Documented Enhancement Hotfix Changes

[Deleted]

Akainu's Absolute Justice

Since lava lash is fire dmg...? Lava Lash deal 30% increased dmg, while your weapons are enhanced by Flametongue.
I don't understand hailstorm in....

[Murderdoll]

Akainu's Absolute Justice

Since lava lash is fire dmg...? Lava Lash deal 30% increased dmg, while your weapons are enhanced by Flametongue.
I don't understand hailstorm in....

Its a thematic issue that we have brought up time and time again. It makes no sense from the theme of the class or the item or the spell that Frostbrand (and by extension Hailstorm because FB isnt worth using) is a requirement.

[Metaslave]

Is this a thing for other specs? That legendaries and a trait and, by extension, relics are tied to a single talent? Just makes no sense to me.

[Spirthealer]

I don't mind buffs/nerfs at all, but I seriously question the competence of anyone working for Blizzard if you have to buff/nerf Spells/Abilties by 20-50%.
You have an Alpha, Beta and a PTR to test those kind of things.
If I did my job that bad I would've been fired years ago.

The problem is in the PTR they buffed in the first round then buffed them again, then was like OW whats numbers, and removed all the buff by nerfing them back down. THEN after all that nerfed them again. After all the feedback saying this is not a good idea. THEY ignored everything been said saying they knew better.

Now the PTR is over and the cluster F they made, they are buffing them only a little to the nerfs they did. They should have never touched Ench to start with as there was nothing wrong with it. Blizzard has shown in legion they are out of touch, not willing to learn or listen. And can't do anything with out messing up balance and making a 100 bugs at which they still can't fix since release.

[ehxy]

I don't mind buffs/nerfs at all, but I seriously question the competence of anyone working for Blizzard if you have to buff/nerf Spells/Abilties by 20-50%.
You have an Alpha, Beta and a PTR to test those kind of things.
If I did my job that bad I would've been fired years ago.

Because of people who think like this.

Its a thematic issue that we have brought up time and time again. It makes no sense from the theme of the class or the item or the spell that Frostbrand (and by extension Hailstorm because FB isnt worth using) is a requirement.

[Gunwolf]

Doom Vortex buff is literally 0.3% more damage. Its still trash and doesn't fix the Traits main problem: it sometimes not even hitting the boss and resulting in zero damage overall. A wet noodle is still a wet noodle.
And no, they have no clue what they're doing. Just look at other classes. Take a look at hunters, they received a memeworthy 8% buff on all their spells... it doesn't fix their whole screwed up playstyle though, which is the MAIN PROBLEM that hunters have been complaining about since the patch hit. They've been off with balance since WoD released; MoP actually was the only addon where classes were somewhat close to each other, since then, balance has been pretty much downhill.

Well... that sucks. I figured it would still be crap, just less crappy... I guess that is kinda true. The 3yds is a pretty sick joke lol... I don't think I have seen an ability that has only 3 yds. It should be double that easily, more damage and better proc rate.

Yeh... hunters are unhappy, what else is new? I have seen an insane amount of QQ from hunters this past week... and funny thing is that Enhance is right there with them at the bottom but we aren't spamming forums or reddit to complain about it (but maybe we should? lol). I totally get their frustration.... esp when it comes to playstyle and rotation, it not feeling smooth or being too clunky without any real payoff. Fixing their core rotation will take time tho so for now they have to just be happy with basic damage buffs.

And there WILL be a balance patch after Nighthold, for sure.... so I feel pretty confident that most of the specs who are underperforming now will get some big buffs in another 2 weeks or so. Blizz did it before for specs like Elem, locks, frost dk and mage.... it will happen again. As for class balance in general, I gotta disagree. I think so far in Legion all classes have been pretty competitive with each other, esp after 7.1. Some specs shine better in raids, some in M+, and within M+ you had bursty specs doing better in low M+ and sustained shining in higher M+. Very few specs were truely just shitty. I think balance has improved with each xpac, from MoP>WoD>Legion they have gotten better at it (tho in legion stuff like legendaries unfortunetly throws stuff out of wack). I think MoP was the last remained of the "hybrid tax" and after that most classes were competitive.... people complain about much smaller differences in DPS compared to the big gaps we had to deal with in the past.

To your other question: Ascendance is still trash, Earthen Spike is still in testing as far as I remember it from discord. Sundering adds another button that is only good for Burst AoE. It's also another 20 MP that could go into another, harder hitting ability. It still has its knock-aside effect, which is pretty bad for PvE content in general if you split up a cluster of adds for example. And 40 seconds is too long of a cooldown to use it effectively in AoE.

The only good thing about this buff is, that literally everything gets buffed besides Fury of Air, which received another nerf. And Meme Vortex will still be Meme Vortex; they could buff it up to a way higher amount, to actually make it worthy of the status of being a gold trait and even then it would still need to actually hit a boss.

Cool, thanks for the info. Guess I gotta test ES on my own then? It seems like a cool ability with potential to buff stuff like overcharged lb or sundering or many of our other talents, as well as mix up the rotation some... it is kinda lame how landslide is just always the go to, agility is great but it seems like a shame to not use a fancy signature CD like Ascendance or a new ability like ES. I suppose since landslide=sustained while ascendance/ES lean more towards burst it would make sense that landslide=pve and ascend/ES=pvp, which seems to be the logic so far.... still boring tho.

For Sundering, the reason I brought it up is cause people were saying that after we get our tier, Crash storms will be the go to talent since FoA will use up too much MS that u wanna use for LL and stuff, but you won't be using CL for single target unless u have wolves out. That seems off to me.... I would think that if u spec for crash storm it would be worth it to use CL once in a while to keep the aoe down esp since you still get a MH attack that can proc SB. If not, then for single target atleast, mebbe Sundering could be an alternative since u only use it once in a while plus its also a MH attack that can proc SB so not a total waste to use a gcd on it.

Or maybe it just does shit damage regardless and wouldn't matter... I dunno lol. I have been playing around with it in M+ (if my tank is cool with the knockback) but still not sure if it stacks up to the other two talents.... prob not aoe but maybe single target.

[Darleth]

For Sundering, the reason I brought it up is cause people were saying that after we get our tier, Crash storms will be the go to talent since FoA will use up too much MS that u wanna use for LL and stuff, but you won't be using CL for single target unless u have wolves out. That seems off to me.... I would think that if u spec for crash storm it would be worth it to use CL once in a while to keep the aoe down esp since you still get a MH attack that can proc SB. If not, then for single target atleast, mebbe Sundering could be an alternative since u only use it once in a while plus its also a MH attack that can proc SB so not a total waste to use a gcd on it.

The thing is, that CS is still a slight damage increase, even if you just use it for wolves. In cleave fights it'll just get some more value. Sundering isn't really adding a whole lot to the cleave as it is on a 40 second CD. I still see sundering as a huge damage push if you have a huge amount of adds (like helya for example), but besides that? I dont know... They did a good job on decreasing the maelstrom cost on it, which was a step in the right direction, but it still has some flaws.

[Coldfire989]

I think they balance things by throwing darts at a dart board or something PTR and feedback be damned.

[CosmicGuitars]

I just picked up Akainu's today because fate is cruel. With the parses linked in this thread previously, the difference between the top HH/AS build and HH/HS would be about 12k DPS.

If I have this legendary, which synergizes well with HH and requires HS, would that make up the difference, or parse even higher?

[Imnick]

Cool, thanks for the info. Guess I gotta test ES on my own then? It seems like a cool ability with potential to buff stuff like overcharged lb or sundering or many of our other talents, as well as mix up the rotation some... it is kinda lame how landslide is just always the go to, agility is great but it seems like a shame to not use a fancy signature CD like Ascendance or a new ability like ES. I suppose since landslide=sustained while ascendance/ES lean more towards burst it would make sense that landslide=pve and ascend/ES=pvp, which seems to be the logic so far.... still boring tho.

Neither ES nor Ascendance are competitive with Landslide.
Landslide is a passive buff to all of your abilities that can have 100% uptime with no difficulty at all.
Earthen Spike is a fiddly burst ability that only effect some of your abilities, requires a GCD, and has no cleave or aoe effect.
Ascendance will never be viable in PvE unless it gets a mechanical redesign (decent for pvp though).

For Sundering, the reason I brought it up is cause people were saying that after we get our tier, Crash storms will be the go to talent since FoA will use up too much MS that u wanna use for LL and stuff, but you won't be using CL for single target unless u have wolves out. That seems off to me.... I would think that if u spec for crash storm it would be worth it to use CL once in a while to keep the aoe down esp since you still get a MH attack that can proc SB. If not, then for single target atleast, mebbe Sundering could be an alternative since u only use it once in a while plus its also a MH attack that can proc SB so not a total waste to use a gcd on it.

If you compare Sundering with Lava Lash, you'll note that Sundering has less chance to proc Stormbringer (though it does count as a main hand attack). While it also looks like it is more MS efficient, it does physical damage, which means it does not scale with mastery and is reduced by armour, meaning that LL will frequently also do more damage.
This effectively means there is no reason to ever cast Sundering on a single target, because Lava Lash is there and has no cooldown.

Sundering is competitive on aoe if you have Sephuz though.
It has the same scaling effect that CL does, in that the more targets you hit with Sundering the more likely it is to trigger Stormbringer, and as it is a stun it will also trigger Sephuz.
This makes it into a sort of slightly cheaper "cleaving" Lava Lash.

Not much simming has been done for cleave fights, which will be important because most of the fights in Nighthold have more than one target.

[Niwes]

so, lets be a little more concrete:

for all ppl that own akainu and have 0p set at the moment (ofc) -> whats the best build ?

2(HH) / x / x / 3(HS) / 2(OC) / 1(CS) / 2(LS) or what ?

[Guran]

so, lets be a little more concrete:

for all ppl that own akainu and have 0p set at the moment (ofc) -> whats the best build ?

2(HH) / x / x / 3(HS) / 2(OC) / 1(CS) / 2(LS) or what ?

Assuming LL is big enough part of the damage done on the respective sims as it is on live, should be worth getting HH/HS & CS atleast. I would actually think about ESL over OC on the 75 row, as with the buff it has gotten it might be as good a choice as the others, due to it not requiring any MW or GCD.
But you might need to seem those choices for your specific gear, as it would be very close.

[Creekz]

not requiring any MW or GCD.

Off-topic; im just curious as to what the W means in MW?

[Deleted]

As long i don't lose too much DPS by not taking FoA im glad. That ability is so damn annoying imo.

[Imnick]

Off-topic; im just curious as to what the W means in MW?

I'm assuming he meant "MS" not "MW", for Maelstrom.

[Raptar]

I'm not that much into my Enhancement Shaman yet that I understand all the Simcraft results and abbreviations et cetera, so I hope someone can answer my question: is the rotation the same as it was in 7.1? Is Fury of Air again the weaker talent in that tier?

[Darleth]

I'm not that much into my Enhancement Shaman yet that I understand all the Simcraft results and abbreviations et cetera, so I hope someone can answer my question: is the rotation the same as it was in 7.1? Is Fury of Air again the weaker talent in that tier?

Nope. FoA is still better until 4 piece. You still play with Overcharge for singletarget, and tempest for cleave.

[Guran]

I'm assuming he meant "MS" not "MW", for Maelstrom.

Meh, used to Maelstrom Weapon for some reason, can't seem to stop using MW when I'm on auto-abbreviation mode.

[Gunwolf]

The thing is, that CS is still a slight damage increase, even if you just use it for wolves. In cleave fights it'll just get some more value. Sundering isn't really adding a whole lot to the cleave as it is on a 40 second CD. I still see sundering as a huge damage push if you have a huge amount of adds (like helya for example), but besides that? I dont know... They did a good job on decreasing the maelstrom cost on it, which was a step in the right direction, but it still has some flaws.

Hmm.. I suppose that is true. That is a damn shame about Sundering then... it almost looks like the single target alternative to the aoe that CS and FoA provide, but guess its not. Atleast its still a good choice for PVP.... keeps the talent from being a total waste. It just seems so lame to use CS if we will not be using its effect very often. Maybe we will see some tweaks to the ability in future, the lower cost is good... I would love to see it be more of a narrow cone then a line to increase its aoe a bit, and if its damage is balanced so it was similar to what the dot from CS or FoA would be over 40 sec then it should be the obvious choice for single target or situations where you won't be able to sit on the enemy for long periods of time.

Neither ES nor Ascendance are competitive with Landslide.
Landslide is a passive buff to all of your abilities that can have 100% uptime with no difficulty at all.
Earthen Spike is a fiddly burst ability that only effect some of your abilities, requires a GCD, and has no cleave or aoe effect.
Ascendance will never be viable in PvE unless it gets a mechanical redesign (decent for pvp though).

Well thats a bummer.

So for Ascendance, what would u say needs tweaking? I assume more consistent SS's, and less reliance on SB procs. Maybe SS cd is reduced to 6 sec or so, or adjust in some way so SB procs are fixed to make it easier to balance.... SB procs once when you use Ascendance and then again 8 sec in. I would LOVE to get that old stormblast lightning animation back.... if not for "windstrike" or whatever they call it now, then overcharged LB with OC talent to give it a more flashy look. I can't think of any other issues besides that.

Earthen Spike... I can see potential in it, buff stuff like DW, OC'd LB's, or Sunder. Not sure what tweaks it needs other then number adjustments, which they already did.

From a talent tier design perspective, it fits what they usually do which is a passive talent, a shorter cd ability <1min, and longer cd ability >1min. Depending on what your other talents are and how busy your rotation is already, either the passive or the longer CD tend to be better options cause u can only manage so many abilities before u spend more time focusing on ur rotation then the fight.

If you compare Sundering with Lava Lash, you'll note that Sundering has less chance to proc Stormbringer (though it does count as a main hand attack). While it also looks like it is more MS efficient, it does physical damage, which means it does not scale with mastery and is reduced by armour, meaning that LL will frequently also do more damage.
This effectively means there is no reason to ever cast Sundering on a single target, because Lava Lash is there and has no cooldown.

Sundering is competitive on aoe if you have Sephuz though.
It has the same scaling effect that CL does, in that the more targets you hit with Sundering the more likely it is to trigger Stormbringer, and as it is a stun it will also trigger Sephuz.
This makes it into a sort of slightly cheaper "cleaving" Lava Lash.

Not much simming has been done for cleave fights, which will be important because most of the fights in Nighthold have more than one target.

True... I can see how LL would just be better to use esp with mastery and def if we had the 4set. I guess in that case, the utility of Sundering has to be taken into account and that only happens again in PVP, wq's, or trash for dungeons. Maybe its just not a PVE talent, or very niche in its uses.

[Deleted]

If Ascendance was 2min CD or 20 sec duration, it would surely be competitive. The last buff to it (+2 more MS regeneration during Asc) was a joke though, so that talent doesn't only suffer from bad mechanics, it's even numbers wise not competitive.