[7.0 Retribution Paladin] Guide and Discussion

[Ryuji]

P.S. Keep in mind, that any fight with +dmg or burst phases belt will be even stronger.

WTB the belt so bad. I'm imagining Nythendra in the beginning when you're the lucky one who doesn't get Rot at all till wings fades. @_@

[Taeldorian]

Pulled now 690k dps on Ursoc. I can smell belt nerfs

I doubt it.

They're going to be looking at NH information/logs and maybe M ToV if people are still doing that but NH will be the current raid and it'll be tuned differently than EN (I hope anyway) so they'd have different data.

Also, it depends how long fights last but can't base much of anything off of a 2m kill.

[Nition]

That's pretty low haste, but (imo) NEVER downgrade if you Mastery in the process. Mastery is our weakest stat.

That's considered low? I've been running about with 15% for a while now :P

[Snowfunk]

That's considered low? I've been running about with 15% for a while now :P

15%!? How do you endure?
For Science? For the greater good?
xD

[ThePants999]

Anyone know how much more worth relics with AW duration increased with chains of Thrayn?

I've also wondered this. I don't have an answer, but I simmed replacing my 855 AW duration relic with an 880 vanilla one, and the 880 was about 2K lower whereas previously the 880 would have won. I'd estimate that AW relics are now worth something like +28 ilvls with the belt.

[Nition]

15%!? How do you endure?
For Science? For the greater good?
xD

Hah, a combination of simming higher with lower haste gear and people in the retribution discord saying it wasn't an issue. Even with it that low I don't find myself hanging around not pressing anything. Worth noting, before the patch I was running TFoJ, not zeal.

Might try ignoring the sims and using a couple of more haste items. When comparing myself to people parsing in the 99th percentile, I can apparently afford to drop some vers for haste.
Here's my armoury if you're interested at all :P

With the nightbane chest and trinket at full stacks, I'm normally at around 35% crit.

[Deleted]

OP updated once more! Definitely ready for 7.1.5!
New trinketlist 7.1.5/Nighthold; Retribution Patchnotes; and a new Legendary section with Legendary item changes and what we want/what we use!

Please note that some things arent final just yet, the next couple of days can change a few things.

[krille20]

Your rotation might feel a little clunky under 20% haste, but depending on your gear, you could see more damage around 16% haste until you get better gear.

Hm..okay. Because I got a ring today. 870 ilvl with 1.4k crit and almost 1.1k vers. If I replace my 840 ring which has 1650 haste which would put me at 15.21% haste. It's so hard to get an upgrade when I need to be on at least 20% haste, imo. Pawn says it's an 4% upgrade but I dont know how reliable it is since I've just began to use it.

[dnicks17]

Looking at log rankings while excluding the belt is hilarious.

Good stuff, Blizz.

How long do you think it will take them to nerf it to 10%?

[Eon Drache]

Looking at log rankings while excluding the belt is hilarious.

Good stuff, Blizz.

How long do you think it will take them to nerf it to 10%?

It will only get worse once Nighthold launches and you have rets with CoF and the belt. Anyone without those 2 will struggle.

[Maylander]

It will only get worse once Nighthold launches and you have rets with CoF and the belt. Anyone without those 2 will struggle.

Indeed. I already have the belt, and I'd love to have both that and Convergence of Fates in their current form, but I really don't expect that to happen.

[Eon Drache]

Indeed. I already have the belt, and I'd love to have both that and Convergence of Fates in their current form, but I really don't expect that to happen.

Just got my 4th legendary so I dont expect I'll get the belt. Though we had 2 people get 2 legends back to back so maybe lol.

[Meiffert]

It's so hard to get an upgrade when I need to be on at least 20% haste

Please don't listen to people who have no idea how haste works and just parrot the same nonsense over and over. There is no magic 20 % haste limit to worry about.
The haste breakpoints you should consider are 12.5 %, 31.25 %, 50 % and 100 % (relevant for Crusade + Heroism).
Unless you are able to get over 31.25 or you are in danger of dropping below 12.5, there is no reason to worry about the exact value of haste.

Haste, crit and vers are almost equal in value for most realistic gearsets with mastery a bit behind. Passing a 30 ilvl upgrade (that doesn't even have mastery) would be a big mistake for sure, there isn't even a reason to run any sims.

[Deleted]

OP updated once more! Definitely ready for 7.1.5!
New trinketlist 7.1.5/Nighthold; Retribution Patchnotes; and a new Legendary section with Legendary item changes and what we want/what we use!

Please note that some things arent final just yet, the next couple of days can change a few things.

It seems Swarming Plaguehive is still good even with GBoM gone. No surprise to see Nighthold trinkets so far ahead, Convergeance rules by a large margin. I suppose the Gul'Dan' s trinket must be casted near the end of Crusade for maximum effect.

[OrcsRLame]

Silly question, does the value of Wrath of the Ashbringer go up if we have Convergence and/or the legendary belt? I would think things with direct synergy with Crusade would increase the value of a trait that makes Crusade better.

[Eon Drache]

Silly question, does the value of Wrath of the Ashbringer go up if we have Convergence and/or the legendary belt? I would think things with direct synergy with Crusade would increase the value of a trait that makes Crusade better.

Definitely do. Not to mention that since it looks like Execution Sentence is better than Final Verdict in nighthold that the Templar's Verdict relic will actually be worth less. Probably a bigger gap on when you would replace a lower ilevel wrath relic.

[Redblade]

Not to mention that since it looks like Execution Sentence is better than Final Verdict in nighthold

The way I understood it is that TV/FV scales better and as such will still be the go to in the end and the only reason ES shines during perfect conditions right now is that is was buffed individually. Which was kinda stupid instead of having it be treated the same as TV/FV as far as buffs and legendarily items are concerned. Not to mention that ES is prone to result in a loss of DPS due to mechanics.

For me ES only sims about 20k higher than FV atm so I'm sticking with FV as realistically those 20k won't be seen very often.

[Snowfunk]

The way I understood it is that TV/FV scales better and as such will still be the go to in the end and the only reason ES shines during perfect conditions right now is that is was buffed individually. Which was kinda stupid instead of having it be treated the same as TV/FV as far as buffs and legendarily items are concerned. Not to mention that ES is prone to result in a loss of DPS due to mechanics.

For me ES only sims about 20k higher than FV atm so I'm sticking with FV as realistically those 20k won't be seen very often.

Yea, I'm doing the same.
ES is gonna need to pull ahead a lot more than that, before I even touch it with a stick.
I have the Cloak and even if I didn't, it's a nightmare to manage.

[Deleted]

I'd really like to see how conc in its current state will work in high m+ (not even considering raid environment or pvp) with all the mods (sanguine volcanic to name a few) .Am not even mentioning Es cause it is even more retarded. Pallies waiting for a major patch to fix their talents and synergy and all we got is a simple numbers buff. GJ blizz

[Deleted]

I'd really like to see how conc in its current state will work in high m+ (not even considering raid environment or pvp) with all the mods (sanguine volcanic to name a few) .Am not even mentioning Es cause it is even more retarded. Pallies waiting for a major patch to fix their talents and synergy and all we got is a simple numbers buff. GJ blizz

I see it working pretty well since you would probably specc into DH for M+ anyways, meaning you would get free GCDs where you could then use Conc.
For me it sims as a DPS upgrade over FV, even for single target fights (but still lower than ES), presumably due to less used GCDs compared to BoW.

Anyways I hope when the tuning pass comes they nerf the Belt and not Palas in general. Another idea I had was to have the Belt give +Dmg OUTSIDE of crusade. I still hate our overreliance on a good crusade. I'm not sure if I should be happy about Convergence of Fates because you get more Crusades or unhappy because it's so good that you need it and it kinda becomes a pseudo-legendary.