I really WANT to love Legion, but I feel like Blizzard keeps getting in their own way

[Claymore]

I feel like Blizzard has some kind of internal mandate, that they *MUST* fundamentally change every class for every single expansion. To a point, I can follow the logic -- that maybe players would be burnt-out if their rotation never changed after a decade -- but the degree to which they've done it, to the point of actually altering the identity of entire Classes, I think has finally taken its toll.

At least for me, it has.

Now, I'm not going to sit here as say "Woe is me, Blizzard has ruined the game". And, contrary to some posters I've seen, I still believe Blizzard has an incredible standard of quality for gameplay.

However, because of the constant tinkering and "re-imagining" of character classes and specs, I feel like I've reached a point where I'm just like, "I'm done. Call me when I can just PLAY the game."

For the first several years, I really struggled with WoW. The character I actually wanted to play was an Arthas-like Death Knight, but at the time, the Ret-Paladin seemed the closest analogue for that (at least Lore-wise, it made sense). Once Death Knights were finally added, I felt like I'd finally found the character for me!

Except... they kept tinkering with them. And changing their identity.

Eventually, I decided to switch to a Rogue. And I enjoyed it. Until the next expansion, because again, Blizzard kept making changes.

So, I adopted a Warlock. And the experience was great. And then, again, Blizzard changed everything.

For the entirety of Warlords of Draenor, I played but could never find a class I truly enjoyed. And now, in Legion, I dislike playing every class.

The shame is, for the first time since Wrath of the Lich King, I feel like the Lore is actually kind of important again. I'm not really feeling the direction they're taking Illidan (and the whole idea of him being a "Champion of Light", and the Holy Nathrezim basically feels like a re-tread of the Draenei), but at least it feels like the story is moving again.

I dunno. At this point I'm not sure where I stand on WoW; I love the locations I've seen (save for Stormheim; I feel like the Forsaken influence totally killed the vibe there), and I really love the idea of Class-based stories. But I just can't find a class I actually enjoy *playing*, despite having enjoyed so many in the past.

[TheFirstOnes]

Play a ret paladin...DO IT! IT CALLS TO YOU!

[Snackwiches]

I cant go back to WoW again after Heavensward. Legion was really, really mediocre.

[Nurvus]

I see it more as "Some people in Blizzard" keep getting in "some other people in Blizzard"'s way.

Looking back there are few things I'd like Blizzard to bring back as far as class or spec design are concerned. They have overall improved.

The problem with class design is just lazyness.

The ideas are there, but they are lazy.

They make sweeping changes to multiple effects at once.
The key word for their changes is over.
Almost every single time they make changes, they either:
a) overbuff or overnerf a spec or build by changing too many abilities
or b) overlook something important.
It's like they always get lost in their own train of thought.

When they buffed Retribution at the start of the expansion they affected only baseline abilities, indirectly nerfing any active dps Talents that don't buff base abilities - Talents like Execution Sentence, Justicar's Vengeance or Consecration; indirectly nerfing interactions like Justicar's Vengeance + Divine Purpose.
They keep making changes like that, often successfully making the SPEC viable but killing BUILDS.

[SL1200]

I think they change the classes too much too. It's like they need something to work on constantly. I would rather have them working on designing new dungeons. It would be just fine with me if we still had the BC hunter. I'm not sure why they had to make so many changes to the class so many times.

[Deleted]

the main problem with blizzard is (also they always lie you straight in the face claiming otherwise) that they DONT play their own games anymore - or at least not wow.

[mistahwilshire]

You're overthinking things way too much. Nothings changed in 12 years. Every patch, every raid release, etc is chaos in a lot of good, bad, and fun ways. Always has and always will be. Get over it or just leave.

[Servasus]

You're overthinking things way too much. Nothings changed in 12 years. Every patch, every raid release, etc is chaos in a lot of good, bad, and fun ways. Always has and always will be. Get over it or just leave.

His criticism is that Blizzard makes class change every patch because they think it keeps the game healthy. They have even SAID this themselves in interviews. If he disagrees with that design philosophy, then he's not overthinking anything at all.

Devs at Blizzard have this overwhelming fear that if they don't change class mechanics every expansion drastically, that people will get bored of their class over time, but the truth is that they have changed classes so much over time that people don't have time to really settle in and find something that they LOVE. Sure, a spec might be super fun and engaging in one patch, but you can't grow attached to it because inevitably everything about it will be changed within a year or so.

It's mental. Change just for change is NOT effective or healthy. Find what works and enforce it. Enhance the things around it that don't work. But to change a spec every single expansion (Look at Warlocks literally since WotLK up until now) just for the sake of change is making more people hate the game than enjoy it.

[Nihilist74]

I like the theme and atmosphere of legion. All of the classes are so boring to play. I actually miss WOD. All my favorite classes were still fun to play in WOD except for arms warrior. I really miss WOD demonology and affliction lock, beast mastery hunter, guardian druid, retribution and protection paladin from WOD.

[Talvindius]

Legion had some super hardcore class changes to attune each spec to not only the class identity but the identity of the Artifact weapons themselves.

There's a lot of Lore based changes to the game that start literally right after you hit 100 and start your 1st weapon quest. I can't imagine how you would try and identify yourself as someone who is in love with a specific paradigm of character that you can't appreciate Legion for what it has done to draw lines between class specs.

The change from WOD to Legion gameplay wise is the biggest to date, and it was done for the sake of making each spec feel individual. There's no more rollover experience between pure dps class specs, every time you switch from arcane mage to fire or Beast mastery Hunter to Marksman you have to readjust to a new and different playstyle. It makes you feel more attached to certain specs and the Artifact system makes you commit (at the beginning at least) to 1 spec and learn to master it over time before being able to switch freely.

If you feel like it's too much change then you're definitely in the minority, Legion has been extremely enjoyable so far because of how different it is from the other Expacs. There are constant dynamic changes that make the game much more deep and interesting. If you want to go back to WOD alt farming and lazy garrison missions then I guess that's cool too.

[Echo of Soul]

I've never been able to play the same character for two expansions in a row due to the sweeping changes. Kinda sucks since I usually get attached to a certain playstyle.

[Deleted]

I've never been able to play the same character for two expansions in a row due to the sweeping changes. Kinda sucks since I usually get attached to a certain playstyle.

Same, it sucks to keep changing classes because I can't get used to the class tweaks.

[WowIsDead64]

You see the changes, but you don't see global tendency. It's not about changing every class in every xpack to make them feel different - it's about gradually dumbing down game mechanics to a point, where every noob will be able to immediately start playing any class/spec without reading any guides. See the difference? First process doesn't have any direction - it's about deleting some old abilities in order to make room for some new ones, you earn with new levels. But second process - does. It's like "Yeah, some classes still need pruning, but class X (Paladins for example) had already been a little bit overpruned in previous xpack - why do we need even more pruning???".

[Azzurri]

WoW is literally the only MMO I've played that changes their classes and specs almost completely every Xpac, and there is no need for that. Yes, specs need tuning and some tweaks here and there, but changing specs for the sake of change is dumb and hurts the game in my opinion.

[Lochton]

I've never been able to play the same character for two expansions in a row due to the sweeping changes. Kinda sucks since I usually get attached to a certain playstyle.

And here I am, having been a raiding Paladin since TBC (was different class in vanilla) and well, I still am a Paladin. The few times it has felt like a need to change, I've just changed specc.

[hyphnos]

I think they change the classes too much too. It's like they need something to work on constantly. I would rather have them working on designing new dungeons. It would be just fine with me if we still had the BC hunter. I'm not sure why they had to make so many changes to the class so many times.

This right here. If they have a number one problem, it's that they change the classes too much and too often because they take as gospel that somehow learning to play your class once will get "boring". They need to wake up and realize that people don't like relearning what they already know and fundamentally altering a class so that it's unrecognizable will at best be neutral and will likely piss off a large portion of people who are playing the class currently. It's a formula for whittling down your playerbase way faster than losing anyone who is "bored" because their character plays the same from one expac to another.

[primalmatter]

I find they are not confident in their content anymore...

Legion would of been fine without the crazy rng of titanforge and legendary items. It would of been better without the time gating that is ap and research.

They keep falling into the trap of making boring tedious content rather then progressively hard content and after a week or two you realize world quests are just dailies with a new ui.

They need to go back and look at what made tbc and even wrath a success it wasn't a insane grind but a slowly building difficulty curve.

[Wildbark]

I cant go back to WoW again after Heavensward. Legion was really, really mediocre.

Funny, I thought the same thing about Heavensward :P


To me it seems like the players are getting in their own way, these days.

[Deleted]

Funny, I thought the same thing about Heavensward :P


To me it seems like the players are getting in their own way, these days.

This. If you don't enjoy the game, stop playing it and move on.

[SirCowdog]

This. If you don't enjoy the game, stop playing it and move on.

That sounds like a simple answer, but you need to view it in the correct context before telling someone to do it. You have to remember that some players have over a decade invested in the game. They've adapted to the changes over the years, and it's become their hobby. Other passtimes like sports, fishing, working out, model trains, whatever....they're pretty consistent. But with a game like WoW, Blizzard can fundamentally alter what's enjoyable about the hobby in a single patch.

Now, while that's something players really SHOULD be aware of before sinking so much time into the game, it doesn't change the fact that telling someone to just quit and move on is a pretty ill-considered thing to say. Blizzard doesn't operate in a vacuum. Without players they wouldn't have a game. And while that doesn't give players the right to dictate the direction of the game to Blizzard, they DO need to consider more carefully what they're doing with the game before making massive, sweeping changes that effect large portions of the playerbase.

And that's something I think the OP is correct about. Blizzard has not been very good, lately, about the changes their making. Blizzard has never been very good at using player feedback, but since WoD it seems like they're just off in their own little echo-chamber more than usual.