically. Even if you ignore the fact they are far more resilient and more damaging and threatening in combat to the point where one zergling would be stronger than most of the demons in burning legion, just the numbers alone have zerg winning.

And you might think of something dumb like "well they wouldnt be that spread out", but it doesn't matter because if they were concentrated in a single point, the zerg could surround and attack that point from all sides. Know anything about military tactics? You know how overwhelmingly fucked you are trying to defend against all sides at once? Even if you were to assume they were roughly equivalent in strength by ignoring all of the physics behind everything we know about both groups, and having it lean heavily in the legion's favor, it simply wouldn't matter. There's just too many zerg.

And again, sargeras can't stop them without blowing up every planet in the universe which is something he either can't or won't do. Any way you look at it, it's a no-win scenario for the legion. And they can respawn from now till the end of time, but those overwhelming odds against them will never change and in fact only get worse. Those zerg densities will increase over time and make it more and more in the swarm's favor.

You guys have to consider, the zerg were basically ripped off from the Tyranids from Warhammer 40k as all the starcraft factions were ripped straight from 40k and slightly modified. And in 40k, the armies are bigger and stronger than anything in WOW. ANd yes, they even fight against magic and even gods in that setting, and still win. Tyranids, like the zerg, just multiply too quickly and there's just too many of them. It's one of the 4 "dooms" of the 40k universe, one of the potential endings to the universe is that the Tyranids eat everything.

It's just not an enemy you can defeat sadly without some heavy plot device nonsense. You can fanboi about legion and pretend they're super strong all you want, but they routinely lose and have yet to succeed in their goals.

Meanwhile, zerg keep eating planets and the situation is so hopeless Protoss purge those planets rather than even trying to take them back. It's the root of most of the terran vs protoss war and tensions in the first place. Terrans want to try to evacuate people to save them from those completely fucked planets, protoss want to purge it before they have a chance to spread elsewhere and contaminate another planet.

Also Kerrigan became a god at the end of SC2 so... She could take Sargeras I think.

If the legion army was TRULY overwhelming or unstoppable, they would just invade and be done with it, but they don't. They know they are not that great and kinda flimsy, so KJ tries to soften up enemies first. Tries to make populations turn against themselves to cause strife and disruption and all kinds of other shit to make them easier to take over. If they were truly powerful and overwhelming, they wouldn't give a fuck. Zerg certainly don't. And you aren't going to have KJ popping up whispering sweet nothings to the hive mind of the zerg and convincing them that fucking over their own kind is a good thing to do. Isn't gonna happen. Legion just can't compete against something like the zerg, they have absolutely nothing in their favor in such a conflict. And seeing as how one orc actually hurt Sargeras that one time, he'd fall to the overwhelming swarm as well. He isn't invincible.

No clue where you heard the population of the burning legion was "two million" so I'm going to write most of this off as nonsense. The legion literally cannot be defeated. Its members reform endlessly. The zerg... don't.


Sargeras can only be hurt by... magic.

You know what the zerg don't have? Magic.

[Deleted]

No clue where you heard the population of the burning legion was "two million" so I'm going to write most of this off as nonsense. The legion literally cannot be defeated. Its members reform endlessly. The zerg... don't.


Sargeras can only be hurt by... magic.

You know what the zerg don't have? Magic.

don't hold your breath on that "the legion can't be defeated" stuff, patch 7.3 is all but guaranteed to have some major reveals in that department.

and even if they are truly immortal, that doesn't mean they can't defeated. the demons were imprisoned once before and can be again, the zerg have several means of doing so. there are also ways to permanently kill demons that are unknown to us.

and honestly, magic is not some free card. 99.9% of magic users in warcraft are just better fighters, they need rest, they can't aoe large areas, fireballs do damage equal to a grenade at best, etc. only the big lore characters can perform truly powerful spells, but even they can't do so routinely.

[zaino]

Burning Legion.

Fire would purge everything!

fire cannot break ultralisk armor

zerg wins hands down

The burning legion travels through dimensions. Sargeras created a dimension to contain demons that he then destroyed.



Are you kidding me? Do you even know Sargeras' motivations? His ENTIRE goal is to unmake the universe. It is LITERALLY to destroy everything.



That's because Azeroth isn't some bumfuck backwater planet.



"25 dudes" is not lore. By that logic a scant army of space hicks can easily defeat zerg invasion forces.



No clue where you heard the population of the burning legion was "two million" so I'm going to write most of this off as nonsense. The legion literally cannot be defeated. Its members reform endlessly. The zerg... don't.


Sargeras can only be hurt by... magic.

You know what the zerg don't have? Magic.

do you know what infestor is?

[Kaleredar]

fire cannot break ultralisk armor

How does an ultralisk's armor stand up against arcane or void magics?

do you know what infestor is?

You know who created the scourge? The legion.

[zaino]

How does an ultralisk's armor stand up against arcane or void magics?

I dunno it holds up to protoss psionics pretty well. in the LOTV cinematic the archon only ends the ultralist by dragging it into the nether.

I would put protoss significantly above mages and warlocks.

[Aquamonkey]

the proof of his reach is in the chronicle. the battle between him and the pantheon destroyed multiple stars. not just a nearby star that was near the planet nihilam, but stars. stars are multiple lightyears worth of distance away from each other. therefore, sargeras can clearly effect vast, vast swaths of space.

The battle itself raged across that space. It's not that they were just chilling at Nihilam and stars all around were blowing up. And the Pantheon wasn't just fighting Sargeras, they were fighting the entire Legion as well.

as for the legion's numbers, the legion repeatedly says it is endless and infinite. they have already destroyed a vast amount of the universe, i HIGHLY doubt there's only 2 million of them. that's not even the population of a single nation. wowpedia says their numbers are ESTIMATED to be in the millions, their numbers are entirely unknown. also, the number of demons in the nether seems to be infinite, not even counting their reconstitution.

No clue where you heard the population of the burning legion was "two million" so I'm going to write most of this off as nonsense. The legion literally cannot be defeated. Its members reform endlessly. The zerg... don't.

Demons are infinite, the Legion is not. Not all demons are in the Legion.

The War of the Ancients
[...]
Sargeras gathered his vast, demonic army, known as the Burning Legion, and made his way towards the unsuspecting world of Azeroth. The Legion, comprised of a million screaming demons, all ripped from the far corners of the universe, roiled and burned at the thought of conquest
--Warcraft 3 manual

Zerg number in the tens of billions. Over 10 BILLION on Char and over 5 BILLION on Aiur. That's just 2 zerg planets and already over 15 BILLION. They outnumber the Legion 10,000 to 1.

Demons don't respawn instantly.

To Sargeras's dismay, he realized that he had fought many of these demons before. After he had defeated them in the physical universe, their spirits had simply returned to the Twisting Nether. Eventually they had been reborn in new bodies.
--Chronicle Vol 1

Their beachhead would be overwhelmed and they'd lose control of their portal from the Nether. They've lost control of their reinforcement portal to the denizens of Azeroth more than once.

[Kaleredar]

I dunno it holds up to protoss psionics pretty well. in the LOTV cinematic the archon only ends the ultralist by dragging it into the nether.

Actually it cuts it up pretty well. And if you're talking about "THE NETHER," guess who lives there...

I would put protoss significantly above mages and warlocks.

They don't use magic.

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Demons are infinite, the Legion is not. Not all demons are in the Legion.

The War of the Ancients
[...]
Sargeras gathered his vast, demonic army, known as the Burning Legion, and made his way towards the unsuspecting world of Azeroth. The Legion, comprised of a million screaming demons, all ripped from the far corners of the universe, roiled and burned at the thought of conquest
--Warcraft 3 manual

Zerg number in the tens of billions. Over 10 BILLION on Char and over 5 BILLION on Aiur. That's just 2 zerg planets and already over 15 BILLION. They outnumber the Legion 10,000 to 1.

Demons don't respawn instantly. Their beachhead would be overwhelmed and they'd lose control of their portal to the Nether. They've lost control of their reinforcement portal to the denizens of Azeroth more than once.

See you keep quoting that one quote. While I think they're using "A Million" as a turn of phrase to encapsulate a large number (why would the invasion force be comprised of exactly one million demons?) all that that quote shows, regardless, is that a million demons were prepared to attack Azeroth. It didn't say "gathered all the Burning Legion." Or "The burning legion consisted of exactly a million demons and Sargeras DMed every last one of them to roll up on Azeroth" Just that Sargeras, at that moment, had gathered a million demons to attack Azeroth.

We have no idea of the Burning Legion's numbers. And regardless, even if the Burning Legion doesn't encapsulate all demons, the demons they do contain still hold the merit of not being able to be permanently destroyed by any means the zerg possesses.

[zaino]

Actually it cuts it up pretty well. And if you're talking about "THE NETHER," guess who lives there...




They don't use magic.

well we could sit here and argue magic vs psionics all day

The zerg would 100% outnumber the burning legion though. And zerg would adapt. Could expect the zerg to evolve and adapt just like we did to the withered.

besides, not every member of the burning legion uses magic.

If you look at the size of protoss zealots or terran marines compared to zergling sizes, zerglings are fairly large, and they are the smallest units in the zerg army (not counting drones).

zerglings make mince meat of marines who have power armor and rifles that in modern day would have to be mounted on tanks. Protoss are an alien advanced civilization with advanced technologies which allows them to go toe to toe with the zerg in melee.

Fel guards, pit lords, and especially your basic demons who dont use magic and fight with martial weapons would be absolutely obliterated by zerglings.

And then there are roaches, ravagers, mutalists, hyralisks, ultralisks, could go on.

[Nathreim]

There is a few things I would have to try and figure out before committing to either choice.

Big Number One here is can the Zerg Infect the Burning Legion?
Any of the demons? Only some? Or none at all? If any of the Demons can be effected, perhaps even the bigwigs like Archimonde then the Zerg could certainly win.

And like it or not, the Twisting Nether does have to be factored in here. The main thing is how fast will they regenerate in the Nether?
Is it fast? Or a slow process? Can the Zerg infect and overrun the Legion as soon as they spawn? Or is it a gradual thing?

Even if the Zerg can infect Demons, if the Legion can spawn like jack rabbits from the Nether it will then just boil to attrition, one I see favoring the Legion more. Though if the Zerg can infect any demon, even bigwigs like Archi and Sargeras, then I would give it to the Zerg.

Yay variables! Peace.

They cant. How do you infest something with fel fire for blood? Fel fire that melts armor, stone, and flesh like its ice.

Demons are more magic than flesh even if you could take its body its soul would just return to the nether and form a new body. Eventually the Legion would kill more Zerg than they could make with Legion bodies.

[Kaleredar]

well we could sit here and argue magic vs psionics all day

The zerg would 100% outnumber the burning legion though. And zerg would adapt. Could expect the zerg to evolve and adapt just like we did to the withered.

Magic doesn't exist in Starcraft at all, though. Magic requires some degree of aptitude to use or resist.

[zaino]

You can consider Psionics like Arcane magic.

psionics will always trump magic

[Kaleredar]

well we could sit here and argue magic vs psionics all day

The zerg would 100% outnumber the burning legion though. And zerg would adapt. Could expect the zerg to evolve and adapt just like we did to the withered.

besides, not every member of the burning legion uses magic.

If you look at the size of protoss zealots or terran marines compared to zergling sizes, zerglings are fairly large, and they are the smallest units in the zerg army (not counting drones).

zerglings make mince meat of marines who have power armor and rifles that in modern day would have to be mounted on tanks.

This is Warcraft, not modern day. Behind the cheeky steam punk flare, their technology is more advanced that modern day technology by a good amount. And that's the technology used by Goblins, Dwarves and Gnomes, let alone the burning legion.

Protoss are an alien advanced civilization with advanced technologies which allows them to go toe to toe with the zerg in melee.

The burning legion is comprised of what were once advanced civilizations that they brought into the fold.

Fel guards, pit lords, and especially your basic demons who dont use magic and fight with martial weapons would be absolutely obliterated by zerglings.

And then there are roaches, ravagers, mutalists, hyralisks, ultralisks, could go on.

Their weapons are made by magic, as is their armor. Their blood courses with demon blood, with is magical. Everything about demons is basically magic. Their bodies materialize in the twisting nether, a giant void of magical goobldeygook.

You can consider Psionics like Arcane magic.

We have absolutely no idea what Psionics or arcane magic are like. And unless Blizzard Midi-chlorians it, you can safely presume they're different things.

[Aquamonkey]

See you keep quoting that one quote. While I think they're using "A Million" as a turn of phrase to encapsulate a large number (why would the invasion force be comprised of exactly one million demons?) all that that quote shows is that a million demons were prepared to attack Azeroth. It didn't say "gathered all the Burning Legion." Or "The burning legion consisted of exactly a million demons and Sargeras DMed every last one of them to roll up on Azeroth" Just that Sargeras, at that moment, had gathered a million demons to attack Azeroth.

You're really reaching beyond what is stated and what grammar indicates. It says Sargeras gathered his vast, demonic army from across the universe, the Burning Legion. He gathered the Burning Legion. He only has the one Legion. That army comprised of a million demons.

"The burning legion consisted of exactly a million demons and Sargeras DMed every last one of them to roll up on Azeroth" That is exactly what it says. By TBC, that went up to "millions".

We have no idea of the Burning Legion's numbers. And regardless, even if the Burning Legion doesn't encapsulate all demons, the demons they do contain still hold the merit of not being able to be permanently destroyed by any means the zerg possesses.

Demons are more magic than flesh even if you could take its body its soul would just return to the nether and form a new body. Eventually the Legion would kill more Zerg than they could make with Legion bodies.

Doesn't matter if the demons can't properly enter the physical universe. The Legion's failed assaults on Azeroth happen years apart and they still need someone on our end to let them in.

[Aquamonkey]

On the topic of zerg vs magic, the Scourge and the LK use magic.

How about The Lich King vs Queen of Blades?
Queen. I think the Swarm would make short work of the Scourge. (ChrisMetzen)

[Kaleredar]

You're really reaching beyond what is stated and what grammar indicates. It says Sargeras gathered his vast, demonic army from across the universe, the Burning Legion. He gathered the Burning Legion. He only has the one Legion. That army comprised of a million demons.

"The burning legion consisted of exactly a million demons and Sargeras DMed every last one of them to roll up on Azeroth" That is exactly what it says.

No... No, it still only specifies that the million demons were comprised of demons ripped from all corners of the Universe. Good for them. All of the burning legion is like that, and that's to be expected.

I mean, you could say "Eisenhower gathered the American Troops and made his way towards the unsuspecting shores of Normandy. The Americans, comprised of 73,000 soldiers, were all from various parts of the United States, grimly prepared for the battle ahead." That's literally just switching out applicable words from your quote.

You don't read that and think "Gee wilikers, the Americans only had 73,000 soldiers in the entirety of World War 2 and they dropped ALL of them on the shores of Normandy?!"

No, you think "oh, so the American Army sent 73,000 soldiers to invade the shores of Normandy. Cool facts" while logically concluding that they had more soldiers than that.



...Not that Blizzard has any remorse retconning the Warcraft 3 manual. How are those exactly five old gods looking?

Doesn't matter if they can't properly enter the physical universe. The Legion's failed assaults on Azeroth happen years apart and they still need someone on our end to let them in.

Again, Azeroth isn't some backwater burg of a planet. It was built to be protected from forces exactly like the burning Legion by design. Furthermore, the Legion is shown to have space ships and are capable of inter-dimensional travel, "faster than light" be damned.

[zaino]

you also have to remember how inept the burning legion is

cant even bring sargareas into azeroth

cant even bring the kiljaedan into azeroth without them getting kicked back to where they belong

everytime the legion tries to do something on azeroth they get bamboozled

[Kaleredar]

On the topic of zerg vs magic, the Scourge and the LK use magic.

How about The Lich King vs Queen of Blades?
Queen. I think the Swarm would make short work of the Scourge. (ChrisMetzen)

Sure do. But the Burning Legion is vastly larger than the scourge. The Zerg can't just brute force them.

The scourge exist on one planet. The Burning Legion comprises "countless" planets. And they basically waved their hand and created the scourge.

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you also have to remember how inept the burning legion is

cant even bring sargareas into azeroth

cant even bring the kiljaedan into azeroth without them getting kicked back to where they belong

everytime the legion tries to do something on azeroth they get bamboozled

You know what defeated their invasion attempts every single time? Magic, and a lot of it. Titan designed magic, whether that be in the form of the dragon aspects or the entirety of the forces of the Ancients. Hell, they even needed the intervention of Illidan (using the Burning Legion's own power) to repel them the first time.

What does the Zerg seem pretty short on? Magic.

[zaino]

Sure do. But the Burning Legion is vastly larger than the scourge. The Zerg can't just brute force them.

The scourge exist on one planet. The Burning Legion comprises "countless" planets. And they basically waved their hand and created the scourge.

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You know what defeated their invasion attempts every single time? Magic, and a lot of it. Titan designed magic, whether that be in the form of the dragon aspects or the entirety of the forces of the Ancients. Hell, they even needed the intervention of Illidan (using the Burning Legion's own power) to repel them the first time.

What does the Zerg seem pretty short on? Magic.

and yet just above you said you have no way to measure how strong psyonic abilities would be compared to magic

im willing to bet the burning legion would have no idea what to do if they were hit by psionic attacks, or protoss storms.

unless psionic abilities would be directly defined as arcane magic the burning legion would also have no idea what is coming

if the zerg get kerrigan especially xelnaga kerrigan burning legion lose outright