World PvP was never this miserable.

[Deleted]

Playing since BC I must say, I've never seen it this bad. Can't talk about Vanilla as I did not play it. Even at it's worst, it usually was everyone killing everyone very quickly. Now we have a similar situation as that, except some classes are also approaching semi immortality while doing so.

Now the whole "WORLD PVP DUN MATTIR!!!111oneoneelven" crowd will flock in and scream it's never fair. Sure thing but there is a difference between several people ganging up on one person, of someone killing low level people or freshly dinged chars and certain classes being effectively demi gods who can roll around laughing and spitting with their one shot macros.

The worst about this is, that they heavily promoted World PvP in this expansion. With the Underbelly and the FFA zones. What is the point of those, if everyone is effectively just quest mobs for a selected few classes?

I've seen glaive rogues, I've seen smourne warriors with pet heals, I've seen five stacks taste for blood warriors on shotting people but at least those had to build up the stacks first.

[Ryanite]

I can resonate with this. Yes Wpvp is notourisously unbalanced like you said but I do agree that for the sake of fun something needs to change. People seem to forget why there are PvP servers in the first place and when entire servers cater to the ability to Wpvp I don't see it unreasonable that even if small some attention be payed to ensure it stays fun. Being one shot is only fun if you are able to one shot back and for many classes this is not the case. Some classes have always had the toolkit to be superior in wpvp and as is the nature of wpvp you overcome that by out numbering them but when if played correctly you are almost immortal with the power to take out people in a second something is off. While some of this is exaggerated it's sad that I'm not far off at all.

Now to address some issues I'd propose.

- disable honor talents in the world.
* if there is no PvP template there is no need for honor talents which only further the issue*

- Dueling enables honor talents and the PvP template.
* something I know many people have asked for anyway but now without world honor talents
it will allow you to practice under a PvP environment correctly. *

While I understand many of the Honor talents make up for spots in which a class is lacking be it defense, offense or utility disallowing
honor talents would go a long way to curbing some of the power. As I said some classes are innately better at Wpvp it's not up to honor talents to fill that gap.

Now the only issue that may stem from this is the absurd damage. You may argue that turning off PvP talents would only allow you to die quicker which is a very valid point but it also may allow you to kill your opponent when previously they could one shot you AND be immortal. All I know is currently it's a mess and turning off honor talents is one of the easiest ways to experiment with. Maybe it gets better maybe it gets worse but it's already shit so might as well give it a go.

Now I feel a fair amount of issues also stem from the artifact weapon and when you add legendaries into that mix us as players have been given so much power that without the PvP template (which also turns off legendaries) we are left with extreme damage. With t19 on its way and stronger trinkets in NH. I'm really at a loss at how to reign in any of the damage without extreme adverse effects. Not only that but legendaries like rogues Will of Valeera -Feint heals you for 20% of your maximum health over 5 sec.- I just don't even know what you'd do about.

So we might just be stuck with being one shot but at least you might get a chance to one shot them back?

[Sforza]

It is worse than ever.
We have raid boss world pvp specs like prot warrior, blood dk, and tanks in general, and then one shot dps specs. Ret paladin is both.

[Ryanite]

It is worse than ever.
We have raid boss world pvp specs like prot warrior, blood dk, and tanks in general, and then one shot dps specs. Ret paladin is both.

Yep, ret paladin is by far the king of Wpvp with so much offense, defense and bull shit up it's sleeve you just know blizzard ain't gonna change a thing about Wpvp.

[Allenseiei]

World PvP has always been dead since TBC(when bg's offered more honor than killing players). WoW is not a sandbox, its a theme park MMO.
99% of the activities happen in instanced content and the little iteraction you had with people in the world was killed by flying.
Now to this add the fact that almost all populated servers have 99% of one faction and 1% of the other faction for the sake of convenience.

[Critical92]

I started in wotlk and have never experienced these mongoloid oneshots that we have today in legion.

With my sub rogue i can two shot every opponent except classes with a bubble skill.
Never in my time playing wow it was possible that people with the same gear can kill the other that fast. There was always some counterplay possible.

Who says wpvp is unbalanced is maybe right but it was never this bad.
Melee specs need one stun and the enemy is dead.

Wpvp was only unfair when you got attacked by more than 1 person or you were fresh maxlvl.
In Wod wpvp was the most balanced in terms of gear available, spec balance is another topic.

[Nurvus]

By introducing PvP Templates and Modifiers, Blizzard effectively committed themselves to balance pvp and pve separately and wpvp which is essentially pvpve was inevitably going to be a mess.

Templates are incompatible with world pvp.
The builds used in pvp and in pve are different.
You cannot customize template stats.
When you look at the whole picture, it simple doesn't work.
It was never going to work.
Until Blizzard starts tackling the issue with inexistant defensive scaling instead of wiping it under the rug with trash systems like templates and modifiers, the shit won't end.

[Stormcleave]

The reason WPvP is so awful this expansion, is due to the complete removal of all forms of resilience.

To give you an idea of how ridiculous PvE damage is to players; in previous expansions we were walking around with 85% damage reduction from other players by the last tier and started each expansion with roughly 65% reduction in player damage taken.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the math. Most DPS specs can dish out 2-3 million burst (some even higher). So, we can essentially can and will blow CDs and one shot each other. And, that's exactly what is happening. I'm killing you, or, you're killing me instantly.

Those are the undisputable facts as to why WPvP in Legion is so broken.

[Raldazzar]

I actually got to rank 12 back in vanilla, and have dabbled in rated arena and bg's throughout the years, though I've never taken it super serious.

I used to love world pvp. there were classes I LOVED to hunt. and others I stayed away from because even a lesser geared/skilled one could potentially ruin me.

the issue is the vocal minority. the people playing the game.. are doing just that. playing the game. whereas the people who got rekt by a rogue camping BRM on the way to MC and made them have a res timer.. they log onto the forums and tap tap tap 'OMG WTF ROGUE IS STUPID OP, NERF WORLD PVP MY FEELINGS!' and soon enough, because the people PLAYING are doing just that.. the forum fills up with likeminded incessant whining.. and it leads the devs to think.. this might be an issue.

and 10-12 years on.. this is what we have left.

everyone can stun. everyone can root. everyone can escape them too. everyone has a self heal. everyone has the same thing. because.. playing as class X and knowing Y would stomp you might cause somebody to be upset.. even though Y then get's stomped by Z. and you can walk over Z.

PVP was at it's best in MY opinion when the rock paper scissors was there. you were strong against some, weak against others. and that was OK!

[FelPlague]

World PvP has always been dead since TBC(when bg's offered more honor than killing players). WoW is not a sandbox, its a theme park MMO.
99% of the activities happen in instanced content and the little iteraction you had with people in the world was killed by flying.
Now to this add the fact that almost all populated servers have 99% of one faction and 1% of the other faction for the sake of convenience.

wolrld pvp has been dead since vanilla, when they added bgs, world pvp only happened because there was no other place to pvp

[rda]

The reason WPvP is so awful this expansion, is due to the complete removal of all forms of resilience.

To give you an idea of how ridiculous PvE damage is to players; in previous expansions we were walking around with 85% damage reduction from other players by the last tier and started each expansion with roughly 65% reduction in player damage taken.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the math. Most DPS specs can dish out 2-3 million burst (some even higher). So, we can essentially can and will blow CDs and one shot each other. And, that's exactly what is happening. I'm killing you, or, you're killing me instantly.

Those are the undisputable facts as to why WPvP in Legion is so broken.

Exactly.

World PVP was always dead, yes. It was always silly. But there were times when it was less silly and times when it was more silly. And in Legion it is perhaps the silliest it has ever been, and that's not an exaggeration, that's math.

[Deleted]

There is no world PvP and there never was.

What we did have and still do is:

1. Ganking lowbies.
2. Gank people that are questing and have no interest in your little gankfest.
3. Gank 1 guy with your 3 friends.

In my 12 years in this game I have never witnessed any decent level of world pvp, only shitty gank fests when a person is at 2% health.

So stop your moaning.

[RoKPaNda]

I don't really know that there was ever any really globally satisfying world PvP. For me, Vanilla WoW was best. But then I played a rogue and then an arms warrior so my experience was VASTLY different than say a priest or a warlock. Vanilla WoW PvP was chaos, and it wasn't fair and it wasn't balanced, but if you played certain classes it was absolutely amazing.

The first couple months of BC were pretty great too until everyone was running around in PvP gear and fights started taking ages against equally geared targets or being totally onesided against someone that wasn't in PvP gear. World PvP hasn't been enjoyable for me since that point honestly. Actually Legion is the first time in ages that I've actually engaged in World PvP.

[Raakel]

So.. out of curiosity I've hit a few Demon Hunters with my toons in open PVP just to see how I perform against them.

IT'S FUCKING HILARIOUS!

How on earth could they let this pass PTR? DK's where op at the begining too but not by this far.

It's the first expac where I feel open PVP doesn't make sense any more and I wish I could turn it off because it's pointless.

[rda]

So.. out of curiosity I've hit a few Demon Hunters with my toons in open PVP just to see how I perform against them.

IT'S FUCKING HILARIOUS!

How on earth could they let this pass PTR? DK's where op at the begining too but not by this far.

It's the first expac where I feel open PVP doesn't make sense any more and I wish I could turn it off because it's pointless.

Now you know why the PVP forums have been revolting lately. (What you saw in world PVP was nearly the same in INSTANCED arenas no longer than yesterday... and no, that's not all there is, the F***NG saga continues...)

[Deleted]

transfer to a pve realm. problem solved.

[rda]

transfer to a pve realm. problem solved.

PVP world quests.

[ComputerNerd]

World PvP is is by its nature open and free from a lot of the restrictions and apparent "balance" that instanced is meant to have.
It isn't fair, and isn't meant to be.
As frustrating as it is being on the wrong end of it, as I have been.
It isn't likely to change.
That has been made clear.

[rda]

World PvP is is by its nature open and free from a lot of the restrictions and apparent "balance" that instanced is meant to have.
It isn't fair, and isn't meant to be.
As frustrating as it is being on the wrong end of it, as I have been.
It isn't likely to change.
That has been made clear.

Does it sound like the OP was saying anything against that?

The point was that it's more stupid than ever. Due to power difference being skyhigh (yes, higher than ever before, go figure, despite all the BS talk about PVP being more "fair" before the expansion).

[Straamibuu]

I tried going from MW to BM for PvP reasons... I know I'm missing a few traits and only have 1 tanking Leg, but I don't feel nearly as tanky as some of the other tanks. Infact I feel tankier as a healer so sticking with that

As for rogues however, I just seem to die in a stun regardless of the spec I'm in. I know 882 isn't the highest iLvl by a long shot but still.. ow :[