PVP vs PVE - Why PVE limits a player

[Deleted]

Give them a week and they'll out dps you while picking their nostrils.

Give a pve player a week to learn pvp and they most likely will quit and blame "balance issues"

Let's be honest about things.

This poster alone is the reason why pvp vs pve threads are not allowed. The ragebait is real and the butthurt is strong in this one :P

[rda]

Boring bait.

[Deleted]

Yeah...compare an MMA fighter with a guy that just goes to punching bag next...

[Deleted]

And it's still a fact. Being at the top in one area doesn't automatically mean you'd be at the top in another.

Nothing is certain, it is however much more likely that a top PvP player will adapt to PvE than the other way around.

[GodEmperor]

So many bites. But I mean it's pretty obvious that PvP takes much more brainpower and twitch reflexes than PvE. It's just beating up a pre programmed NPC for gods sake. After the first time, nothing they do is surprising. Add to that, you don't even have to use your whole class kit in Raids. Thankfully, I hear CC is a little important in Mythic Dungeons, but it still doesn't come close to PvP.

Most PvErs don't even have interrupt bound while any 1500 player (The LFR Players of PvP) probably has focus interrupts and arena 1,2,3 CC Macros.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Nothing is certain, it is however much more likely that a top PvP player will adapt to PvE than the other way around.

Based on what, anecdotal evidence and WANTING it to be the case?
My anecdotal evidence says otherwise. The stigma surrounding PVE/PVP is equally big in both camps, with both camps having plenty of players that struggle with one and not the other.

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So many bites. But I mean it's pretty obvious that PvP takes much more brainpower and twitch reflexes than PvE. It's just beating up a pre programmed NPC for gods sake. After the first time, nothing they do is surprising. Add to that, you don't even have to use your whole class kit in Raids. Thankfully, I hear CC is a little important in Mythic, but it still doesn't come close to PvP.

Most PvErs don't even have interrupt bound while any 1500 player (The LFR Players of PvP) probably has focus interrupts and arena 1,2,3 CC Macros.

PVErs that don't use macros and have knowledge of their class toolkits, belong in LFR.
And no, PVP doesn't take "more brainpower", it literally requires a basic human brain and 2 functional hands. Maybe just 1 hand with macros and a gaming mouse. PVPers NEEDING to feel superior doesn't change that fact.

The PVPers I follow seem to be pretty damned capable of predicting what others will be doing, almost to the point of them being bored in certain brackets.

[tikcol]

This poster alone is the reason why pvp vs pve threads are not allowed. The ragebait is real and the butthurt is strong in this one :P

It's also something called reality. Ive done PvP and PvE together since I started playing and I can certainly discern which of both could be considered more challenging.

I could be a bad example though since I've been on the top 10% of the ladders game (most of the time 1% though) ever since they have been released.

It's getting boring and easier every season that's why I've tried some intense PvE in the past. Which resulted in more boredom, nowadays I'm your LfR casual that does PvP on the side

[Deleted]

pve is doing challenges
pvp is out gearing the enemy

[Hellshout]

So now you're saying PVP has the whole "dps" element? I thought it was all about "reacting on your feet"...
Plenty of PVPers can't handle PVE, and then they must sit and proclaim that it's because "PVP requires so much skill!!" and not because they suck at performing with their characters in an organized environment with requirements.

Plenty of people calling themselves "PVPers" never achieve anything in PVP either, which breeds this whole group of players that need to assert themselves somehow... Frustration in action.

People that show great provess in either field and even both of them also know that both kinds of content put high requirements on the players above a certain level. Most players can never hope to fulfill the requirements that high end Mythic Raiding or rated PVP demands.

Dps in PvP?! No, in PvP you just run around hide n seek from each other, you never CC someone and the "dps" it with everything you got.
I order for you to say "so now you're saying", I should have said something different before, which I didn't. I clearly stated "very good pvp player"s, so your arguments that include noobish/newbish pvp players are useless.
And then there is your last paragraph which states that it's possible for a player to achieve greatness in PvP and PvE, but I don't know where that fits, because I never claimed one can't do it.
My statement is based on my own experience, because I used to be a good to very good PvE player, but in PvP I got overwhelmed by the randomness of the fight and the buttons I never touched in PvE.

So what was the point of your response?

[Tommi]

PvE content is exciting when new content comes and people watch the race to see who wins.
PvP was dropped from MLG etc.

Case closed.

[Derecho]

Playing either at an elite level is challenging.

A blanket statement saying PvP is harder than PvE is rather crap, and at best a troll attempt. If you're comparing rated PVP to LFR, that's a rather silly comparison.

Part of PvE difficulty comes in the fact that you are coordinating a group of 20ish people. It's the working together that will ultimately determine how successful you are. Even though bosses have timers and set abilities, who gets targeted with them greatly affects how the fight will go. You're always relying on everyone doing their job.

In PvP, it's coordination on a much smaller scale. It's really dynamic on a limited scale. The top pvp'rs aren't good because they are pro at improvising - they can do that, they're good because they have experience and they know what to do and how to play in almost all situations. They are great in their universe. If they want to become great in PvE, they'd have to devote time to that. A week wouldn't quite do it.

If this wasn't a troll OP, I'd be surprised.

[Rafoel]

Quite the contrary... PvP is much easier than PvE because you are always matched with players of your own skill. When your skill is shit, which is true for majority of players, your opponents will also be shit, and while you subjectively might have a feeling of challenge, you are actually struggling against somebody whom a competent player would wipe the floor with. PvE on the other hand offers a stable level of challenge, you either rise to it or fail pathetically. In the earliest moments of raid patch hardest bosses are tuned so tight that absolutely best players, the top 0.001% struggles to get them killed. Unless you participate in WoW Arena Championships regularly, you never ever came even close to something as hard as that.

[ItachiZaku]

I pay my 60K gold just like any other normal NA player, and I'll use my abilities when and where the fuck I want.

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PvP is much easier than PvE because you are always matched with players of your own skill.

Hydra says hello. HELLO.

Always? Ha. Hail Hydra.

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In PvP, it's coordination on a much smaller scale.

Hail Hydra.

[Mad_Murdock]

So many bites. But I mean it's pretty obvious that PvP takes much more brainpower and twitch reflexes than PvE. It's just beating up a pre programmed NPC for gods sake. After the first time, nothing they do is surprising. Add to that, you don't even have to use your whole class kit in Raids. Thankfully, I hear CC is a little important in Mythic Dungeons, but it still doesn't come close to PvP.

Are we just comparing Joe Blow pver to Joe blow PvPer? At the World first level, they are trying to down content with gear requirements higher than the gear they have on. They are literally trying to beat the odds that are stacked against them. The closest you had to that in PvP was back when there were gear differences and you're fighting against someone 50-70 ilvls higher than you.

I do agree, based on personal experience, that PvPers tend to adapt pretty well at the basics of PvE faster. You can normally count on a PvPer not to stand in fire and avoid mechanics better than someone who is use to standing around looking at health bars and healing the lowest guy. On the flip side, you can also count on PvPers getting burnt out sooner when working on the same boss for a couple of weeks. In our guild, we have PvPers and they are great to bring in, in a pinch. But we've never been able to count on them being around for the long haul.

I'll also throw out that I do find playing other games like Battlefield and such often help me in PvE content in that those games tend to sharpen my reflexes and help me get some of the twitch back. I find the longer I just play wow, the worse I start to become at PvE.

[Yunaqt]

Can honestly say that PVP has never helped me improve in requirements put on the player by PVE. I've gotten better at PVP from doing PVP, nothing else.

What are you talking about!?!
I PVPed over 2k as a healer and I learned how to run away from dps around a pillar for 15mins, i'm sure there's a fight likely coming in Tomb I can finally utilize this exceptional knowledge that was bestowed upon me by the PVP gods.

[WowIsDead64]

This discussion is pointless. There are two kinds of players: "Achievers" and "Killers". "Achievers" focus on goals and "Killers" focus on process itself. As "Achiever" I can say to you, that I personally PREFER routine and predictable gameplay. I actually need to know, how much and what effort I need to invest into achieving some goal. I plan my actions according to this information. And I hate things, that prevent my plans from being realized. And I clearly understand, that there are players, who hate routine and prefer completely unpredictable gameplay. Biggest mistake, game developer can make - to mix this two kinds of players together. That's why I hate current outdoor design and think, that Blizzard are completely incompetent in designing it.

PVEers come out into the world with 100% definite purpose - to do quests. PVP/Competition - is unpredictable factor, that prevents them from doing, what they want, to a point, where game becomes completely unplayable for them. This is big mistake. How many times should I repeat, that I PLAY ON PVE SERVERS FOR REASON! R.E.A.S.O.N! If you think, that forcing me into PVP/Competition - is good idea, then you're fools. I don't want to be defenceless victim for so called PVPers. Stop using PVE content as bait for PVEs, that leads them into PVP trap. This crap doesn't work on PVE servers anyway. Make outdoor PVE content with PVE servers in mind, not PVP ones!

[Kiljaedon]

Boring bait but I guess I will bite since I am a boring fish. My cousin is a pretty potent pvp rogue and was even the 2012 Blizz semi finals but when he joins us for mythics he seems to have issues pulling his weight and just for some reason does not have the patience when trying to beat timers with frustrating keystone buffs but yet he was very skilled with his 3 man team in arena. This topic has no relevance because both are two different monsters. My raid leader is near 2400 rated on average and is a fantastic tank and mythic raid leader. Anybody can be good at pvp or pve. It depends on how much effort you are willing to put into either or both area's to achieve it.. Both has its trials and downfalls.

[Derecho]

*snip*

My comment was more directed towards rated PvP.

Anyway, take the largest PvP instances the game has to offer, like an Ashran, Isle of Conquest, or AV.

Hydra, unless I'm mistaken, organizes PvP on a larger scale where PvE is also important to winning objectives. You could argue that PvP on that scale is actually more relatable to PvE than it would be to a rated 3v3 arena, of which requires coordination on a much smaller scale, wouldn't you agree?

I could be mistaken, but I believe the OP probably wasn't referring to AV, Ashran, or Isle of Conquest - as "real pvpers" do rated arena or rated BGs, of which those larger ones aren't included.

[HumbleDuck]

Yea, I can argue that PvP is essentially the same as what you described as a PvE encounter. However both descriptions would be wrong.
Both PvP and PvE propose challenge, in my mind however, PvE in wow is much more polished and thought through, so it takes more time to master a fight compaired to rather unbalanced and underdeveloped PvP side of things.

[Hendawgg]

Threads like these are where players show their ass and how inexperienced they are at both PvP and PvE. I consider myself both a PvPer and PvEer

The bottom line is this: Good players will excel at both. Good players appreciate the aspects of both, the challenges of both because good players have played both at a high level.

Comments like these show how stupid you are: "PvE is static, it's the same thing over and over again". Spoken like someone who doesn't Mythic Raid. PvE mechanics are very RNG based. If you think PvE is static, you're an idiot and just showed us you don't even understand the core concepts behind most PvE fights.

"PvE doesn't require interrupts" Another dumb comment. Most boss fights with ads require interrupts. Not just interrupts, but chained interrupts with a pre-determined order. If you don't know that, it's very clear that you're talking out of your ass.

Bad players are obvious, because they make comments that are pure hyperbole. My guild is 7/7M EN, 1800ish in RBG's (we just barely started doing them) and we have several 2K+ rated players.

In PvP, you stack comps. I can't remember the last time i played an RBG that didn't have two monk heals, two DH's, boomkins and affli locks. The best teams simply stack the most OP comps. PvP can be gamed, it doesn't always come down to skill like PvPers want to believe.


Fact is, good players will excel at both PvE and PvP. They're both different and equally challenging if played at a competitive level. Bad players just act like they know what they're talking about while making dumb hyperbole comments and don't even realize how they've outed themselves.